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Beating Teams Like the Niners, 'Hawks, Panthers
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Jazzaloha


Joined: 20 Nov 2013
Posts: 1126
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I think the Seahawks struggle most when going up against mobile QB's, and fast receivers who can get behind that secondary with a vertical passing attack. That defense dominates against QB's who are strictly pocket passers and especially when those QB's try to use a horizontal passing attack to win.

Just take a look at their losses last season:

Lost to the Colts: Mobile QB, and a small fast receiver in TY Hilton who embarrassed Sherman that game with 140 yards and 2 TD's, with some big plays deep.

Lost to the 49ers: Mobile QB, no small receiver, but the QB often buys enough time for his receivers to create separation and get open against this stanch secondary.

Lost to the Cardinals: Not a mobile QB, BUT the Cardinals definitely didn't win because of Palmer's superior pocket QB skills (he had 4 interceptions this game). However, one of the biggest plays in the game came on 3rd and 3 with 6 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. The Cardinals were trailing, and on their own 27 yard line. On this play Palmer is able to avoid the rush, escape the pocket, and keep the play alive using his LEGS and completes a throw to Jake Ballard on the sideline for the first down. Also, the game-winning TD was a result of Michael Floyd being able to get behind Seattle's defense and catch a 40 yard pass for the score.

They also had trouble with the Redskins in the 2012 playoffs before RGIII's injury.

Obviously having a good defense and a strong running game helps, but I think this defenses' true Achilles heel is going up against QB's who are able to use their mobility to buy time behind the line of scrimmage and find an open receiver streaking down the field. I think Seattle's offense would give Seattle's defense nightmares.

This team embarrassed the big-named pocket QB's (statues) they faced last year such as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning and Matt Ryan.

This is why I think the Seahawks will have trouble this year with the 49ers, the Packers, the Cowboys, the Redskins and the Panthers (if they get some competent receivers).


To me, their Achilles' heel is the power-running game, coupled with vertical passes, particularly off play action. Make Seattle's secondary defend the run AND then have to cover the pass, particularly the deep routes and then I think you can really get them.

You mentioned the Colts and Niners. They both play the style I'm talking about (at least the Colts did when they beat the Seahawks). As for the Cardinals, the main reason Seattle lost was because their offense was completely unproductive.

They also had trouble against a Tampa Bay team that played smashmouth football; the Rams, playing a similar style, took the game down to the last play; the Panthers playing in that style probably would have one if they didn't fumble on near the end of the game.

More than QB mobility (although, of course, that would make an offense more dangerous), I think a team should be balanced--that is, be at threat at running and passing the ball. And I would try to build the pass off the run, because Seattle's defense is designed to shut down pass-oriented offenses. They're a lot more vulnerable against strong running offenses.

So, for example, when the Packers play the Seahawks, the key isn't going to be Rodger's scrambling as much as the Packers' ability to run the ball--and more importantly--how they use the run and pass to complement each other and keep the defense off balance (something that I don't think the Packers are always good at). If they can do that, then I think they're in a good position to beat the Seahawks. If, instead, the pass the ball 40 times and only run as a change-up, I think their chances of winning go down considerably.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 3698
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazzaloha wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
I think the Seahawks struggle most when going up against mobile QB's, and fast receivers who can get behind that secondary with a vertical passing attack. That defense dominates against QB's who are strictly pocket passers and especially when those QB's try to use a horizontal passing attack to win.

Just take a look at their losses last season:

Lost to the Colts: Mobile QB, and a small fast receiver in TY Hilton who embarrassed Sherman that game with 140 yards and 2 TD's, with some big plays deep.

Lost to the 49ers: Mobile QB, no small receiver, but the QB often buys enough time for his receivers to create separation and get open against this stanch secondary.

Lost to the Cardinals: Not a mobile QB, BUT the Cardinals definitely didn't win because of Palmer's superior pocket QB skills (he had 4 interceptions this game). However, one of the biggest plays in the game came on 3rd and 3 with 6 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. The Cardinals were trailing, and on their own 27 yard line. On this play Palmer is able to avoid the rush, escape the pocket, and keep the play alive using his LEGS and completes a throw to Jake Ballard on the sideline for the first down. Also, the game-winning TD was a result of Michael Floyd being able to get behind Seattle's defense and catch a 40 yard pass for the score.

They also had trouble with the Redskins in the 2012 playoffs before RGIII's injury.

Obviously having a good defense and a strong running game helps, but I think this defenses' true Achilles heel is going up against QB's who are able to use their mobility to buy time behind the line of scrimmage and find an open receiver streaking down the field. I think Seattle's offense would give Seattle's defense nightmares.

This team embarrassed the big-named pocket QB's (statues) they faced last year such as Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning and Matt Ryan.

This is why I think the Seahawks will have trouble this year with the 49ers, the Packers, the Cowboys, the Redskins and the Panthers (if they get some competent receivers).


To me, their Achilles' heel is the power-running game, coupled with vertical passes, particularly off play action. Make Seattle's secondary defend the run AND then have to cover the pass, particularly the deep routes and then I think you can really get them.

You mentioned the Colts and Niners. They both play the style I'm talking about (at least the Colts did when they beat the Seahawks). As for the Cardinals, the main reason Seattle lost was because their offense was completely unproductive.

They also had trouble against a Tampa Bay team that played smashmouth football; the Rams, playing a similar style, took the game down to the last play; the Panthers playing in that style probably would have one if they didn't fumble on near the end of the game.

More than QB mobility (although, of course, that would make an offense more dangerous), I think a team should be balanced--that is, be at threat at running and passing the ball. And I would try to build the pass off the run, because Seattle's defense is designed to shut down pass-oriented offenses. They're a lot more vulnerable against strong running offenses.

So, for example, when the Packers play the Seahawks, the key isn't going to be Rodger's scrambling as much as the Packers' ability to run the ball--and more importantly--how they use the run and pass to complement each other and keep the defense off balance (something that I don't think the Packers are always good at). If they can do that, then I think they're in a good position to beat the Seahawks. If, instead, the pass the ball 40 times and only run as a change-up, I think their chances of winning go down considerably.


I agree. I said something very similar earlier in this thread after the post you quoted.

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:

I'm not saying those teams are better than Seattle Laughing

Just that their personnel as presently constructed will give Seattle the most trouble. Much more trouble than a statue QB and a dink and dunk, horizontal passing attack will.

One more thing I forgot to add is that having a RB like Lacy, Gore, and Morris will definitely help to keep the Seattle defense off-balance as well. Hard-nosed running backs (something the Packers didn't have last time they played Seattle) who will force the linebackers and safeties to play closer to the LOS, which will increase the likelihood of the Seattle DBs getting beat deep.


I think it's a combination of all those factors.
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Jazzaloha


Joined: 20 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:

I agree. I said something very similar earlier in this thread after the post you quoted.


Sorry, I missed that.

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:

I'm not saying those teams are better than Seattle Laughing

Just that their personnel as presently constructed will give Seattle the most trouble. Much more trouble than a statue QB and a dink and dunk, horizontal passing attack will.

One more thing I forgot to add is that having a RB like Lacy, Gore, and Morris will definitely help to keep the Seattle defense off-balance as well. Hard-nosed running backs (something the Packers didn't have last time they played Seattle) who will force the linebackers and safeties to play closer to the LOS, which will increase the likelihood of the Seattle DBs getting beat deep.


I think it's a combination of all those factors.[/quote]

To me, the play calling (and formations) are just as important as having that hard-nosed RB. Lacy and Morris can be wasted if the coaches aren't patient; or if they fail to mix in running and passing effectively, becoming too predictable. The impression I get is that both Gruden and McCarthy can get away from the run. It's important that they not give up on the run when it's not having immediate success. (That can be difficult when you've got someone like Rodgers, who can single-handedly take over at times.)

The Niners, on the other hand, are patient with the run (which paid off big time against the Seahawks in their second meeting).
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be coached by chip kelly.


Going to sweep those 3 teams this coming season.


Wink
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redforman


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try to beat them at their own game. Defense. Pound the rock. Don't turn the ball over. It's a proven recipe for success. Good luck doing it though. Tough task
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BattleofSeattle


Joined: 01 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
BattleofSeattle wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:

I'm not saying those teams are better than Seattle Laughing

Just that their personnel as presently constructed will give Seattle the most trouble. Much more trouble than a statue QB and a dink and dunk, horizontal passing attack will.

One more thing I forgot to add is that having a RB like Lacy, Gore, and Morris will definitely help to keep the Seattle defense off-balance as well. Hard-nosed running backs (something the Packers didn't have last time they played Seattle) who will force the linebackers and safeties to play closer to the LOS, which will increase the likelihood of the Seattle DBs getting beat deep.


I agree with that to an extent. But, I believe both of Cam Newton's worst career games came against the Seahawks in Carolina. We held him to 125 yards passing last year if I remember correctly, a career low. Kaepernick has also struggled against the Seahawks, particularly at CenturyLink.


I'm struggling to find your point in your last couple of posts. Could you clarify exactly what point youre trying to get across? Are you disagreeing and saying they wont struggle against those teams? Are you agreeing that they will? Everyone knows Seattle is a great team. And everyone knows other teams will struggle against them. So... i mean... what are you getting at exactly?


I was making a counter-point to the OP's implication that Seattle has struggled or will struggle against mobile quarterbacks (or offenses) of teams like San Francisco, Carolina, and Washington, to which I replied with evidence that Seattle has not (nor indicated that they will) struggle. I agreed that those teams personnel can potentially give Seattle trouble and pose issues, but not that they consistently have or definitively will.
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andrettifamily wrote:
Luck>Newton>Kaep>Griffin>Pryor>Manuel>Smith>Wilson. Gonna ride with history. 5'10 QB's dont win superbowls. Plug any of the above guys into the seahawks and that team would be better off without Rustle Wilson.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no doubt in my mind the Packers offense would have more success against our defense than the Broncos.
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sherm


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:

Green Bay can probably destroy all of those defenses due to the addition of Lacy and Rodgers of course but it is too bad GB can't defend even them since they can't defend the read option even when they know it. It is kind of sad really.


Wait...didn't the 49ers just beat the Packers in the playoffs, or did I dream that? Haven't the 49ers beaten the Packers like the last 4-5 times they've played?

Yeah Kap own DAT cash. Wink
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Hunter2_1


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like everyones replies to your question, OP. I think I read you wanted personnel specifics instead of tactics?

So, maybe...Panthers look like theyve purposely developed a large receiving core with all their receivers over 6ft including a 6'5er....some have mentioned this is to combat Seattles powerful secondary (I dont think it will work)

I think Gronk was a handful against Panthers (and most teams tbh) but maybe thats something to work with; huge intimidating receiver down the middle.

Ultimately though, to beat 49ers and Seattle; i want to see teams getting in their faces and intimidating them even harder. Play at their own game, but a lot harder! Try and get under the skin of Sherman et al, force penalties, rough them up back....not saying it will work, but Id like to see it. Teams let themselves get intimidated against these. Cant see Ray Lewis' Ravens standing for that sort of deal lol
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BattleofSeattle


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunter2_1 wrote:

Ultimately though, to beat 49ers and Seattle; i want to see teams getting in their faces and intimidating them even harder. Play at their own game, but a lot harder! Try and get under the skin of Sherman et al, force penalties, rough them up back....not saying it will work, but Id like to see it. Teams let themselves get intimidated against these. Cant see Ray Lewis' Ravens standing for that sort of deal lol


Good luck with that.

The core of Seattle's identity is physical, hard-hitting, aggressive, and competitive play—our entire division mirrors that philosophy. Every NFC West divisional game is a battle. The 49ers, Rams, and Cardinals always play us tough. The Panthers did. The Saints did in the playoffs. We went 8-2 against those teams last season, including playoffs. If you think you're going to easily push this team around and intimidate them, you're going to be in for a major disappointment.
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andrettifamily wrote:
Luck>Newton>Kaep>Griffin>Pryor>Manuel>Smith>Wilson. Gonna ride with history. 5'10 QB's dont win superbowls. Plug any of the above guys into the seahawks and that team would be better off without Rustle Wilson.
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Perfundle


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hunter2_1 wrote:
Ultimately though, to beat 49ers and Seattle; i want to see teams getting in their faces and intimidating them even harder. Play at their own game, but a lot harder! Try and get under the skin of Sherman et al, force penalties, rough them up back....not saying it will work, but Id like to see it. Teams let themselves get intimidated against these. Cant see Ray Lewis' Ravens standing for that sort of deal lol

That is exactly how St. Louis played Seattle in the last game of the season. Here is a full list of 15-yard penalties they incurred (some declined or offsetting):

E.Sims, Unnecessary Roughness
C.Reynolds, Unnecessary Roughness
R.Armstrong, Unnecessary Roughness
J.Laurinaitis, Taunting
A.Ogletree, Unnecessary Roughness
A.Ogletree, Unsportsmanlike Conduct
K.Langford, Unsportsmanlike Conduct
K.Langford, Disqualification
R.Armstrong, Unsportsmanlike Conduct
D.Stewart, Unsportsmanlike Conduct

Seattle only committed two such penalties on their end. St. Louis ended up losing 27-9 and allowed the main target of their intimidation (Golden Tate, because of his taunting on the 80-yard touchdown in the previous game) to catch more than 7 passes and gain over 120 yards (both personal records for him) and score a touchdown in practically the exact same manner well into the fourth quarter. Intimidation without talent to back it up doesn't work.
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Zithers


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the rams are incredibly undisciplined. steve smith and mike mitchell got the rams to commit several unsportsmanlike penalties. chris long was thrown out. harvey dahl was going off the deep end and i have no idea how he wasnt ejected.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While we unfortunately took a tough week 17 loss that kept us from finally getting over the Harbaugh hump, Arizona was able to pick up wins over both Carolina and Seattle this season and our method of doing so was really simple: We hit the quarterback for four quarters. Our sack, hit and pressure numbers in those two wins were truly off the charts.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darnell wrote:
From a Hawks fans perspective:

1. Mobility at QB.
2. Commit to power run game.
3. Have a version of Hilton,Wallace,Jackson, Cooks type guy
4. You need LBers as fast as Daryl Washington, and ends as athletic as Quinn/Aldon
5. Don't shoot yourself in the foot on special teams
6. Be willing to punch back; it is crucial to approach that matchup with a San Fran level of violence/anger in order to match.

I feel that the key reasons why Denver got blown out, and why the outcome would have been the same against the 49ers were:

1. soft/slow offense
2. lack of mobility at qb
3. qb's lack of arm strength to threaten Thomas and the deep 3rd
4. lack of power run game
5. crappy play at RT

it doesn't seem that Denver has addressed those problems either.


Well, two of those "problems" revolve around Peyton Manning, so I'm not sure how you suggest they correct them.

Montee Ball is now the starter, and he is the power back (should have gotten more carries in the SB), so that goes towards the run game.

Orlando Franklin has been moved from RT to Guard, and Chris Clark is sliding to RT.

The team has stated this offseason repeatedly that they are trying more to achieve balance offensively more than last year, including a more pronounced running game.

So yeah, they're addressing it.
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