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Seahawks trade for Terrell Pryor
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Django


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also for those who say there is NO WAY Pryor beats out Jackson.

Wasnt Flynn outperforming Jackson in Seattle? Didnt Pryor just beat out Flynn last fall?

Its not impossible.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Django wrote:
Also for those who say there is NO WAY Pryor beats out Jackson.

Wasnt Flynn outperforming Jackson in Seattle? Didnt Pryor just beat out Flynn last fall?

Its not impossible.
Flynn out performed Jackson only because Jackson didn't play. We knew what Jackson was, and that's a backup. Jackson is the ideal backup for this team, they just signed him for over 1M.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One issue completely ignored in the Raiders forum, and I'll try to put it forward here, is that Pryor lacks all of the physicality needed for a position switch. It was like screaming to deaf ears.

Aside from an excellent open field stiff arm, Pryor is not at all physical with tacklers or in any other discernible way. I cannot imagine him undergoing the physical rigors of all the nuances of a TE or WR position. Between beating corners off the line, blocking, shielding defenders, breaking tackles, there's not one thing at all about watching Pryor on the field that suggests he has any capacity to do any of those things.

He looks and plays like a QB. He is a QB. He's just a QB with the ultimate athletic build. But it's a tremendous stretch to think that means he is a receiver of some kind. He's not.
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S&B Bleeder


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always been a supporter of Pryor and took far too much heat because of it.
I do take exception to the comment that Pryor is not physical with tacklers. That can be construed in a few different ways but the point I'm approaching is the fact that once he starts running a tackler has to be sure handed and that means two hands and two arms to take him down. Too many tried to corral him with one arm without success. He is much stronger than he appears as he has a tall lean frame.
There was much criticism regarding whether he could switch positions. I wanted him as a receiver in the red zone. He's 6'4" plus with a 40 inch vertical. Someone posted an Ohio State tape of him doing just that and scoring a TD. As it was never tried we don't know for certain and as its been stated in the past "one who is certain is certainly a fool".
He has to come to the realization that his tenure in the NFL is tenuous and unless there's a major change in his ability to play QB he may have to broaden his approach to this game.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S&B Bleeder wrote:
I have always been a supporter of Pryor and took far too much heat because of it.
I do take exception to the comment that Pryor is not physical with tacklers. That can be construed in a few different ways but the point I'm approaching is the fact that once he starts running a tackler has to be sure handed and that means two hands and two arms to take him down. Too many tried to corral him with one arm without success. He is much stronger than he appears as he has a tall lean frame.
There was much criticism regarding whether he could switch positions. I wanted him as a receiver in the red zone. He's 6'4" plus with a 40 inch vertical. Someone posted an Ohio State tape of him doing just that and scoring a TD. As it was never tried we don't know for certain and as its been stated in the past "one who is certain is certainly a fool".
He has to come to the realization that his tenure in the NFL is tenuous and unless there's a major change in his ability to play QB he may have to broaden his approach to this game.


I guess i should have been clearer. Yes, I meant it in a different way. He is very hard to take down in the pocket. However, once on the run or in any sort of setting that a WR or TE might be in, he's not physical at all. I think of it this way - I've never seen him even attempt a block forward of the line of scrimmage, a requisite TE job. I've never seen him fight for an extra yard, also a WR and TE requisite job. Never seen him bull for extra yardage, same thing, a receiver's job. And so on. All of those small facets of those positions, I've seen no indication from Pryor he is capable of them. Just because Ben Rothlisberger is incredibly difficult to bring down in the pocket, which is where Pryor's physicality shows up best, does that mean he is the same in the open field? Or fighting for a first down? I don't recall Rothlisberger translating that to when he is on the run, it's simply a different issue altogether. Much like I would not put Ben at WR, nor would I say Pryor is fit for that either.

And that does no even begin to mention whether or not he has a capacity to block consistently, run and understand routes with any precision, and execute the myriad requirements of a WR on every play that ISNT a one or two time a game gadget pass.

Just because he caught a TD or two as a decoy on a gadget play in his freshman year of college does not mean he can be an NFL WR. And just because he has an athletic build suited to it does not mean that either. It's a general disservice to the hard work and effort NFL WRs and TEs put in to play at the level they do.
Tim Tebow had a far greater chance of a position switch, and I only say that because he was noticeably more physical than Pryor with tacklers in general. And I personally doubt Tebow had much of a legitimate chance to convert to anything more than a gadget play average to below average fullback.
Marcel Reece took 2 years to learn to play fullback. And this is a guy who has shown a high propensity for utility and general football ability across different positions, as well as a guy having a background as an offensive skill player. Assume it takes Pryor at least twice as long to do the same, if he can at all which I doubt.
In my opinion, and it is my opinion, Pryor takes 5 years to become a mediocre WR and 5 to become a mediocre QB. What a shame, but I just don't see the way for this guy.

Joe Flacco caught a long pass against Trevor Scott a handful of years ago. Though I wouldn't line him up wide 55 snaps a game.
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S&B Bleeder


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your opinion is well stated and quite the diatribe. Much of what you say is true but in most cases we haven't seen him in such a roll.
I can't say that I've seen him as a blocker. I don't know if he can run routes and I doubt that he can as well as many WR's. We haven't had a chance to see him fight for a ball as a WR so we can't say he doesn't possess that ability.
I have seen him beyond the line of scrimmage and I will say he is very difficult to bring down, a feat most wideouts wish they possessed and few do.
I will take exception to your comment that he doesn't fight for yards. I've seen it many times while running downfield. We can't place him in a category with a 5'10" 230 pound running back whose is known for a punishing style.
He is known for breaking tackles. Running is his game and he is very good at it. Unfortunately we've seen the opposition defense this style. If a team such as Seattle has an effective passing game the box could not be stacked.
There is so much we don't know about him but I'll be the first to confess that everything I expected of him didn't come to pass. I blame that on the Raiders more so than on Pryor. During his tenure we had a terrible team especially the Oline and he was unable to develop an effective passing game. We shouldn't discount anything that he tries to accomplish based solely on the fact we haven't seen him attempt it.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-Hawkin wrote:
I still agree with Theory- He's been pretty vocal about NOT changing positions. Unless that's changed, this is still a head scratching move to me, as I see no possibility of him beating out TJak. Some wildcat stuff sure, but he's gotta contribute somewhere else to make the 53. WR or TE seem like no brainers, but...


John Schneider confirmed that they'll try him in a "slash" role (meaning multiple positions) so I have to assume they've spoken with Terrelle about it and gauged his willingness before making the trade.


And holyghost, how many QBs do you see blocking downfield and fighting for those extra yards on a consistent basis. Pryor, due to his positional responsibilities, has a QBs mindset. That means limit contact and limit the potential for injury. That doesn't mean he's soft or can't play a more physical brand, it just means he's being instructed to do otherwise.

Not saying he absolutely would adopt a more physical mindset, just saying I don't agree with your deductive reasoning.
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe what you want, I can certainly see there's a set of individuals who will adopt the mindset they want to regardless.
It's a disservice to the guys who play in the NFL to assume Pryor can all of a sudden be a receiver. Like it's no big deal. That's cool, and more power to him if he accomplishes it. But don't be surprised if it takes him the 6-8 years it takes everyone else to develop - 3-4 yrs. college and 3 years pro. I've definitely said my piece.
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SoS


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Believe what you want, I can certainly see there's a set of individuals who will adopt the mindset they want to regardless.
It's a disservice to the guys who play in the NFL to assume Pryor can all of a sudden be a receiver. Like it's no big deal. That's cool, and more power to him if he accomplishes it. But don't be surprised if it takes him the 6-8 years it takes everyone else to develop - 3-4 yrs. college and 3 years pro. I've definitely said my piece.


I see where you're coming from, but we see basketball players who get drafted to play TE all the time. It's not a disservice to the guys who actually played football, it's a front office covering all of its bases in finding the best talent.
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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holyghost


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Believe what you want, I can certainly see there's a set of individuals who will adopt the mindset they want to regardless.
It's a disservice to the guys who play in the NFL to assume Pryor can all of a sudden be a receiver. Like it's no big deal. That's cool, and more power to him if he accomplishes it. But don't be surprised if it takes him the 6-8 years it takes everyone else to develop - 3-4 yrs. college and 3 years pro. I've definitely said my piece.


I see where you're coming from, but we see basketball players who get drafted to play TE all the time. It's not a disservice to the guys who actually played football, it's a front office covering all of its bases in finding the best talent.


Basketball players who played college football though, with some basketball experience? They're not college basketball players, you make it sound like that as if they're right off the court. They're college football players too, who played basketball.

And Pryor isn't a rook. He's 3 years in. Even by the standards of the TEs you mentioned, he's at best 5 years behind them if they had 2 years of college play.

Pryor's a hard worker. If he is willing and able (both willing and able are separately not to be taken lightly), the best he can hope for is 3 years developing. Into what, is my question..
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SoS


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
SoS wrote:
holyghost wrote:
Believe what you want, I can certainly see there's a set of individuals who will adopt the mindset they want to regardless.
It's a disservice to the guys who play in the NFL to assume Pryor can all of a sudden be a receiver. Like it's no big deal. That's cool, and more power to him if he accomplishes it. But don't be surprised if it takes him the 6-8 years it takes everyone else to develop - 3-4 yrs. college and 3 years pro. I've definitely said my piece.


I see where you're coming from, but we see basketball players who get drafted to play TE all the time. It's not a disservice to the guys who actually played football, it's a front office covering all of its bases in finding the best talent.


Basketball players who played college football though, with some basketball experience? They're not college basketball players, you make it sound like that as if they're right off the court. They're college football players too, who played basketball.

And Pryor isn't a rook. He's 3 years in. Even by the standards of the TEs you mentioned, he's at best 5 years behind them if they had 2 years of college play.

Pryor's a hard worker. If he is willing and able (both willing and able are separately not to be taken lightly), the best he can hope for is 3 years developing. Into what, is my question..


I think you're trying too hard to consider Pryor turning into some kind of starter down the road. That's not what we're looking for. We traded a 7th. We'll be looking for a gadget weapon that can hurt teams with his athleticism. We see all the time guys who are not necessarily good at any one position but valuable as a part-time weapon. With Pryor's H/W/S combination, we should be able to find ways to utilize his athleticism if he accepts that role.
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If I am a starting QB and my back up is Kellen Clemens..i would only have one question...."Turn up for what?"
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Django


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
C-Hawkin wrote:
I still agree with Theory- He's been pretty vocal about NOT changing positions. Unless that's changed, this is still a head scratching move to me, as I see no possibility of him beating out TJak. Some wildcat stuff sure, but he's gotta contribute somewhere else to make the 53. WR or TE seem like no brainers, but...


John Schneider confirmed that they'll try him in a "slash" role (meaning multiple positions) so I have to assume they've spoken with Terrelle about it and gauged his willingness before making the trade.


And holyghost, how many QBs do you see blocking downfield and fighting for those extra yards on a consistent basis. Pryor, due to his positional responsibilities, has a QBs mindset. That means limit contact and limit the potential for injury. That doesn't mean he's soft or can't play a more physical brand, it just means he's being instructed to do otherwise.

Not saying he absolutely would adopt a more physical mindset, just saying I don't agree with your deductive reasoning.


No he didnt. He said they've had no discussions about moving Pryor around, however, if there was any guy that could do it may be him. He then said, that's probably to much fantasy football as it's incredibly difficult to do such a thing.

He's a 3rd sting QB/Wildcat QB more than likely. Not full position change.
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Django


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.seahawks.net/download/file.php?id=4158
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Django


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
One issue completely ignored in the Raiders forum, and I'll try to put it forward here, is that Pryor lacks all of the physicality needed for a position switch. It was like screaming to deaf ears.

Aside from an excellent open field stiff arm, Pryor is not at all physical with tacklers or in any other discernible way. I cannot imagine him undergoing the physical rigors of all the nuances of a TE or WR position. Between beating corners off the line, blocking, shielding defenders, breaking tackles, there's not one thing at all about watching Pryor on the field that suggests he has any capacity to do any of those things.

He looks and plays like a QB. He is a QB. He's just a QB with the ultimate athletic build. But it's a tremendous stretch to think that means he is a receiver of some kind. He's not.


Yea, even Raiders coaches dont think he's physical enough to play TE via John Middlekauff.

Truth be told. The only guy I think could make that transition.....Cam Newton. Not that he needs to with how well he's playing QB.
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