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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19693
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Agreed big, this is a multi-year rebuild and we need bodies. Some of those guys might be gone thanks to improved competition, but for the most part they'll be needed. We have at least 10 picks in the upcoming draft (maybe 11, but not sure on Derek Carrier's trade and what was needed for that to go through). Assuming we don't do anything that nets us more draft picks, we'll need 5-7 free agents coming in to fill the team's roster (that 5-7 includes potential guys that we might re-sign). We definitely have enough to replenish the team and get a boost in talent, but not enough to start clearing house.

If we can get two impact free agents, five roster fillers (think anywhere from Craig Dahl to Donte Whitner), and future starters with our first three picks, that would be a great offseason. Can't imagine we'll be very good, but we could have a lot more in place (maybe a pass-rush, and some skill players worth a damn).


That's a reasonable goal. Somehow, some way we need to plan to get a promising QB on board in the next couple of years too. Otherwise we're bumping up against the end of rookie contracts for guys we draft this year before a new QB will be experienced enough to take advantage of having them here. That's one of the big pluses for Jimmie G in my mind. I assume he's been getting good teaching and experience at NE and would be ready to play right from the start - hopefully at a high level, if he came here.

I kind of like the idea someone else mentioned somewhere in one of these threads of getting Jimmie G and also adding a rookie in the mid rounds this year. That gives us two chances that one of them turns into a stud, or at least that one of them is an adequate backup for the other.
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77-Style


Joined: 14 Dec 2015
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Agreed Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3147
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.


Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


harris fumbled twice this season hyde fumbled 5 times by your logic he we should cut Hyde.
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3147
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


still top 10 in the league for punts inside the 20 a bad second half of the season is not a reason to cut a really serviceable punter...especially since he was used so often because of our deplorable offense...fatigue factors in like I said emotion not logic is driving your names.
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3147
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


so by this logic because a guy barely sees the field we should just jettison them because they suck and MUST go? Why can't it be the ineptitude of the coaching staff not using them right or not evaluating the talent on the team properly?
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3147
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


because on a team that severely depleted for talent at almost every position. you need a veteran presence in the secondary that is "OK" than nobody back there who can guide the very young secondary.
at this point we don't cut "just OK" players because we actually NEED them to begin to build on.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 17036
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


still top 10 in the league for punts inside the 20 a bad second half of the season is not a reason to cut a really serviceable punter...especially since he was used so often because of our deplorable offense...fatigue factors in like I said emotion not logic is driving your names.



Top 10 in punts inside 20, but top 1 in total attempts, he was bound to get a few inside 20, no? 28% of his punts were downed inside 20, compared to 52% for Hekker, who didn't really benefit from a hot offense driving the ball downfield for him. 50% for Colquitt, 53% for Bryan Anger, 46 for Koch. I know our awful offense has an impact on that, but I feel Pinion was well below average. In fact, his total average was good for 24th, I think, and his net average 20th. And it's not like he progressed that much from his rookie season. 0.4 yards per attempt better on both his total average and net, fewer punts inside 20 on more attempts, and more return yards on lesser returns. And just on the eye test, he just looks awful out there, he seems to shank one every game. And as I said, he just doesn't seem to progress either. Drafting a punter in the fifth, you have to expect him to be special, especially if you're going to trade your special punter to make room for him and his prowess. Look at guys like Koch, Lee and McAfee, and they truly work at their craft. They have a type of punt for every game situation. End over end, spiral, aiming, hang time, etc. They have strategies when punting the ball, and those benefit their stats, and ultimately benefits their team's field position. With Pinion, so far, I feel lucky when the ball passes midfield, because as weird as it sounds, it's far from guaranteed with him. Maybe he'll improve next year. Maybe a new ST coach will emphasize certain abilities and strategies with him, and maybe the coverage will improve to the point where his stats will improve as well. But so far, I wouldn't call him serviceable. I call him a disappointment. Then again, I wouldn't just cut him because he disappoints me. If we can bring in someone to compete with him, it can only be good for him.
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AustrianNiner


Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Posts: 199
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not a big fan of all CB's that are not named Robinson or Ward, I wouldn't cut them either. Especially Brock, who is still decent. He is out of contract after next season, that's when he can leave(and maybe Johnson and Reaser too), but right now we should care about all the other wholes that are there without cutting anyone. I mean, if the new HC/GM decide to cut some of those mentioned and can find someone better I certainly won't complain, but priority should be elsewhere.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


so by this logic because a guy barely sees the field we should just jettison them because they suck and MUST go? Why can't it be the ineptitude of the coaching staff not using them right or not evaluating the talent on the team properly?



Totally agree with you. The year before Harbaugh got here, Brooks and Goldson were marginal starters or back-ups, Bowman was a back-up, Tarell Brown barely saw the field, Alex Boone didn't even get dressed for games, RayMac wasn't always dressed for games either, and Isaac Sopoaga played DE. Harbaugh arrives, moves Sopoaga to NT, activate RayMac, puts Bowman and Brown in the starting line-up, gives more responsibilities to Brooks, and all of a sudden, we have a top 3 defense.

I'm not saying Reaser will be a good player, but he does have some potential, and we should let a better coaching staff assess that. People tend to forget, but Chip assembled just an awful staff, in my opinion. I thought the coaching talent on Tomsula's staff was two or three times greater than Chip's. Especially on the defensive side. Even on the offensive side... I know it doesn't mean much, but Anthony Davis didn't even want to be coached by Pat Flaherty. There has to be something wrong when a coach can so easily be singled out like that. All this to say that I'm not ready to blame the roster for all this team's failures. Awful coaching staff and awful tops of drafts by Baalke. That hurts a team big time. But a guy like Reaser, I'll reserve judgement for later.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19693
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


still top 10 in the league for punts inside the 20 a bad second half of the season is not a reason to cut a really serviceable punter...especially since he was used so often because of our deplorable offense...fatigue factors in like I said emotion not logic is driving your names.


Yes. Sadly, "reasonably serviceable" is not what you're expecting when you use a 5th round pick on a punter. Trent!
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.


still top 10 in the league for punts inside the 20 a bad second half of the season is not a reason to cut a really serviceable punter...especially since he was used so often because of our deplorable offense...fatigue factors in like I said emotion not logic is driving your names.


Yes. Sadly, "reasonably serviceable" is not what you're expecting when you use a 5th round pick on a punter. Trent!


No, but Pinion is no worse than other dominant punters in their first few years. McAfee ranked 27th in punt average year two (led this year). Andy Lee was barely any good his first three years. Morestead didn't start booming punts until his third year. It's common for some punters to develop late.

Still hate that we drafted a punter with any pick, let alone a 5th. But he doesn't need to go anywhere.
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