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looking back at the Alex Smith trade
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49erurtaza


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:45 am    Post subject: looking back at the Alex Smith trade Reply with quote

looking back at it i say we have a chance to have very good players from what we got



Quote:
@Eric_Branch: After draft trades, what #49ers have netted from 2 2nd-round picks from Chiefs for Alex Smith: DL Carradine, RB Hyde, LB Borland, 2015 4th




What you guys think how it turned out for us?


also this


Quote:
@Eric_Branch: RT @AMG1713: They used a pick they got in the Titans deal to trade up for Lemonier, too. < Correct. You are hardcore.

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struby3


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's impossible to tell how it will turn out at this point, but I think that is great value. We potentially got Justin Smith's replacement, Frank Gore's replacement, a psycho STer/solid backup linebacker, and a fourth rounder. All for the former "first round bust."

I wish Alex was still here, but we couldn't afford him and Kap has much higher upside. Add in the players listed above and it could be a huge win for us.
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48 1/2ers


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might not make much sense but I feel that we won't know if we won the trade or not until we know what we have in Kaepernicků.Even if all our picks turn out to be solid starters, if Kaep doesn't succeed then we got the worse end of that trade.

As of right now though I am optimistic we got the better end of the deal.
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NINERFAN_4_LIFE


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is one of those rare trades where both sides feel great about it even in hindsight.

If I had to choose I would say we won because of the sheer amount of players we got but if youre a chiefs fan you cant feel bad about what alex was able to do for you last year. he should be their guy for the next 5-7 years, him and andy reid are a good combination.
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AMG1713


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: looking back at the Alex Smith trade Reply with quote

49erurtaza wrote:



Quote:
@Eric_Branch: RT @AMG1713: They used a pick they got in the Titans deal to trade up for Lemonier, too. < Correct. You are hardcore.


Damn right. Cool
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
It might not make much sense but I feel that we won't know if we won the trade or not until we know what we have in Kaepernicků.Even if all our picks turn out to be solid starters, if Kaep doesn't succeed then we got the worse end of that trade.

As of right now though I am optimistic we got the better end of the deal.


Not necessarily. If Alex doesn't resign with the Chiefs, and if the Chiefs don't win anything this year, then what they gave up (Picks that ended up as Carradine, Hyde, Borland, and the 4th next season (or essentially Stevie Johnson) is certainly less than a 2-year rental that led only to relevance. At the very least, by virtue of getting us to the NFC Championship game in his only full season as a starter, and having not needed our back-up QB (to date and knocking on wood) Kaepernick has equaled the value of what Alex Smith would provide - a solid starting QB. Maybe not what we fully need to get over the hump, but equaled it. In that sense, Alex's only value is as a back-up QB then, and the value of Carradine/Hyde/Borland/4th rounder next year (or Stevie Johnson if you want to look at it that way) would be far greater than a backup QB, even if they all only remain bit players.

At this point, it only relies on the future of Kaepernick if Alex resigns with the Chiefs. I think the Chiefs want that, but right now my understanding is his asking price is high, and if they struggle with a more difficult schedule this season, he's not likely to remain there, making us winners of the trade by default.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
It might not make much sense but I feel that we won't know if we won the trade or not until we know what we have in Kaepernicků.Even if all our picks turn out to be solid starters, if Kaep doesn't succeed then we got the worse end of that trade.

As of right now though I am optimistic we got the better end of the deal.


Not necessarily. If Alex doesn't resign with the Chiefs, and if the Chiefs don't win anything this year, then what they gave up (Picks that ended up as Carradine, Hyde, Borland, and the 4th next season (or essentially Stevie Johnson) is certainly less than a 2-year rental that led only to relevance. At the very least, by virtue of getting us to the NFC Championship game in his only full season as a starter, and having not needed our back-up QB (to date and knocking on wood) Kaepernick has equaled the value of what Alex Smith would provide - a solid starting QB. Maybe not what we fully need to get over the hump, but equaled it. In that sense, Alex's only value is as a back-up QB then, and the value of Carradine/Hyde/Borland/4th rounder next year (or Stevie Johnson if you want to look at it that way) would be far greater than a backup QB, even if they all only remain bit players.

At this point, it only relies on the future of Kaepernick if Alex resigns with the Chiefs. I think the Chiefs want that, but right now my understanding is his asking price is high, and if they struggle with a more difficult schedule this season, he's not likely to remain there, making us winners of the trade by default.


Very much this...nice post.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like a win-win. That's a real haul for us, and an incredible lot of value for our backup QB. On the other hand he took them from worst team in the league to the playoffs in just one year there and there's no way to overestimate the value of a good QB.
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
It might not make much sense but I feel that we won't know if we won the trade or not until we know what we have in Kaepernicků.Even if all our picks turn out to be solid starters, if Kaep doesn't succeed then we got the worse end of that trade.

As of right now though I am optimistic we got the better end of the deal.


Not necessarily. If Alex doesn't resign with the Chiefs, and if the Chiefs don't win anything this year, then what they gave up (Picks that ended up as Carradine, Hyde, Borland, and the 4th next season (or essentially Stevie Johnson) is certainly less than a 2-year rental that led only to relevance. At the very least, by virtue of getting us to the NFC Championship game in his only full season as a starter, and having not needed our back-up QB (to date and knocking on wood) Kaepernick has equaled the value of what Alex Smith would provide - a solid starting QB. Maybe not what we fully need to get over the hump, but equaled it. In that sense, Alex's only value is as a back-up QB then, and the value of Carradine/Hyde/Borland/4th rounder next year (or Stevie Johnson if you want to look at it that way) would be far greater than a backup QB, even if they all only remain bit players.

At this point, it only relies on the future of Kaepernick if Alex resigns with the Chiefs. I think the Chiefs want that, but right now my understanding is his asking price is high, and if they struggle with a more difficult schedule this season, he's not likely to remain there, making us winners of the trade by default.


You wrote it much better than I would have. Alex was a back up here and Kap has surpassed what alex had accomplished(1 playoff wins in 8 yrs vs 4 playoff wins in 1 1/2 seasons). That doesnt take into account the many other players we have acquired as well. And lastly chiefs were hot for manziel which is a sign that the negotiations with alex have not gone well and if he is two and done then they got a good but not great deal similar to what they got for Matt cassell
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefs making a turn around from 2-14 to 11-5 makes giving up two 2nd rounders worth it.

Now, we gave up a back up QB essentially for Hyde, Lemonier, Johnson, Borland, and Carradine? Wow, what else could we ask for? Carradine has the potential to be a future pro bowler but time will tell for all of them as they have accomplished nothing thus far. On paper, the return for Smith looks GREAT though.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
It might not make much sense but I feel that we won't know if we won the trade or not until we know what we have in Kaepernicků.Even if all our picks turn out to be solid starters, if Kaep doesn't succeed then we got the worse end of that trade.

As of right now though I am optimistic we got the better end of the deal.


Not necessarily. If Alex doesn't resign with the Chiefs, and if the Chiefs don't win anything this year, then what they gave up (Picks that ended up as Carradine, Hyde, Borland, and the 4th next season (or essentially Stevie Johnson) is certainly less than a 2-year rental that led only to relevance. At the very least, by virtue of getting us to the NFC Championship game in his only full season as a starter, and having not needed our back-up QB (to date and knocking on wood) Kaepernick has equaled the value of what Alex Smith would provide - a solid starting QB. Maybe not what we fully need to get over the hump, but equaled it. In that sense, Alex's only value is as a back-up QB then, and the value of Carradine/Hyde/Borland/4th rounder next year (or Stevie Johnson if you want to look at it that way) would be far greater than a backup QB, even if they all only remain bit players.

At this point, it only relies on the future of Kaepernick if Alex resigns with the Chiefs. I think the Chiefs want that, but right now my understanding is his asking price is high, and if they struggle with a more difficult schedule this season, he's not likely to remain there, making us winners of the trade by default.


Well at the risk of starting a wildfire, there's one other consideration - which is not doing the trade at all. I can't help but think that there is no way Alex would have forced the ball to Crabs three times in a row at the end of the SB, and again into really good coverage last year. No matter how little any one thinks of Alex (and I'll just leave it at that) there is some non-zero chance we could have gone farther in the playoffs with him. Of the last three playoff seasons that year was the only one in which we had the game in hand and a mistake by somebody other than the QB lost it for us.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Per PFF, Lemonier was the best rookie pass rusher last year per snap. So the eye test didn't fail us on this one even though he didn't get many sacks. The first step is just ridiculous and he should learn a few more moves in the offseason. If Lynch hits his potential and Lemonier takes the next step, it will allow us to overcome the possible loss of Aldon.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Per PFF, Lemonier was the best rookie pass rusher last year per snap. So the eye test didn't fail us on this one even though he didn't get many sacks. The first step is just ridiculous and he should learn a few more moves in the offseason. If Lynch hits his potential and Lemonier takes the next step, it will allow us to overcome the possible loss of Aldon.


He also needs to get a lot stronger. I agree that his quickness off the snap is off the charts, but if he doesn't beat his OT with pure speed they have little difficulty taking him out of the play.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Per PFF, Lemonier was the best rookie pass rusher last year per snap. So the eye test didn't fail us on this one even though he didn't get many sacks. The first step is just ridiculous and he should learn a few more moves in the offseason. If Lynch hits his potential and Lemonier takes the next step, it will allow us to overcome the possible loss of Aldon.


He also needs to get a lot stronger. I agree that his quickness off the snap is off the charts, but if he doesn't beat his OT with pure speed they have little difficulty taking him out of the play.


No, Lem is plenty strong... 27 bench reps with 34.5" arms. It's simply an understanding of leverage and keeping legs churning with balance that needs to improve, as it should.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, but he has ability to really take the next step this upcoming season. We all love Brooks for his all around game, but Lemonier could be the better pass rusher VERY soon.
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