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Steelers sign Kicker Shaun Suisham to a contract extension

 
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject: Steelers sign Kicker Shaun Suisham to a contract extension Reply with quote

Quote:
We have extended kicker Shaun Suisham's contract through the 2018 season.


https://twitter.com/steelers/status/495210430801780736


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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep
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TSerg


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@gerrydulac: K Shaun Suisham signed to contract extension thru 2018. NFL's most accurate kicker since week 14 of 2011.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see the numbers. Teams have a tendency to overpay kickers. They aren't worth much more than the vet min. Especially when they have no leg strength.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
I'd like to see the numbers. Teams have a tendency to overpay kickers. They aren't worth much more than the vet min. Especially when they have no leg strength.


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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it's reality. Backed up by actual statistics. Kicking accuracy and point production fluctuate from season to season. Even the best kickers are only separated from the good/average by a few percentage points. So, let's say a kicker picks up 2-3 extra FG's a season a normal kicker wouldn't. That's 6-9 points.

So, it's not worth paying these guys 2+m for their FG kicking. Especially when it's a guy with a weak leg. So, Suisham is several percentage points more accurate (or has been, because again - it fluctuates season to season historically). How many points do the Steelers simply leave on the field because he can't make anything approaching 50 yards? Probably more than they gain from his accuracy which is as liable to decline to the average.

By contrast, a kicker with a weak leg could end up costing you about several yards of field position a game. About 5 yards a kick with about, let's say, five kicks a day. That's 25 hidden yards a game. Multiple that by 16. You are talking about 200 yards you are costing your defense. In reality, this is likely even higher for Suisham.

It's not dumb. You just don't think things through to their logical conclusion.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
No, it's reality. Backed up by actual statistics. Kicking accuracy and point production fluctuate from season to season. Even the best kickers are only separated from the good/average by a few percentage points. So, let's say a kicker picks up 2-3 extra FG's a season a normal kicker wouldn't. That's 6-9 points.

So, it's not worth paying these guys 2+m for their FG kicking. Especially when it's a guy with a weak leg. So, Suisham is several percentage points more accurate (or has been, because again - it fluctuates season to season historically). How many points do the Steelers simply leave on the field because he can't make anything approaching 50 yards? Probably more than they gain from his accuracy which is as liable to decline to the average.

By contrast, a kicker with a weak leg could end up costing you about several yards of field position a game. About 5 yards a kick with about, let's say, five kicks a day. That's 25 hidden yards a game. Multiple that by 16. You are talking about 200 yards you are costing your defense. In reality, this is likely even higher for Suisham.

It's not dumb. You just don't think things through to their logical conclusion.


First off, you really arent one to be criticizing peoples logic based on some of the things youve posted.

Secondly, no one is saying he deserves a huge contract or anything. But every one is getting pay raises, including kickers.

Third, you ask how many points we leave on the field because Suisham has a weak leg? Okay...how many points do we leave on the field because our OLine cant get any push in the run game? How many points do we leave on the field because we dont have a good red zone target? How many points do we leave on the field because of poor playcalling?

There are alot of reasons we leave points on the field, and Suisham is not at the top of the list of reasons why. Am I saying he deserves a huge raise? No. But he is still money within 50 yards and while he doesnt deserve to be paid like an elite kicker, the fact is is he is dependable and money within 50 yards. Id rather have a dependable kicker that can make pretty much everything inside of 50 than a strong legged kicker that can hit some 50+ yarders but is extremely inconsistent.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Secondly, no one is saying he deserves a huge contract or anything. But every one is getting pay raises, including kickers.


I don't care how many teams overpay kickers. There are times when you need to pay market value. It's out of your control. That is not the case with a fairly fungible position such as kicker. The point was that they are easily replaceable, and thus not worth paying.

Quote:

Third, you ask how many points we leave on the field because Suisham has a weak leg? Okay...how many points do we leave on the field because our OLine cant get any push in the run game? How many points do we leave on the field because we dont have a good red zone target? How many points do we leave on the field because of poor playcalling?


Ok, and your point with regards to what I said? If you are going to criticize my ability to reason, you may at least want to stick to relevant issues.

I agree - you shouldn't be paying for marginal production. For instance, the OL and the Pouncey contract. Or talking with Gilbert. The line sucks with them, so the team should be asking whether its worth paying them.

It's part of a conservative mindset where the team refuses to accept sometimes you need to baptize young guys by fire.

Quote:

There are alot of reasons we leave points on the field, and Suisham is not at the top of the list of reasons why. Am I saying he deserves a huge raise? No. But he is still money within 50 yards and while he doesnt deserve to be paid like an elite kicker, the fact is is he is dependable and money within 50 yards. Id rather have a dependable kicker that can make pretty much everything inside of 50 than a strong legged kicker that can hit some 50+ yarders but is extremely inconsistent.


The point was simple. The only argument for paying Suisham is FG percentage. He's weak in every other aspect of his game. FG percentage is a highly volatile statistic for kickers, and the different in percentages of made kicks tends to be minor.

So, the difference between Suisham and those average kickers (which is what matters when talking about what you should pay a guy - not comparisons to the failings of other positions on the team - is basically nill.

A young kicker could come in and the team probably wouldn't score much less. Even if he was a slightly less accurate kicker (the difference of 2-3 a year typically), he could easily compensate for that by having a stronger leg.

You don't pay kickers because there is rarely a big gap between them. So, it's a waste of money to give them 1-2m more than what you'd pay another guy.

It's not opinion - it's the reality. This is all very easily shown with stats.

To get that piece of mind they get with Suisham, they are paying 1-2m more than they have to. They are getting almost nothing back for that extra investment. There's the point and logic to the post which you completely missed.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be the first to say Suisham has had some really bad misses.

However, there's only a handful of kickers in the league that I'd rather have, only 1 of those guys is in our division. I'm happy with Suisham; it helps that when I went to Training Camp last year he came up to my son (1 year old at the time) and talked to him and gave him a high five. Suisham looked stunned that I asked him for his autograph as he was walking up the ramp. I'm a bit 'sentimental' when it comes to good character players and Suisham is one. But more so, he's also a talented Kicker who, more often than not, we can rely on. He is going to have a bad miss from time to time and it's going to make you infuriated to the point you're going to be asking to cut him in the moment, but at the end of the day, there's not too many kickers I'd rather have to rely on, you could do worse...much worse.
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KFFL
Quote:
Updating previous reports, Pittsburgh Steelers PK Shaun Suisham's four-year deal is worth $13.1 million with $2.85 million guaranteed.

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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, yea...[inappropriate/removed] deal if that averages what it looks like. Low guarantees doesn't change that.
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warfelg


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He got paid like a top 10 kicker, and I know people will think this is dead wrong but:

He's a top ten kicker.

~$3m per season is a ok rate. I don't know how Colbert does it, but I've read how some GM's budget their cap per position. Like RB gets a total od $12m for a depth of 4, QB $25m, ect. Who knows if he has one for core ST players and given Warren/Wing/DHB and other ST guys are making the min it could have opened up to allow us to keep Suisham.
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MightyJoeYoung


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CK, kickers are people too Sad
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Chieferific


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MightyJoeYoung wrote:
CK, kickers are people too Sad

Just ask Ray Guy.
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