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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 9487
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
You guys do realize Julio Jones put up 9 receptions, 178 yards, and a TD against us last year... right?


Just gonna re-post this so all the "omg norman is gone!!" people can read it over again. The only difference between that game and this one is that our offense could sustain drives here and there and our pass rush was better. If not, Jones probably would have been able to make more plays.

My point is that while Norman is a great player (nobody is disputing that, and why I brought up Norman/Pryor earlier is to show that down games happen), it isn't like we haven't gotten burned by Jones regardless. He's an elite player for a reason. People are overreacting and on top of that, you guys remember Marty Hurney? So instead of clamoring that we should have broken the bank for a player because of a short-term deficiency (which has been far from the biggest deficiency on the team for anyone who has watched the games), remember what kind of position Hurney's contract stuck us in for years due to short-term thinking and long-term ignorance.


I thought Julio actually only got 80 yards against Norman in that game though? And the 3 games before that, Norman pretty much shut him down. I remember watching that game last year, and a lot of Julio's yards, and that TD, came from this play, with no Norman in sight:



I'm not trying to hate. I just think Norman had a bigger impact for the Panthers, and has a bigger impact for the Skins, than most are willing to give him credit for. It goes beyond just his skills too. The attitude he brings is equally as inspiring for the guys around him.
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Drics13


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
You guys do realize Julio Jones put up 9 receptions, 178 yards, and a TD against us last year... right?


Just gonna re-post this so all the "omg norman is gone!!" people can read it over again. The only difference between that game and this one is that our offense could sustain drives here and there and our pass rush was better. If not, Jones probably would have been able to make more plays.

My point is that while Norman is a great player (nobody is disputing that, and why I brought up Norman/Pryor earlier is to show that down games happen), it isn't like we haven't gotten burned by Jones regardless. He's an elite player for a reason. People are overreacting and on top of that, you guys remember Marty Hurney? So instead of clamoring that we should have broken the bank for a player because of a short-term deficiency (which has been far from the biggest deficiency on the team for anyone who has watched the games), remember what kind of position Hurney's contract stuck us in for years due to short-term thinking and long-term ignorance.


This is it.No pass rush. Matt Ryan who everyone pundit said last week wasnt very good had all day to throw. We're getting no pressure. We should have kept Norman on the tag, but not signed him long term.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 17917
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I thought Julio actually only got 80 yards against Norman in that game though? And the 3 games before that, Norman pretty much shut him down. I remember watching that game last year, and a lot of Julio's yards, and that TD, came from this play, with no Norman in sight:



I'm not trying to hate. I just think Norman had a bigger impact for the Panthers, and has a bigger impact for the Skins, than most are willing to give him credit for. It goes beyond just his skills too. The attitude he brings is equally as inspiring for the guys around him.


Who cares who Julio got the yards on? 170 yards and a TD is 170 yards and a TD. I don't think the Redskins coaches went into the locker-room and said, "well, Antonio Brown had a big game... but at least it wasn't on Norman!"

I'm not saying that to come across as an A-Hole, just to make my point easier to understand. Norman might help mask our deficiencies, but when a player has a game like that, it goes beyond just one player. It isn't like we're the only team with bad corners and yet, you don't see receivers going off for 300 yards every game. It was a combination of a bunch of worst case scenarios, lack of communication (safeties were out of position on almost all of those deep throws, Norman isn't going to fix that), and bad luck. Some of those catches Julio made, aside from the deep ones, were on perfect coverage. Something people are overlooking. He made at least 3 or 4 ridiculous catches in traffic in that game that we couldn't have played any better than we did.

We did a very good job against Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas, and Stefon Diggs. We just had a really, really bad game against a really, really good wide receiver. A wide receiver who has went off on us even when we had Norman. There is more to it than him.

Some people just are short-term thinkers. Not calling anyone in specific out, but its the truth. Panthers have a lot of good players. Some of them, unfortunately, have to walk. Norman was not going to get a long-term contract from us at the price he got with the Redskins when we will soon have to pay guys like Kawann Short and Trai Turner. And if we let Short walk, it would be, "oh Gettleman is dumb, no pass rush!". If we let Turner walk, it would be, "oh Gettleman is dumb, no offensive line!".

Beckham had more yards against the Redskins than he did the Saints. Again, not trying to rail on your team or Norman. I love the guy. I wish he could have stayed. He's a phenomenal player, like you said. But I'm just showing that what happened on Sunday has a LOT more to do with one cornerback. People are just overreacting because we're 1-3 and Julio, quite frankly, had a bonkers game. If the game is played 10 times out of 10, he's probably not recording 300 yards in a game more than that single time.
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mozwanted


Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I thought Julio actually only got 80 yards against Norman in that game though? And the 3 games before that, Norman pretty much shut him down. I remember watching that game last year, and a lot of Julio's yards, and that TD, came from this play, with no Norman in sight:



I'm not trying to hate. I just think Norman had a bigger impact for the Panthers, and has a bigger impact for the Skins, than most are willing to give him credit for. It goes beyond just his skills too. The attitude he brings is equally as inspiring for the guys around him.


Who cares who Julio got the yards on? 170 yards and a TD is 170 yards and a TD. I don't think the Redskins coaches went into the locker-room and said, "well, Antonio Brown had a big game... but at least it wasn't on Norman!"

I'm not saying that to come across as an A-Hole, just to make my point easier to understand. Norman might help mask our deficiencies, but when a player has a game like that, it goes beyond just one player. It isn't like we're the only team with bad corners and yet, you don't see receivers going off for 300 yards every game. It was a combination of a bunch of worst case scenarios, lack of communication (safeties were out of position on almost all of those deep throws, Norman isn't going to fix that), and bad luck. Some of those catches Julio made, aside from the deep ones, were on perfect coverage. Something people are overlooking. He made at least 3 or 4 ridiculous catches in traffic in that game that we couldn't have played any better than we did.

We did a very good job against Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas, and Stefon Diggs. We just had a really, really bad game against a really, really good wide receiver. A wide receiver who has went off on us even when we had Norman. There is more to it than him.

Some people just are short-term thinkers. Not calling anyone in specific out, but its the truth. Panthers have a lot of good players. Some of them, unfortunately, have to walk. Norman was not going to get a long-term contract from us at the price he got with the Redskins when we will soon have to pay guys like Kawann Short and Trai Turner. And if we let Short walk, it would be, "oh Gettleman is dumb, no pass rush!". If we let Turner walk, it would be, "oh Gettleman is dumb, no offensive line!".

Beckham had more yards against the Redskins than he did the Saints. Again, not trying to rail on your team or Norman. I love the guy. I wish he could have stayed. He's a phenomenal player, like you said. But I'm just showing that what happened on Sunday has a LOT more to do with one cornerback. People are just overreacting because we're 1-3 and Julio, quite frankly, had a bonkers game. If the game is played 10 times out of 10, he's probably not recording 300 yards in a game more than that single time.



I disagree with everything you said. Norman is not only an amazing player but he makes players around him better. He makes DC's job a lot easier because he is one of the 3 if not 2 cb's that can shutdown his assignment.

Redskins defensive started out rough. They were like the 2nd worst defense last year. With some experience our DC is learning to use norman and our defense has been much better. Norman was worth every penny and i can honestly say he's the best player I've seen on the skins since sean taylor.

Norman is a complete player with no flaws. Chris Cooley breaks down game film and he speaks very highly of norman. He does everything correct even when he gives up some plays its normally because our other players blow a coverage and norman is smart enough to stay in area where he can stop the offense from getting an easy blown coverage td. He has done this many times this year. Where in a normal live game it looks like norman screwed up and gave his guy too much space when in reality he was looking out for the defense. He is first one in film room and last one out. Im glad he's a redskin. He is the cornerstone of our defense and he brings a swagger which rubs off on our young players.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 17917
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, you once again miss my point. I never said anything about Norman not being a great player, yet you keep telling me good he is.

The difference between a great defense and a terrible defense is not one cornerback. Panthers have had below average CBs before (2013.. well, there was Munnerlyn in the nickel but our outside corners were Florence and White) and still fielded a top flight defense.

Redskins have looked good against 3 below average to terrible offenses. They gave up 27+ points to the 3 quality offenses they did play, including a shellacking against the Steelers.

If you think Norman is the sole difference between our defense this year and last year, then you aren't watching the games and clearly just trying to push a narrative. Nobody is saying the Panthers don't miss him (he'd definitely help), but he's not going to fix all of our issues. Coleman took a huge step back. Boston sucks. Our pass rush sucks. We don't have Tillman either. We aren't good at stopping the run.

But you said you disagree with everything I said. I'm just trying to figure out why. Where am I wrong? Did the Redskins not do a worse job against Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham than other teams with far lesser #1 corners did? Julio Jones just went off on the Seahawks (with Sherman) for 139 yards and 1 TD, while the Saints shut him down. So if its all about having that #1 CB, why is that the case? Is it possible there is more to a defense than that? Since you disagree with that though, what is the other reason why teams with great #1 CBs aren't slowing these guys down?
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