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2015 NFL Draft Discussion Thread V 1
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what it is about Ohio State being completely inept at developing passers. Some super athletes playing QB and developing no pocket passing skills. Mike Tomzcak is the best passer I can think of. Although I think Troy Smith should have developed into a nice backup in the NFL.

Admittedly I have done next to no looking into players, but when the school doesn't produce passers, and the head coach brought you Tim Tebow--not sold that Miller is anything more than another QB that'll be drafted too high, forced to play too soon, and the 35th best QB in the NFL-- just good enough to drag a franchise to mediocrity for 3 years before they get fed up and trade him for a Natti Ice.
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NCPackFan


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
Man, Vic Beasley probably would have gone #5 or #6 if he would have declared. He's so good.


but...but...but....but Vic Beasley is a tweener who won't make it at the next level as a DE because he's too small and won't work out at OLB.


Yeah...I remember hearing that one when I put him in a mock before he announced he was coming back to Clemson...
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justo


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCPackFan wrote:
justo wrote:
Man, Vic Beasley probably would have gone #5 or #6 if he would have declared. He's so good.


but...but...but....but Vic Beasley is a tweener who won't make it at the next level as a DE because he's too small and won't work out at OLB.


Yeah...I remember hearing that one when I put him in a mock before he announced he was coming back to Clemson...
My biggest issue isn't even his weight. He's just too willing to give up all his surface area instead of giving half. He's already putting dudes that out weigh him by 100 pounds on skates, so the added 15-20 pounds he'll add on (at least from his junior day) by 2016 will only help him. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if athletically he's Clay Matthews, Von Miller, or Bruce Irvin level at the Combine. I'm not too sure if I was Oakland or Atlanta that I would have passed on him at #5 or #6. But, then again, I did like Anthony Barr more, as far as a career long projection was concerned, more than Khalil Mack, so what do I know.

For what it's worth, I watched eight of his games the past two days, and I cut some of the DB cuts to show what he can do when he's on his game. Impressive to say the least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvH0-UnpQac
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CalhounLambeau


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where do you guys see Vic Beasley going in the draft? Do you think a big year puts in the top 5 category? Not sure what to think of him.
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DavidatMIZZOU


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
I don't know what it is about Ohio State being completely inept at developing passers. Some super athletes playing QB and developing no pocket passing skills. Mike Tomzcak is the best passer I can think of. Although I think Troy Smith should have developed into a nice backup in the NFL.

Admittedly I have done next to no looking into players, but when the school doesn't produce passers, and the head coach brought you Tim Tebow--not sold that Miller is anything more than another QB that'll be drafted too high, forced to play too soon, and the 35th best QB in the NFL-- just good enough to drag a franchise to mediocrity for 3 years before they get fed up and trade him for a Natti Ice.


I just looked up Craig Krenzel... I thought he was better than he actually was. In fact I thought he bounced around the league for a while, also wrong.

Troy Smith could be a back-up. He is capable IMO.

[edit] notice that in recent years powerhouse recruiters Florida, Texas and Ohio State have lacked in the QB department? Why is that? Are the respective coaching staffs poor QB developers, or do they unluckily sign the 4/5 star recruit whose best days were in high school?
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My god it must be so terrible to have three teams that consistently make the playoffs
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justo


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
[edit] notice that in recent years powerhouse recruiters Florida, Texas and Ohio State have lacked in the QB department?
Florida has that QB that everyone is gagaing about right now. Incoming freshman. I think Palmy brought it up before, but Gilbert, if he stayed at Texas, could have been something. Just a bad string of luck. I mean, are Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, and Braxton Miller the three best QBs in tOSU history? There's a case, if nothing else. Texas has that Swoopes cat that everyone loves, too, but apparently he hasn't been too hot.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
Why is throwing from outside of the pocket a bad thing? There's really only like two guys recently who have found major success without being able to move around (Brady and Manning). Outside of that, a majority of the good quarterbacks in the league make some plays on the move.


And what happens when the opposing defensive coordinator brings their OLB or slot corner on a blitz? You're asking for your quarterback to be lit up like a Christmas tree. I honestly can't think of many quarterbacks who have found success where majority of their throws came from outside the pocket (especially ones that weren't forced outside the pocket because of pressure). His QB fundamentals aren't very good, particuarly his footwork which isn't a real big surprise given the offensive system under Urban Meyer. Being able to move is a good thing, moving out of the pocket on ever single snap isn't. A QB is best when he has fresh pocket to step into and deliver the throw, by moving him outside of the pocket you're essentially putting the onus on him to keep himself clean.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
Man, Vic Beasley probably would have gone #5 or #6 if he would have declared. He's so good.


Are you sure you're not just looking for hits now? He's a one trick pony, albeit a damn good one at that. But he's going to need to get bigger or he's an undersized pass rusher that lacks a real position. He's too small to play with his hand in the ground, and there is the natural question marks about his ability to play in space. 34 OLB is clearly the only spot for him, but you'd like to see him put more (and keep) weight on.
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DavidatMIZZOU


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
[edit] notice that in recent years powerhouse recruiters Florida, Texas and Ohio State have lacked in the QB department?
Florida has that QB that everyone is gagaing about right now. Incoming freshman. I think Palmy brought it up before, but Gilbert, if he stayed at Texas, could have been something. Just a bad string of luck. I mean, are Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, and Braxton Miller the three best QBs in tOSU history? There's a case, if nothing else. Texas has that Swoopes cat that everyone loves, too, but apparently he hasn't been too hot.


I'll get a look at the Florida kid unless he redshirts this year. If he flops, is it coaching or has he just peaked at 17 rather than 22 or 27? I just think it is odd that these schools with the types of recruits they continuously pull in have very little NFL QB success.
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mistakebytehlak wrote:

My god it must be so terrible to have three teams that consistently make the playoffs
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blankman0021


Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
justo wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
[edit] notice that in recent years powerhouse recruiters Florida, Texas and Ohio State have lacked in the QB department?
Florida has that QB that everyone is gagaing about right now. Incoming freshman. I think Palmy brought it up before, but Gilbert, if he stayed at Texas, could have been something. Just a bad string of luck. I mean, are Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, and Braxton Miller the three best QBs in tOSU history? There's a case, if nothing else. Texas has that Swoopes cat that everyone loves, too, but apparently he hasn't been too hot.


I'll get a look at the Florida kid unless he redshirts this year. If he flops, is it coaching or has he just peaked at 17 rather than 22 or 27? I just think it is odd that these schools with the types of recruits they continuously pull in have very little NFL QB success.


I think some of it has to do with the fact these particular colleges tend to focus on great college QB's as opposed to great 'NFL talent' arms.

Running QB's win at the collegiate level. They have a tendency to rely on their legs too much though, and never develop as a pocket passer-- which is the primary way to win in the NFL since the defense is much faster and smarter than the ones you run around in college.
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justo


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
justo wrote:
Man, Vic Beasley probably would have gone #5 or #6 if he would have declared. He's so good.


Are you sure you're not just looking for hits now? He's a one trick pony, albeit a damn good one at that. But he's going to need to get bigger or he's an undersized pass rusher that lacks a real position. He's too small to play with his hand in the ground, and there is the natural question marks about his ability to play in space. 34 OLB is clearly the only spot for him, but you'd like to see him put more (and keep) weight on.


That's fine, IMO. You just have to use him in a way like Bruce Irvin is if you want to use him in a 4-3. Beasley is crazy talented.
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ChaRisMa


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, a lot of college teams choose to ignore their QBs arm in favor of legs. That's why a tier 1.5 team like Wisky can get their QBs into the league year in and year out--they actually develop them Pro Style.
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ChaRisMa


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'all thought I was crazy when I tagged Dion Jordan with a 3rd.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
Y'all thought I was crazy when I tagged Dion Jordan with a 3rd.


How does him failing a test vindicate you on a prospect eval? lol

Did you know he was going to do PEDs?


FWIW, I didn't like the kid much either.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched Zach Hodges vs Brown to day Shocked Talk about dominating lower competition. That dude wrecked their day. The guy is interested in run defense too. Really interested in him, hopefully he is a SR Bowl invite, because I don't see any real competition he will face this year either.
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Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

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