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Elway vs Marino
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Better QB?
Elway
15%
 15%  [ 12 ]
Marino
84%
 84%  [ 66 ]
Total Votes : 78

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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the playoffs, down by 4 with 3 minutes left on your own 20 yard line. That guy.
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PackerPride


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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I'd want Marino
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7DnBrnc53


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
Who has more rings? Feels good to finally be able to argue on this side. Cool

The "ring" argument only holds weight when all other arguments are comparable (statistics, wins, etc.). It's essentially a "tie-breaker". John Elway, was never a good passer, but he was a good quarterback the final 5-6 years of his career. In terms of statistics, winning percentage, regular season accomplishments, etc....John Elway is very average and doesn't really stand out in any facet aside from longevity and durability.

He was Eli Manning before there was Eli Manning.

Well Eli owns Brady's soul, which soul did Elway own? I'll take John "2 rings" Elway over Dan "No Rings" Marino.

What does Brady have to do with anything?? You're sour Laughing

Anyone that knows anything, knows the Terrell Davis won those Super Bowls for the Broncos and not Elway. Over 1200 yards and 11 touchdowns in those SEVEN games.....


Uh, how many SB wins did the Broncos win after Elway left? Exactly. That "Davis carried Elway" argument is very fallacious.

Quote:
(In no order)
Otto
Peyton
Brady
Marino
Montana

were all better than Elway so not seeing him even glimpsing the top 5


Otto Graham and Tom Brady are a result of circumstances (like playing for Paul Brown and Belichick with Ernie Adams). The other three? Possibly. My top-5 in no order would be Johnny U, Montana, Elway, Marino, and Peyton.
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Ambrose


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
That was also Terrell Davis' last healthy season so it clearly makes sense that he was a huge part of them winning those super bowl's.
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MaddHatter


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
Who has more rings? Feels good to finally be able to argue on this side. Cool

The "ring" argument only holds weight when all other arguments are comparable (statistics, wins, etc.). It's essentially a "tie-breaker". John Elway, was never a good passer, but he was a good quarterback the final 5-6 years of his career. In terms of statistics, winning percentage, regular season accomplishments, etc....John Elway is very average and doesn't really stand out in any facet aside from longevity and durability.

He was Eli Manning before there was Eli Manning.

Well Eli owns Brady's soul, which soul did Elway own? I'll take John "2 rings" Elway over Dan "No Rings" Marino.

What does Brady have to do with anything?? You're sour Laughing

Anyone that knows anything, knows the Terrell Davis won those Super Bowls for the Broncos and not Elway. Over 1200 yards and 11 touchdowns in those SEVEN games.....


Uh, how many SB wins did the Broncos win after Elway left? Exactly. That "Davis carried Elway" argument is very fallacious.

Quote:
(In no order)
Otto
Peyton
Brady
Marino
Montana

were all better than Elway so not seeing him even glimpsing the top 5


Otto Graham and Tom Brady are a result of circumstances (like playing for Paul Brown and Belichick with Ernie Adams). The other three? Possibly. My top-5 in no order would be Johnny U, Montana, Elway, Marino, and Peyton.


Wait what... Otto was a result of Paul Brown? LMFAO - GTFO...
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
Who has more rings? Feels good to finally be able to argue on this side. Cool

The "ring" argument only holds weight when all other arguments are comparable (statistics, wins, etc.). It's essentially a "tie-breaker". John Elway, was never a good passer, but he was a good quarterback the final 5-6 years of his career. In terms of statistics, winning percentage, regular season accomplishments, etc....John Elway is very average and doesn't really stand out in any facet aside from longevity and durability.

He was Eli Manning before there was Eli Manning.

Well Eli owns Brady's soul, which soul did Elway own? I'll take John "2 rings" Elway over Dan "No Rings" Marino.

What does Brady have to do with anything?? You're sour Laughing

Anyone that knows anything, knows the Terrell Davis won those Super Bowls for the Broncos and not Elway. Over 1200 yards and 11 touchdowns in those SEVEN games.....


Uh, how many SB wins did the Broncos win after Elway left? Exactly. That "Davis carried Elway" argument is very fallacious.

Quote:
(In no order)
Otto
Peyton
Brady
Marino
Montana

were all better than Elway so not seeing him even glimpsing the top 5


Otto Graham and Tom Brady are a result of circumstances (like playing for Paul Brown and Belichick with Ernie Adams). The other three? Possibly. My top-5 in no order would be Johnny U, Montana, Elway, Marino, and Peyton.

I repeat......1200+ total yards and 11 touchdowns in SEVEN games at about 5.8 yards per touch (every game over 100 yards). What'd Elway do in those games? 1400 yards passing 8 total touchdowns, 3 interceptions (under 200 yards passing in 4 of them).

It's funny how you consider Brady and Graham to be the "result of circumstances" which actually applies more to John Elway. It's no coincidence that his best years ('95-'9Cool were when the team relied upon Terrell Davis to do most of the heavy lifting. Sorry...Davis is the reason the Broncos won those Super Bowls...not Elway.
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Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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7DnBrnc53


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I repeat......1200+ total yards and 11 touchdowns in SEVEN games at about 5.8 yards per touch (every game over 100 yards). What'd Elway do in those games? 1400 yards passing 8 total touchdowns, 3 interceptions (under 200 yards passing in 4 of them).

It's funny how you consider Brady and Graham to be the "result of circumstances" which actually applies more to John Elway. It's no coincidence that his best years ('95-'9Cool were when the team relied upon Terrell Davis to do most of the heavy lifting. Sorry...Davis is the reason the Broncos won those Super Bowls...not Elway.


Uh, Elway started putting up great stats in 1993, when Reeves' antiquated offense was shown the door. TD was at Georgia. He had nothing to do with that. He didn't arrive until two years later.

What did Davis win without Elway? What did Shanahan win without Elway? Nothing.

Here are some other relevant facts for you Elway-bashers:

1. He made two big runs in SB XXIII (where Leroy Butler couldn't stop him) that had a lot to do with the outcome of the game. Now, later, he did have an INT, but I don't see that as much different as what Montana did in SB XXIII (when Billups dropped the pick). Montana just got luckier.

2. In the 1997 and 98 AFC Title Games, Elway turned Howard Griffith (a FB, no less) into a clutch receiver. He also made a clutch pass to Sharpe against the Steelers to put the game away.

3. You talk about Elway not putting up great stats until TD arrived (which isn't true). What about Brady not throwing for over 30 TD's until Moss and Welker arrived? That seems to get ignored.

4. You laugh at what I said about Brady and Graham lucking out due to circumstance, but it is absolutely true. Graham played under Paul Brown, who was ahead of his time. Here are some of the things that he came up with:

1. He was the first to make coaching a year-round occupation, not only for himself, but his staff as well.
2. He came up with the draw play.
3. He was the first coach to extensively use notebooks and classroom techniques in preparing his teams for games.
4. He pioneered the practice of grading players using game film study.
5. He introduced face masks for helmets.
6. He was the first to call plays from the sidelines, rotating guards in and out with the play.
7. He made the first significant use of intelligence tests as a guide to a player's learning potential.
8. He was the first coach to have his players stay at a hotel the night before home games.
9. He used his personnel to its utmost, becoming the first coach to switch some fine running backs to the defensive unit “because they were so good, I didn’t want to waste them on offense.”
10. He developed pass patterns designed to pick holes in the defense, then set to work perfecting a defense that could counteract a pattern passing attack.

The above measures are now common practice, but 65 years ago, they were revolutionary in the coaching world. That gave Graham an advantage that other QB's did not have.

As for Brady, he came in with the right system, with the right team, and the right coach. I don't see him having the same success anywhere else.
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Ambrose


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least Brady hit the 30 TD mark, Elway never did. He never really even came close. In fact Elway had more bad years than not. It's pathetic. Elway is one of the worst "household names" at the QB position ever. Nothing you have said is going to change that fact. You can think he's top 5 all you want but it's never going to be true an he is very lucky Terrell Davis arrived to save his mediocre legacy. Although he could be worse, he could've been Troy Aikman.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
Who has more rings? Feels good to finally be able to argue on this side. Cool

The "ring" argument only holds weight when all other arguments are comparable (statistics, wins, etc.). It's essentially a "tie-breaker". John Elway, was never a good passer, but he was a good quarterback the final 5-6 years of his career. In terms of statistics, winning percentage, regular season accomplishments, etc....John Elway is very average and doesn't really stand out in any facet aside from longevity and durability.

He was Eli Manning before there was Eli Manning.

Well Eli owns Brady's soul, which soul did Elway own? I'll take John "2 rings" Elway over Dan "No Rings" Marino.


Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino
Brad Johnson > Dan Marino

Logic FTW Win

Sounds right to me. BTW, I don't think you know what FTW stands for.


Sounds right to you?

So you honestly think Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were better QBs than Dan Marino? Or are you just trying to blow off a perfectly reasonable counter to the rings argument?
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
As for Brady, he came in with the right system, with the right team, and the right coach. I don't see him having the same success anywhere else.

You make football sound like it's a "science". It's not a computer simulation where you can just plug ANYONE into a system and expect success. It amazes me that there are people who believe that. You could literally say that exact same thing about any successful quarterback in the history of the NFL. It's safe, purely subjective and can't be proven wrong. So naturally you'd adopt it Laughing

Truth is.....John Elway is an average quarterback who's career numbers are simply a compilation of many average seasons. Longevity and durability were his greatest assets and if it weren't for Terrell Davis, he'd be just another Matt Hasselback or Vinny Testaverde.
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jrry32 wrote:
Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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7DnBrnc53


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
As for Brady, he came in with the right system, with the right team, and the right coach. I don't see him having the same success anywhere else.

You make football sound like it's a "science". It's not a computer simulation where you can just plug ANYONE into a system and expect success. It amazes me that there are people who believe that. You could literally say that exact same thing about any successful quarterback in the history of the NFL. It's safe, purely subjective and can't be proven wrong. So naturally you'd adopt it Laughing

Truth is.....John Elway is an average quarterback who's career numbers are simply a compilation of many average seasons. Longevity and durability were his greatest assets and if it weren't for Terrell Davis, he'd be just another Matt Hasselback or Vinny Testaverde.


In Belichick's passing offense, you all but could (except for someone like a Tim Tebow, who can't throw the ball worth spit).

Two times in the 2000's, he had first-time starting QB's lead his team to 11 victories. And, Matt Cassel had better stats in 2008 than Tom did in 2001, his first year as starter.

Quote:
At least Brady hit the 30 TD mark, Elway never did. He never really even came close. In fact Elway had more bad years than not. It's pathetic. Elway is one of the worst "household names" at the QB position ever. Nothing you have said is going to change that fact. You can think he's top 5 all you want but it's never going to be true an he is very lucky Terrell Davis arrived to save his mediocre legacy. Although he could be worse, he could've been Troy Aikman.


Yeah, Brady hit the 30-TD mark after the Pats got someone like Randy Moss, and became, exclusively, a passing team. I give Moss, Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez more credit for that than I do Brady.

Elway had good targets late in his career. Shannon Sharpe is in the Hall of Fame. Ed McCaffrey was underrated, and had 100+ catches once. Rod Smith made three Pro Bowls (and should have made six), had a 100+catch season, and had 70+ receptions nine straight years. However, as good as those guys were, Moss and Gronk were better. Moss should have been the best WR ever, and Gronk could be the best TE ever if he stays healthy.

And, oh by the way, thanks for the rhetoric. That's all that is. No substance or reality.
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FirstDownFaulk


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
As for Brady, he came in with the right system, with the right team, and the right coach. I don't see him having the same success anywhere else.

You make football sound like it's a "science". It's not a computer simulation where you can just plug ANYONE into a system and expect success. It amazes me that there are people who believe that. You could literally say that exact same thing about any successful quarterback in the history of the NFL. It's safe, purely subjective and can't be proven wrong. So naturally you'd adopt it Laughing

Truth is.....John Elway is an average quarterback who's career numbers are simply a compilation of many average seasons. Longevity and durability were his greatest assets and if it weren't for Terrell Davis, he'd be just another Matt Hasselback or Vinny Testaverde.


In Belichick's passing offense, you all but could (except for someone like a Tim Tebow, who can't throw the ball worth spit).

Two times in the 2000's, he had first-time starting QB's lead his team to 11 victories. And, Matt Cassel had better stats in 2008 than Tom did in 2001, his first year as starter.

Quote:
At least Brady hit the 30 TD mark, Elway never did. He never really even came close. In fact Elway had more bad years than not. It's pathetic. Elway is one of the worst "household names" at the QB position ever. Nothing you have said is going to change that fact. You can think he's top 5 all you want but it's never going to be true an he is very lucky Terrell Davis arrived to save his mediocre legacy. Although he could be worse, he could've been Troy Aikman.


Yeah, Brady hit the 30-TD mark after the Pats got someone like Randy Moss, and became, exclusively, a passing team. I give Moss, Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez more credit for that than I do Brady.

Elway had good targets late in his career. Shannon Sharpe is in the Hall of Fame. Ed McCaffrey was underrated, and had 100+ catches once. Rod Smith made three Pro Bowls (and should have made six), had a 100+catch season, and had 70+ receptions nine straight years. However, as good as those guys were, Moss and Gronk were better. Moss should have been the best WR ever, and Gronk could be the best TE ever if he stays healthy.

And, oh by the way, thanks for the rhetoric. That's all that is. No substance or reality.

The Broncos won 11 games in '00....just a full season removed from John Elway taking the snaps. Does your rock solid reasoning for Brady being a "product of the system" also apply to Elway as well?? I mean Shanahan had THREE quarterbacks lead his teams to 11+ victories (Elway, Griese, Plummer)

Dude....seriously....just give up Laughing
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Tom Brady hasn't left NE and proven himself not to be a system QB...so he is one.

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TomBrady589


Joined: 09 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
As for Brady, he came in with the right system, with the right team, and the right coach. I don't see him having the same success anywhere else.

You make football sound like it's a "science". It's not a computer simulation where you can just plug ANYONE into a system and expect success. It amazes me that there are people who believe that. You could literally say that exact same thing about any successful quarterback in the history of the NFL. It's safe, purely subjective and can't be proven wrong. So naturally you'd adopt it Laughing

Truth is.....John Elway is an average quarterback who's career numbers are simply a compilation of many average seasons. Longevity and durability were his greatest assets and if it weren't for Terrell Davis, he'd be just another Matt Hasselback or Vinny Testaverde.


In Belichick's passing offense, you all but could (except for someone like a Tim Tebow, who can't throw the ball worth spit).

Two times in the 2000's, he had first-time starting QB's lead his team to 11 victories. And, Matt Cassel had better stats in 2008 than Tom did in 2001, his first year as starter.

Quote:
At least Brady hit the 30 TD mark, Elway never did. He never really even came close. In fact Elway had more bad years than not. It's pathetic. Elway is one of the worst "household names" at the QB position ever. Nothing you have said is going to change that fact. You can think he's top 5 all you want but it's never going to be true an he is very lucky Terrell Davis arrived to save his mediocre legacy. Although he could be worse, he could've been Troy Aikman.


Yeah, Brady hit the 30-TD mark after the Pats got someone like Randy Moss, and became, exclusively, a passing team. I give Moss, Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez more credit for that than I do Brady.

Elway had good targets late in his career. Shannon Sharpe is in the Hall of Fame. Ed McCaffrey was underrated, and had 100+ catches once. Rod Smith made three Pro Bowls (and should have made six), had a 100+catch season, and had 70+ receptions nine straight years. However, as good as those guys were, Moss and Gronk were better. Moss should have been the best WR ever, and Gronk could be the best TE ever if he stays healthy.

And, oh by the way, thanks for the rhetoric. That's all that is. No substance or reality.

The Broncos won 11 games in '00....just a full season removed from John Elway taking the snaps. Does your rock solid reasoning for Brady being a "product of the system" also apply to Elway as well?? I mean Shanahan had THREE quarterbacks lead his teams to 11+ victories (Elway, Griese, Plummer)

Dude....seriously....just give up Laughing


Laughing Laughing
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Jason_Bengal_Fl


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elway was more athletic, and had a stronger arm.

Marino was better at everything else.
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Raider X


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marino is the better pocket passer.

Elway is a better play maker that can make things happen when nothing is there.

I probably give the edge to Marino. I wish he played with better defenses and a potent run game in his career.
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