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ohiogenius


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 5466
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How has Malik Jackson been for you guys so far this year?
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BwickBrownie wrote:
cortes02 wrote:
Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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AngryPirate


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 1212
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This team looks bad on the surface but all they are really missing is an accurate qb. Draft should be QB, OL, RB, DE those are my positions of need. AJ McCarron would be a nice target in a trade
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiogenius wrote:
How has Malik Jackson been for you guys so far this year?


Good. Has brought a lot of pressure inside and has been solid in the run game.
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngryPirate wrote:
This team looks bad on the surface but all they are really missing is an accurate qb. Draft should be QB, OL, RB, DE those are my positions of need. AJ McCarron would be a nice target in a trade


We'll be fine once we get a competent coaching staff and as you mentioned, a more accurate QB (expecting that to be Bortles once his mechanics get worked on).
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like Fowler is going to work with Von Miller this offseason.
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Jaguarfan


Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngryPirate wrote:
AJ McCarron would be a nice target in a trade

Laughing
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/BrentASJax/status/816141122049347585

I seriously love Beachum. I hope next year he's fully healthy and ready to go get it. He clearly wasn't most of this season. Saw multiple times where he went down and legit couldn't get back up until an OL or Blake came over and gave him a hand.

This is the type of mindset we need. I also love how he totally roasted Gus multiple times.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been doing some digging and talking to some people in the know. And these are the guys that I found that Dave just basically "took Tony's word" for the picks rather than trusting his evaluations over the metrics.

Allen Robinson
Telvin Smith
Brandon Linder
Yannick Ngakoue
Allen Hurns
Chris Smith
Josh Evans

Apparently Dave didn't want any of them, but got talked into them.

And I'm getting mixed info that Ramsey and Jack were both heavily influenced by Tony, but not enough to say that they weren't Dave's decisions.

Also seen some suggestions that Tony was the one who most wanted the trade down with Atlanta and wanted ODB, Carr and Robinson in the first two rounds instead of Bortles, Lee and Robinson. And some thoughts that he wanted Ansah instead of Joeckel. And also the aforementioned Beasley over Fowler.

So yeah... I can't prove or verify all of this (except Beasley), but this is pretty damning for Dave if true.
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
So I've been doing some digging and talking to some people in the know. And these are the guys that I found that Dave just basically "took Tony's word" for the picks rather than trusting his evaluations over the metrics.

Allen Robinson
Telvin Smith
Brandon Linder
Yannick Ngakoue
Allen Hurns
Chris Smith
Josh Evans

Apparently Dave didn't want any of them, but got talked into them.

And I'm getting mixed info that Ramsey and Jack were both heavily influenced by Tony, but not enough to say that they weren't Dave's decisions.

Also seen some suggestions that Tony was the one who most wanted the trade down with Atlanta and wanted ODB, Carr and Robinson in the first two rounds instead of Bortles, Lee and Robinson. And some thoughts that he wanted Ansah instead of Joeckel. And also the aforementioned Beasley over Fowler.

So yeah... I can't prove or verify all of this (except Beasley), but this is pretty damning for Dave if true.


If this was seriously the case and the guys he liked instead of these weren't hits looking back, why would he still be employed? If that many of our young key pieces were guys Caldwell had no interest in but did so just because of Tony, Shad would have to know this. So yeah, it's a little hard to totally believe.

As for Ramsey, I doubt he needed to be persuaded. The guy was a top 3 talent by most and after Bosa is off the board was a clear need on top of being a top talent whereas Buckner (who he also liked and has been a monster) would have played similar to Malik and Alualu/Odrick, a less needed position.

If it is true, as long as Tony sticks around we should be fine. Laughing
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
If this was seriously the case and the guys he liked instead of these weren't hits looking back, why would he still be employed? If that many of our young key pieces were guys Caldwell had no interest in but did so just because of Tony, Shad would have to know this. So yeah, it's a little hard to totally believe.
It came from a couple sources, as well as some stuff I've gathered through research of articles and stuff. I know all of those guys mentioned were analytics guys, and the sources suggest that Tony led the charge on them. I get why it's hard to believe, but it isn't just one person saying it. I can't verify it to be 100% true, but I think there's more than just smoke.

There was a suggestion I heard back right after the Joeckel draft that came across as interesting, but I didn't think too much of it at the time. After we picked Joeckel, Tony released a ton a data about pressure on formations, against lines of sight and against specific positions. At the time, it was used to justify why having two good OTs was a really good idea with Monroe and Joeckel. I felt it came across a little weird to present us all this data with how pass rushing LEs can wreak havoc on a RT, but to then trot out Red Bryant as our LE, but I was hyped up for that Seattle defense (which had already moved away from the Bryant types, but whatever). And then it became a little more weird when after 4 weeks into that season, they traded away Monroe and went to the one supposed to be good OT just on the one side for a while. I saw it suggested that the data that Tony released was only co-opted to help soften the blow of the backlash from the fanbase for taking an OT. They suggested that the data was originally given to Dave and Gus to attempt to talk them out of the elephant end 5T and instead opt for going after Ansah to play LE opposite Clemons.

As for why Shad wouldn't fire Dave? Some of the picks were Gus (I know 100% that Yeldon was Gus's guy, and probably some of the Senior Bowl guys). And some of them Shad may just be giving him time to see how they develop under another coach. Or giving Dave a year in general without Gus to see how it goes. Or Tony isn't taking credit for all of them.

Maybe this is why there's so much talk about Coughlin as an advisor.

Would also kind explain why our success rate is so much higher in the middle rounds than at the top; a more willingness to take chances on analytics guys and guys that Dave isn't completely sold on.

There's no smoking gun here, but there's a decent amount of smoke.

Quote:
As for Ramsey, I doubt he needed to be persuaded. The guy was a top 3 talent by most and after Bosa is off the board was a clear need on top of being a top talent whereas Buckner (who he also liked and has been a monster) would have played similar to Malik and Alualu/Odrick, a less needed position.
Without getting into specifics of what I was told about the situation, this is basically why I can't say that they weren't Dave's decisions.

Quote:
If it is true, as long as Tony sticks around we should be fine. Laughing
Hope so.
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
If this was seriously the case and the guys he liked instead of these weren't hits looking back, why would he still be employed? If that many of our young key pieces were guys Caldwell had no interest in but did so just because of Tony, Shad would have to know this. So yeah, it's a little hard to totally believe.
It came from a couple sources, as well as some stuff I've gathered through research of articles and stuff. I know all of those guys mentioned were analytics guys, and the sources suggest that Tony led the charge on them. I get why it's hard to believe, but it isn't just one person saying it. I can't verify it to be 100% true, but I think there's more than just smoke.

There was a suggestion I heard back right after the Joeckel draft that came across as interesting, but I didn't think too much of it at the time. After we picked Joeckel, Tony released a ton a data about pressure on formations, against lines of sight and against specific positions. At the time, it was used to justify why having two good OTs was a really good idea with Monroe and Joeckel. I felt it came across a little weird to present us all this data with how pass rushing LEs can wreak havoc on a RT, but to then trot out Red Bryant as our LE, but I was hyped up for that Seattle defense (which had already moved away from the Bryant types, but whatever). And then it became a little more weird when after 4 weeks into that season, they traded away Monroe and went to the one supposed to be good OT just on the one side for a while. I saw it suggested that the data that Tony released was only co-opted to help soften the blow of the backlash from the fanbase for taking an OT. They suggested that the data was originally given to Dave and Gus to attempt to talk them out of the elephant end 5T and instead opt for going after Ansah to play LE opposite Clemons.

As for why Shad wouldn't fire Dave? Some of the picks were Gus (I know 100% that Yeldon was Gus's guy, and probably some of the Senior Bowl guys). And some of them Shad may just be giving him time to see how they develop under another coach. Or giving Dave a year in general without Gus to see how it goes. Or Tony isn't taking credit for all of them.

Maybe this is why there's so much talk about Coughlin as an advisor.

Would also kind explain why our success rate is so much higher in the middle rounds than at the top; a more willingness to take chances on analytics guys and guys that Dave isn't completely sold on.

There's no smoking gun here, but there's a decent amount of smoke.

Quote:
As for Ramsey, I doubt he needed to be persuaded. The guy was a top 3 talent by most and after Bosa is off the board was a clear need on top of being a top talent whereas Buckner (who he also liked and has been a monster) would have played similar to Malik and Alualu/Odrick, a less needed position.
Without getting into specifics of what I was told about the situation, this is basically why I can't say that they weren't Dave's decisions.

Quote:
If it is true, as long as Tony sticks around we should be fine. Laughing
Hope so.



It's all just so hard to buy. I mean, if such an overwhelming bulk of the "good picks" are coming from Tony basically strongarming Dave, a bunch of other apparent mis-picks are all Dave, and a bunch of the other picks are "Gus guys". How many guys is Dave even responsible for? Especially how many guys that are worth keeping him around for? A ton of the veteran FA stuff has been pretty spotty too, so it surely wouldn't be that, would it?


It just seems so farfetched. It basically paints Caldwell as some bumbling goof floundering around making bad picks and blowing capspace left right and center while Tony bats 100%. Hard to believe he'd be kept around with this kind of leash if that was really the case...
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
It just seems so farfetched. It basically paints Caldwell as some bumbling goof floundering around making bad picks and blowing capspace left right and center while Tony bats 100%. Hard to believe he'd be kept around with this kind of leash if that was really the case...
I mean even if we assume that all of the Tony picks are Dave, he still isn't that far from some bumbling goof floundering around making bad picks and blowing capspace left right and center.

I understand it's hard to trust it. But I do trust the people I got the info from. Take that for what it's worth.
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to DiRocco he expects us to cut ties with Julius this offseason.

Not sure how I feel about it. They must either like someone in the draft or have high hopes for Koyack. I think under a different scheme Julius could be a lot more effective. Theres no doubt he has looked very, very slow though.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nvm, guess rotoworld just put words in his mouth and it was actually just a prediction he made about one possible cut.

Think itll depend on who the OC is and if they think they can get him back on track id imagine.
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
According to DiRocco he expects us to cut ties with Julius this offseason.

Not sure how I feel about it. They must either like someone in the draft or have high hopes for Koyack. I think under a different scheme Julius could be a lot more effective. Theres no doubt he has looked very, very slow though.



Would really come down to whether the new HC and/or OC think they can inspire Julius to give a crap or not. It wasn't just that he looked "slow" last year, it's that he looked like he straight up just didn't care. Disinterested.

Plus there are the injuries. Whether there's anything to the accusations of "milking injuries" and being a bit soft...or whether he simply is just that injury prone - either way, it's a liability.


From the looks of it, the dead cap wouldn't even be all that crippling if they did cut him at this point anyway. So if they moved on, it wouldn't surprise me. Though i'd wager if they do cut him loose, it'll be largely an attitude thing - just not wanting any more "Florida Vacation" types around.

It's not like half a season with 30 grabs for 280 yards is irreplaceable or anything, if that's all we can realistically count on him for. Laughing
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