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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 1780
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
sbrown wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I've wanted to move back to a 4-3 for a while, especially with the recent success of the hybrid safety/olb role in various spots. We don't have a NT, so having Armstead/Buckner inside, and Lynch and another DE on the outside seems like a solid base line. It would eliminate one extra need (NT) from the books. Either way we'll likely need linebacker/pass rush help.

But, this is a dream we revisit every offseason and it doesn't seem that it will ever happen. Although - this season is when it probably has the best chance with new leadership across the board.


Armstead/Buckner aren't really good fits inside in a 4-3


I actually think both can play outside, They can crowd passing lanes with their height. Buck has shown he has pass rush moves. WE could have Dial play inside. This would also drive someone like Demarcus Walker up the draft boards for us as a DT.

Lynch could also play DE and move Buck inside, and I would keep Brooks as SLB who can blitz.


I actually agree with this

my question is who would be our LB/Safety hybrid in this scheme? are they on the roster currently or would we have to draft this guy?


We dont have to use that position.

Arik,Buck,Dial,Lynch

Brooks,bowman,ray ray

brock, reid, ward, robinson

I like ward at safety more than Tart, this gives us a solid pass rushing defense as well as a rangy secondary.


I'm sorry but that's a horrible front seven. AA and Defo inside is the only viable option upfront. And Bowman in the middle makes sense but the other positions need to be upgraded ASAP, especially the edges. In no way is AA a DE. That's one of the reason O'Neil was so horrible because he tried to do things like that I it was a utter fail.

I do like Ward@FS. I still say that is his best fit as a pro. His range could be very useful and sliding Reid down to SS could help us cover the hashes much better than in recent years. Really want to see what Redmon can do in the slot next year also.
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sbrown


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
sbrown wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I've wanted to move back to a 4-3 for a while, especially with the recent success of the hybrid safety/olb role in various spots. We don't have a NT, so having Armstead/Buckner inside, and Lynch and another DE on the outside seems like a solid base line. It would eliminate one extra need (NT) from the books. Either way we'll likely need linebacker/pass rush help.

But, this is a dream we revisit every offseason and it doesn't seem that it will ever happen. Although - this season is when it probably has the best chance with new leadership across the board.


Armstead/Buckner aren't really good fits inside in a 4-3


I actually think both can play outside, They can crowd passing lanes with their height. Buck has shown he has pass rush moves. WE could have Dial play inside. This would also drive someone like Demarcus Walker up the draft boards for us as a DT.

Lynch could also play DE and move Buck inside, and I would keep Brooks as SLB who can blitz.


I actually agree with this

my question is who would be our LB/Safety hybrid in this scheme? are they on the roster currently or would we have to draft this guy?


We dont have to use that position.

Arik,Buck,Dial,Lynch

Brooks,bowman,ray ray

brock, reid, ward, robinson

I like ward at safety more than Tart, this gives us a solid pass rushing defense as well as a rangy secondary.


I'm sorry but that's a horrible front seven. AA and Defo inside is the only viable option upfront. And Bowman in the middle makes sense but the other positions need to be upgraded ASAP, especially the edges. In no way is AA a DE. That's one of the reason O'Neil was so horrible because he tried to do things like that I it was a utter fail.

I do like Ward@FS. I still say that is his best fit as a pro. His range could be very useful and sliding Reid down to SS could help us cover the hashes much better than in recent years. Really want to see what Redmon can do in the slot next year also.


But that is what we have CURRENTLY. obviously we need upgrades at several positions.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
sbrown wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I've wanted to move back to a 4-3 for a while, especially with the recent success of the hybrid safety/olb role in various spots. We don't have a NT, so having Armstead/Buckner inside, and Lynch and another DE on the outside seems like a solid base line. It would eliminate one extra need (NT) from the books. Either way we'll likely need linebacker/pass rush help.

But, this is a dream we revisit every offseason and it doesn't seem that it will ever happen. Although - this season is when it probably has the best chance with new leadership across the board.


Armstead/Buckner aren't really good fits inside in a 4-3


I actually think both can play outside, They can crowd passing lanes with their height. Buck has shown he has pass rush moves. WE could have Dial play inside. This would also drive someone like Demarcus Walker up the draft boards for us as a DT.

Lynch could also play DE and move Buck inside, and I would keep Brooks as SLB who can blitz.


I actually agree with this

my question is who would be our LB/Safety hybrid in this scheme? are they on the roster currently or would we have to draft this guy?


We dont have to use that position.

Arik,Buck,Dial,Lynch

Brooks,bowman,ray ray

brock, reid, ward, robinson

I like ward at safety more than Tart, this gives us a solid pass rushing defense as well as a rangy secondary.


I'm sorry but that's a horrible front seven. AA and Defo inside is the only viable option upfront. And Bowman in the middle makes sense but the other positions need to be upgraded ASAP, especially the edges. In no way is AA a DE. That's one of the reason O'Neil was so horrible because he tried to do things like that I it was a utter fail.

I do like Ward@FS. I still say that is his best fit as a pro. His range could be very useful and sliding Reid down to SS could help us cover the hashes much better than in recent years. Really want to see what Redmon can do in the slot next year also.


But that is what we have CURRENTLY. obviously we need upgrades at several positions.


What I'm saying is I expect the new GM to much more active in free agency so there will be some upgrades available because what we have currently isn't going to cut it. Two FA's that I would defintely be in on are Chandler Jones and Dontari Poe. KC can't afford Poe so he'll probably hit the market. If we stick with the 3-4, he'd be the perfect NT to compliment AA and DeFo and help with their development. Jones on at ROLB instantly helps the pass-rush. You go after those two, draft a couple of ILBs and the front seven could change overnight, for the better.

Guys like Dial and Armstrong realistically, are back-up type of talents. They should only be starting in case of injury. Dial@NT is doable but I would prefer a much more stout body there, like a Poe. But that's his only viable position currently IMO. He's a liability@DE. Minimal push as a interior rusher and too inconsistent against the run.
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AustrianNiner


Joined: 28 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
sbrown wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
sbrown wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I've wanted to move back to a 4-3 for a while, especially with the recent success of the hybrid safety/olb role in various spots. We don't have a NT, so having Armstead/Buckner inside, and Lynch and another DE on the outside seems like a solid base line. It would eliminate one extra need (NT) from the books. Either way we'll likely need linebacker/pass rush help.

But, this is a dream we revisit every offseason and it doesn't seem that it will ever happen. Although - this season is when it probably has the best chance with new leadership across the board.


Armstead/Buckner aren't really good fits inside in a 4-3


I actually think both can play outside, They can crowd passing lanes with their height. Buck has shown he has pass rush moves. WE could have Dial play inside. This would also drive someone like Demarcus Walker up the draft boards for us as a DT.

Lynch could also play DE and move Buck inside, and I would keep Brooks as SLB who can blitz.


I actually agree with this

my question is who would be our LB/Safety hybrid in this scheme? are they on the roster currently or would we have to draft this guy?


We dont have to use that position.

Arik,Buck,Dial,Lynch

Brooks,bowman,ray ray

brock, reid, ward, robinson

I like ward at safety more than Tart, this gives us a solid pass rushing defense as well as a rangy secondary.


I'm sorry but that's a horrible front seven. AA and Defo inside is the only viable option upfront. And Bowman in the middle makes sense but the other positions need to be upgraded ASAP, especially the edges. In no way is AA a DE. That's one of the reason O'Neil was so horrible because he tried to do things like that I it was a utter fail.

I do like Ward@FS. I still say that is his best fit as a pro. His range could be very useful and sliding Reid down to SS could help us cover the hashes much better than in recent years. Really want to see what Redmon can do in the slot next year also.


But that is what we have CURRENTLY. obviously we need upgrades at several positions.


What I'm saying is I expect the new GM to much more active in free agency so there will be some upgrades available because what we have currently isn't going to cut it. Two FA's that I would defintely be in on are Chandler Jones and Dontari Poe. KC can't afford Poe so he'll probably hit the market. If we stick with the 3-4, he'd be the perfect NT to compliment AA and DeFo and help with their development. Jones on at ROLB instantly helps the pass-rush. You go after those two, draft a couple of ILBs and the front seven could change overnight, for the better.

Guys like Dial and Armstrong realistically, are back-up type of talents. They should only be starting in case of injury. Dial@NT is doable but I would prefer a much more stout body there, like a Poe. But that's his only viable position currently IMO. He's a liability@DE. Minimal push as a interior rusher and too inconsistent against the run.


Chandler Jones will be franchise tagged if they can't agree on a new long term deal according to Bruce Arians so he won't be available.

Not sure about a possible scheme change, we'll need some new personnel either way. But we'll see who the new DC is and whether that's a real possibility.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Cards franchise Jones, then you go after Sheard in NE. Like I said, we'll have options if we are willing to spend the money.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really sure how Sheard would give us something we don't already have. Seems like it would just be another body eating up money. I'd have been great with Chandler Jones had he been a free agent. Otherwise, why bother? Would much rather look to the draft for a pass-rusher.

Would love Poe, though. Gotta wonder why any free agent would want to come here, however.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Nick Perry going to hit free agency? 11 sacks this year. Better than Sheard.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Not really sure how Sheard would give us something we don't already have. Seems like it would just be another body eating up money. I'd have been great with Chandler Jones had he been a free agent. Otherwise, why bother? Would much rather look to the draft for a pass-rusher.

Would love Poe, though. Gotta wonder why any free agent would want to come here, however.


Sheard is very underated. He spilts time with guys like Ninkovich and Long so his stats aren't going to jump out at you but everytime I watch the Pats he always impresses me with how many plays his disrupts, even though he may not always get the stat. I think he would be a definite upgrade over Brooks or anyone else we could trot out@ROLB.

And as to answer your question, its $$$, plain and simple. Guys coming off rookie deals and want to cash in. We have to money to spend so if guys are looking out for their financial well being, they will listen. Regardless of how much football sense it makes.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
sbrown wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
sbrown wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
sbrown wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
I've wanted to move back to a 4-3 for a while, especially with the recent success of the hybrid safety/olb role in various spots. We don't have a NT, so having Armstead/Buckner inside, and Lynch and another DE on the outside seems like a solid base line. It would eliminate one extra need (NT) from the books. Either way we'll likely need linebacker/pass rush help.

But, this is a dream we revisit every offseason and it doesn't seem that it will ever happen. Although - this season is when it probably has the best chance with new leadership across the board.


Armstead/Buckner aren't really good fits inside in a 4-3


I actually think both can play outside, They can crowd passing lanes with their height. Buck has shown he has pass rush moves. WE could have Dial play inside. This would also drive someone like Demarcus Walker up the draft boards for us as a DT.

Lynch could also play DE and move Buck inside, and I would keep Brooks as SLB who can blitz.


I actually agree with this

my question is who would be our LB/Safety hybrid in this scheme? are they on the roster currently or would we have to draft this guy?


We dont have to use that position.

Arik,Buck,Dial,Lynch

Brooks,bowman,ray ray

brock, reid, ward, robinson

I like ward at safety more than Tart, this gives us a solid pass rushing defense as well as a rangy secondary.


I'm sorry but that's a horrible front seven. AA and Defo inside is the only viable option upfront. And Bowman in the middle makes sense but the other positions need to be upgraded ASAP, especially the edges. In no way is AA a DE. That's one of the reason O'Neil was so horrible because he tried to do things like that I it was a utter fail.

I do like Ward@FS. I still say that is his best fit as a pro. His range could be very useful and sliding Reid down to SS could help us cover the hashes much better than in recent years. Really want to see what Redmon can do in the slot next year also.


But that is what we have CURRENTLY. obviously we need upgrades at several positions.


What I'm saying is I expect the new GM to much more active in free agency so there will be some upgrades available because what we have currently isn't going to cut it. Two FA's that I would defintely be in on are Chandler Jones and Dontari Poe. KC can't afford Poe so he'll probably hit the market. If we stick with the 3-4, he'd be the perfect NT to compliment AA and DeFo and help with their development. Jones on at ROLB instantly helps the pass-rush. You go after those two, draft a couple of ILBs and the front seven could change overnight, for the better.

Guys like Dial and Armstrong realistically, are back-up type of talents. They should only be starting in case of injury. Dial@NT is doable but I would prefer a much more stout body there, like a Poe. But that's his only viable position currently IMO. He's a liability@DE. Minimal push as a interior rusher and too inconsistent against the run.


Don't be so sure about the Chiefs not affording Poe. They are about 5 million under right now, but that counts the ridiculous Nick Foles cap his of 10+m, which he's obviously not going to see. I don't expect Charles to be back either given the success of Ware and West in the backfield. Charles has no dead money and a 7m hit, so right there with those 2, they're up an extra 17 million. Dustin Colquitt would save another 4 million and Anthony Sherman 1.8. Tyler Bray is 1.2 million in savings. They'd have to get creative with the first year of either Berry's or Poe's deal, but it's definitely not impossible to keep them both. If they feel that strongly about Poe going forward, they'll find a way to make that happen.

I'm not sure who's contract you would use as comparison for a possible deal on Poe, but for an example, lets say he gets a Fletcher Cox deal (yea, I'm aware that they are not exactly the same here). Well, Cox's deal, which averages 17.1 million per season, only had a cap hit of 6.5 this year and 9.4 next year. They could easily structure a contract similar to this with this kind of initial cap hit and still sign Berry (under my cuts, they'd have about 29 million in space, 6 million for draft leaves 23 million. If the first year cap his on poe is 7 million, that leaves them 16 million. I Find it unlikely that Berry's initial cap hit would quite be that large - even if they tag him again, his tag hit is less than 13m).
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Last edited by Forge on Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
Not really sure how Sheard would give us something we don't already have. Seems like it would just be another body eating up money. I'd have been great with Chandler Jones had he been a free agent. Otherwise, why bother? Would much rather look to the draft for a pass-rusher.

Would love Poe, though. Gotta wonder why any free agent would want to come here, however.


Sheard is very underated. He spilts time with guys like Ninkovich and Long so his stats aren't going to jump out at you but everytime I watch the Pats he always impresses me with how many plays his disrupts, even though he may not always get the stat. I think he would be a definite upgrade over Brooks or anyone else we could trot out@ROLB.

And as to answer your question, its $$$, plain and simple. Guys coming off rookie deals and want to cash in. We have to money to spend so if guys are looking out for their financial well being, they will listen. Regardless of how much football sense it makes.


Right, but we're not the only franchise with money (over 1/3 of the league has more than $50 million in cap space entering 2017), but we are one of the few without direction. That will change with a GM/HC in place, but possibly not for the better. Players take that sort of thing into consideration.

And sure Sheard would be an improvement over Brooks, but if we're going to throw money at someone to be an improvement, they better be a large enough improvement to make a difference. This seems to me like spending money on a free agent just to spend it, and that leads teams (even ones once with vast cap space) into trouble.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I favor Rudy's approach ... doesn't matter to me all that much. Just put guys in a position where they can best use their skills. Arik and Buckner look very promising. Don't shoehorn them into a system that doesn't fit them. Figure out how their skills can be best utilized, and then scheme for that.
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John232


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Good point about 1/3 of the league having over 50 million in cap. But on top of a lot those teams having a direction, a lot of those teams (raiders, Titans, Bears) do actually have some good young players they're going to have to pay out big for.

Not only do we have a ton of room and no "direction", we really have no Player outside of Buckner, Ward and Robinson that we should be holding out for long term. There is no impending 100+ million dollar contract like Mariota, Carr or Mack.

Unless we go Buckwild and sign 3 or 4 big names, It will be hard to propel this team into Cap Hell from this off-season. Obviously it still has to be the right guy, but I will give the 49ers FO credit, they're generally speaking REALLY good about signing guys to team friendly deals and staggering their cap hits over the course of their contract. IIRC, we saw Willis, Brooks and Then Bow all have a good portion of their cap come in one year.



I think what I dread above all else is committing to a FA QB long term, or trading for Jimmy G and paying out a ridiculous amount for basically a retread or unproven player. Kirk Cousins scares the hell out of me for that reason too.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know anything about Takkarist McKinley. I keep seeing his name at bottom of the first in mocks so I guess that means he might be there for our second. This year he had 61 tackles, 18 for a loss plus 10 sacks. That's a pretty productive season.

Any thoughts on Taco Charlton? He's got a build a little like Aldon to me at least. Had a great bowl game.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Anyone know anything about Takkarist McKinley. I keep seeing his name at bottom of the first in mocks so I guess that means he might be there for our second. This year he had 61 tackles, 18 for a loss plus 10 sacks. That's a pretty productive season.

Any thoughts on Taco Charlton? He's got a build a little like Aldon to me at least. Had a great bowl game.



He played great. I didn't realize he was as big as he is. I thought he must have been undersized to be so quick off the snap and run like that. But 6'6" 270lbs? Damn, that's impressive.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Anyone know anything about Takkarist McKinley. I keep seeing his name at bottom of the first in mocks so I guess that means he might be there for our second. This year he had 61 tackles, 18 for a loss plus 10 sacks. That's a pretty productive season.

Any thoughts on Taco Charlton? He's got a build a little like Aldon to me at least. Had a great bowl game.


Mkinley shows up during ghr games. I didnt realize those numbers either. Taco is a playmaker as well. In thr fsu gsme he was very imspressive off the line. Held his own and showed good burst
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