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Chargers starting guard Jeromey Clary takes a paycut

 
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Xenos


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Chargers starting guard Jeromey Clary takes a paycut Reply with quote

Per Eric Williams of ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-diego-chargers/post/_/id/5939/source-jeromey-clary-reduces-salary

Quote:
Eric Williams ‏@eric_d_williams 3m Per @FieldYates Chargers OL Jeromey Clary reduced salary from $4.55M to $1.6M. Team has $2.95M in cap space. Clary is currently on PUP list.


I know a lot of SD fans are happy about this, though many probably want him cut. I personally like him on the team at this price. And what's great is that this is like the 4th player on the team that's willing to take a paycut under Tom Telesco (Royal, Freeney, Jarrett Johnson, and now Clary).
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.
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Xenos


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.

He was a good football player in 2007, 2009, and 2010 (which is the year that earned him his extension). Unfortunately, he declined severely ever since. I did think he played decently at guard last year and now his salary cap isn't an issue for a guard anymore.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its great he did that but idk if his roster spot is really safer now
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenos wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.

He was a good football player in 2007, 2009, and 2010 (which is the year that earned him his extension). Unfortunately, he declined severely ever since. I did think he played decently at guard last year and now his salary cap isn't an issue for a guard anymore.

He wasn't the liability at guard that he was at tackle, but he still wasn't what I'd venture to call "good." And given that the direction McCoy appears to be going is wanting to emphasize the running game more and play ball-control, that doesn't exactly play to Clary's strengths.

That said, his spot on the roster is safe until he's beaten out for both roles he fills: Starting RG (for the moment) and utility swing tackle/guard. I've got a ton of faith in Joe D'Alessandris, but typically only the physical freak rookie OL's are the ones that don't remotely show any sort of growing pains in the jump from college to the pro's. So unless Johnnie Troutman makes a substantial jump in this preseason, I don't expect anyone to beat out Clary in camp. Watt may do it over the course of the season, but despite a pretty solid technical floor he needs the pro-level strength training program to get him to where he's physically able to bang in the trenches at this level.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Xenos wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.

He was a good football player in 2007, 2009, and 2010 (which is the year that earned him his extension). Unfortunately, he declined severely ever since. I did think he played decently at guard last year and now his salary cap isn't an issue for a guard anymore.

He wasn't the liability at guard that he was at tackle, but he still wasn't what I'd venture to call "good." And given that the direction McCoy appears to be going is wanting to emphasize the running game more and play ball-control, that doesn't exactly play to Clary's strengths.

That said, his spot on the roster is safe until he's beaten out for both roles he fills: Starting RG (for the moment) and utility swing tackle/guard. I've got a ton of faith in Joe D'Alessandris, but typically only the physical freak rookie OL's are the ones that don't remotely show any sort of growing pains in the jump from college to the pro's. So unless Johnnie Troutman makes a substantial jump in this preseason, I don't expect anyone to beat out Clary in camp. Watt may do it over the course of the season, but despite a pretty solid technical floor he needs the pro-level strength training program to get him to where he's physically able to bang in the trenches at this level.


Clary isn't healthy and might not be healthy by the time the season rolls around.
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Xenos


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Xenos wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.

He was a good football player in 2007, 2009, and 2010 (which is the year that earned him his extension). Unfortunately, he declined severely ever since. I did think he played decently at guard last year and now his salary cap isn't an issue for a guard anymore.

He wasn't the liability at guard that he was at tackle, but he still wasn't what I'd venture to call "good." And given that the direction McCoy appears to be going is wanting to emphasize the running game more and play ball-control, that doesn't exactly play to Clary's strengths.

That said, his spot on the roster is safe until he's beaten out for both roles he fills: Starting RG (for the moment) and utility swing tackle/guard. I've got a ton of faith in Joe D'Alessandris, but typically only the physical freak rookie OL's are the ones that don't remotely show any sort of growing pains in the jump from college to the pro's. So unless Johnnie Troutman makes a substantial jump in this preseason, I don't expect anyone to beat out Clary in camp. Watt may do it over the course of the season, but despite a pretty solid technical floor he needs the pro-level strength training program to get him to where he's physically able to bang in the trenches at this level.


Then you should be happy to know that this is what he said regarding Clary:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jul/23/chargers-jeromey-clary-pup-injury/

Quote:
"He's tough as the day is long," offensive line coach Joe D'Alessandris said this year. "He's dependable. He's honest. He's fair. He's a competitor, and he's productive. I can't give you any better words than the words I just told you. I think the guy's got a lot going for him, and he's good for our team."
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenos wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Xenos wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.

He was a good football player in 2007, 2009, and 2010 (which is the year that earned him his extension). Unfortunately, he declined severely ever since. I did think he played decently at guard last year and now his salary cap isn't an issue for a guard anymore.

He wasn't the liability at guard that he was at tackle, but he still wasn't what I'd venture to call "good." And given that the direction McCoy appears to be going is wanting to emphasize the running game more and play ball-control, that doesn't exactly play to Clary's strengths.

That said, his spot on the roster is safe until he's beaten out for both roles he fills: Starting RG (for the moment) and utility swing tackle/guard. I've got a ton of faith in Joe D'Alessandris, but typically only the physical freak rookie OL's are the ones that don't remotely show any sort of growing pains in the jump from college to the pro's. So unless Johnnie Troutman makes a substantial jump in this preseason, I don't expect anyone to beat out Clary in camp. Watt may do it over the course of the season, but despite a pretty solid technical floor he needs the pro-level strength training program to get him to where he's physically able to bang in the trenches at this level.


Then you should be happy to know that this is what he said regarding Clary:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jul/23/chargers-jeromey-clary-pup-injury/

Quote:
"He's tough as the day is long," offensive line coach Joe D'Alessandris said this year. "He's dependable. He's honest. He's fair. He's a competitor, and he's productive. I can't give you any better words than the words I just told you. I think the guy's got a lot going for him, and he's good for our team."

And there's not much of anything there that I disagree with him on. Coach speak is still coach speak, but there's nothing untrue in there. Clary is tough, honest and fair. He is a competitor. You have to get all the way to productive before you reach one descriptor that's at all questionable; and even then he has shown in the past that he can be productive just never consistently productive (which may or may not have been a product of the talent surrounding him). He is good for our team now that he's on a more reasonable contract, particularly if it's as depth on the bench.

He's just a guy who is the epitome of having all the right mental and physical tools for the sport, just lacks the damn talent to translate those tools into playing skill and consistent effective play. I honestly don't doubt that he may even end up being a pretty solid coach one day, but the dude is the Ken Dorsey of OL.
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Xenos


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Xenos wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Xenos wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
At this price he is pretty much a lock to make the roster. He really isn't a bad guy. He's just such a horrible football player.

He was a good football player in 2007, 2009, and 2010 (which is the year that earned him his extension). Unfortunately, he declined severely ever since. I did think he played decently at guard last year and now his salary cap isn't an issue for a guard anymore.

He wasn't the liability at guard that he was at tackle, but he still wasn't what I'd venture to call "good." And given that the direction McCoy appears to be going is wanting to emphasize the running game more and play ball-control, that doesn't exactly play to Clary's strengths.

That said, his spot on the roster is safe until he's beaten out for both roles he fills: Starting RG (for the moment) and utility swing tackle/guard. I've got a ton of faith in Joe D'Alessandris, but typically only the physical freak rookie OL's are the ones that don't remotely show any sort of growing pains in the jump from college to the pro's. So unless Johnnie Troutman makes a substantial jump in this preseason, I don't expect anyone to beat out Clary in camp. Watt may do it over the course of the season, but despite a pretty solid technical floor he needs the pro-level strength training program to get him to where he's physically able to bang in the trenches at this level.


Then you should be happy to know that this is what he said regarding Clary:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jul/23/chargers-jeromey-clary-pup-injury/

Quote:
"He's tough as the day is long," offensive line coach Joe D'Alessandris said this year. "He's dependable. He's honest. He's fair. He's a competitor, and he's productive. I can't give you any better words than the words I just told you. I think the guy's got a lot going for him, and he's good for our team."

And there's not much of anything there that I disagree with him on. Coach speak is still coach speak, but there's nothing untrue in there. Clary is tough, honest and fair. He is a competitor. You have to get all the way to productive before you reach one descriptor that's at all questionable; and even then he has shown in the past that he can be productive just never consistently productive (which may or may not have been a product of the talent surrounding him). He is good for our team now that he's on a more reasonable contract, particularly if it's as depth on the bench.

He's just a guy who is the epitome of having all the right mental and physical tools for the sport, just lacks the damn talent to translate those tools into playing skill and consistent effective play. I honestly don't doubt that he may even end up being a pretty solid coach one day, but the dude is the Ken Dorsey of OL.

There are a lot of other players that are worse than Clary. The dude gets too much vitriol for someone who is a solid player. OL, in particular, is the most difficult position to understand because we don't know how much is based on responsibility, which is what coaches see. And for some reason despite the coaching changes (particularly on the oline), they still keep the guy around.

All I know is that Clary managed to acquit himself up until 2011 as a RT. I also thought he did decently last year as RG, despite PFF's beliefs. But I'm not going to lie. When FA began, I did want to cut him and use his salary to get someone better like Geoff Schwartz since he was overpaid. Fortunately, he's now paid just right.

We also could have drafted an olineman to replace early in the draft but we didn't. So the FO and coaches much still be high on him. My main concern this year is the injury and how much time he will be away before being able to practice again. Maybe by some miracle, Troutman or Watt(s), will be able to step up and unseat him.
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Strawman Theory


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clary is a retard, literally. Anyone who says otherwise has never seen him. He shouldn't have made the squad over Lekkerkerker in 06. He was serviceable at best in 07 which was his best football in the entirety of his career. He has been a complete waste of roster space since that time. The guy got so much protection from fans who believe coaches and scouts of a losing football club are infallible due to a salary. The mods even propped up other fans as infallible on their boards and ran every dissenter out with bans. Stats compiled by independent by 3rd parties with nothing to prove were dismissed. Video evidence of his inability to get out of his stance before getting beat, players walking right by him, the amount of times he'd fall to the ground that you'd think his knees were cut off at 1.5 seconds into every snap would all be placed into the "megathread" where the chosen few would refute evidence with opinion and conjecture. Harass and belittle those who did not see the light that their opinions provided, and ban if you continued to speak up. That is the sad state of propaganda in which opinions were formed.

Last edited by Strawman Theory on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shrinking down the quote tree to avoid massive page-stretch...

I agree he gets more grief than his play necessarily deserves. I consider him the definition of base-average, if not slightly below average just because I value quality technique over overwhelming physical prowess. Now that he's on a pay-grade that's only slightly above the league minimum for a veteran with his amount of experience (which is !$900k, I believe), I'm far less against him being on the team. I've always just been against his being gifted the starting spot - which appears to no longer be the case - as was done perpetually under the AJ/Norv regime. I will speak to a few particulars in your post though to clarify a few bits of my POV.

Xenos wrote:
There are a lot of other players that are worse than Clary. The dude gets too much vitriol for someone who is a solid player. OL, in particular, is the most difficult position to understand because we don't know how much is based on responsibility, which is what coaches see. And for some reason despite the coaching changes (particularly on the oline), they still keep the guy around.

They keep him around because there wasn't a better alternative on the roster and the resources/means we had to improve over him were rather limited. AJ Smith never drafted a 1st round lineman in his entire tenure as a GM, so the fact that he didn't spend a high pick to replace Clary doesn't really mean much; AJ simply never valued OL highly. Once he was extended, he was quite simply more expensive to part with than to keep against the cap, and unlike a guy like Robert Meachem or Derek Cox, we didn't have guys already on the roster who had proven to be at least comparable at worst to Clary's play.

Additionally, OL is a major chemistry unit; so it's not something that coaches are going to tinker with a ton outside of camp unless there is a major upgrade available or that has already presented itself (i.e. one guy goes down the previous season, the next guy up steps in and proves himself to be as good or better - thus the guy who got injured it potentially out in the cold or at minimum when he returns the guy in the second already has chemistry with other linemates).

Quote:
All I know is that Clary managed to acquit himself up until 2011 as a RT. I also thought he did decently last year as RG, despite PFF's beliefs.

How much of that was due to playing alongside perennially underrated Mike Goff? When Goff left for KC and was replaced by Vasquez, Clary's play took a notable drop.

Quote:
We also could have drafted an olineman to replace early in the draft but we didn't. So the FO and coaches much still be high on him. My main concern this year is the injury and how much time he will be away before being able to practice again. Maybe by some miracle, Troutman or Watt(s), will be able to step up and unseat him.

I think saying that they still must be high on him because they didn't draft a replacement early is a bit of a stretch. They viewed us as having more pressing needs and areas that needed to be addressed than guard. We still drafted a guard and in the rounds where guards traditionally still have good value. Last season we were bringing in new starters at 3 of the 5 OL spots as was, they were going to try to maintain some semblance of chemistry, so there was little chance that Clary wasn't going to be in the starting lineup just a matter of where he'd be playing - Troutman was largely competing with Rinehart for the LG spot in camp back then.

I'd say the fact that he wasn't approached to extend and lower his cap number when his getting paid like a starting tackle while playing guard was a pretty good indicator that the team has had the long-term vision of moving on and up from him, but they were taking the more conservative/prudent approach and shoring up other more pressing spots first, rather than just ripping the Band-aid off.
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Xenos


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:

How much of that was due to playing alongside perennially underrated Mike Goff? When Goff left for KC and was replaced by Vasquez, Clary's play took a notable drop.


I don't have time to address everything, but I'll start with this. I disagree about Goff. He was the one underachieving in 2008, which is why the FO didn't resign him. Clary improved from 2008 (a bad year for him) to 2009 when Vasquez was next to him consistently. In fact, I might say 2009 was his best year considering that Vasquez missed quite a few games that year and Clary had Dombrowski next to him who wasn't nearly as good.
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Xenos


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strawman Theory wrote:
Clary is a retard, literally. Anyone who says otherwise has never seen him. He shouldn't have made the squad over Lekkerkerker in 06. He was serviceable at best in 07 which was his best football in the entirety of his career. He has been a complete waste of roster space since that time. The guy got so much protection from fans who believe coaches and scouts of a losing football club are infallible due to a salary. The mods even propped up other fans as infallible on their boards and ran every dissenter out with bans. Stats compiled by independent by 3rd parties with nothing to prove were dismissed. Video evidence of his inability to get out of his stance before getting beat, players walking right by him, the amount of times he'd fall to the ground that you'd think his knees were cut off at 1.5 seconds into every snap would all be placed into the "megathread" where the chosen few would refute evidence with opinion and conjecture. Harass and belittle those who did not see the light that their opinions provided, and ban if you continued to speak up. That is the sad state of propaganda in which opinions were formed.


Good thing I'm not a retard then. And I manage to watch videos of him too. Wink
Though to be fair, we don't have access to the coaches' tape as well as what the coaches want the assignments to be. So I guess we're all retarded then. YAY!!!!
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