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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25268
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluemushrooms wrote:
Andre Williams isn't comparable to Legarette Blount
.

Quote:
He hits holes extremely fast and when he makes a decision on where to run he does it at full speed. My concern is his mediocre blocking, lack of catching ability, and ball security


Sure he's not comparable to Blount?
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruschidawg wrote:
I know the mock is kinda out there. It's not really who I'd want to see the Pats take but I'm just trying to guess what Bill is going to do. As far as the KPL thing, I think it's laughable that people almost get offended that I have us taking a kid in the 6th round. Yes, he has faults and weaknesses but he's a 6th rounder for god's sake! With later picks, I always want production at the college level.


My problem is that he's a special teamer with very limited and situational defensive value and he's the only LB in your draft. This is a roster with 0 quality backups at LB. Steve Beauharnais and Ja'Gared Davis are 1 injury away from being full time starters.

If you find that to be a laughable objection....so be it. As a 6th rounder, I have no problem with Pierre-Louis because that's the part of the draft where special teams only types with longshot defensive value are selected. But saying he's a replacement for Dane Fletcher and not including another LB is a valid objection IMO.
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bluemushrooms


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
Andre Williams isn't comparable to Legarette Blount
.

Quote:
He hits holes extremely fast and when he makes a decision on where to run he does it at full speed. My concern is his mediocre blocking, lack of catching ability, and ball security


Sure he's not comparable to Blount?


Williams has no lateral agility...he's not going to slow down to try and mislead defenders like Blount or reverse. Blount takes a little more time to watch the holes develop, and then begins acceleration while hitting the hole. Andre Williams is already almost at top speed when he gets to the hole and he only goes north south; Blount had more agility or at least was willing to be flexible...we've seen him do a reverse in preseason, hide behind blockers to wait for holes to develop, etc.
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bruschidawg


Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
bruschidawg wrote:
I know the mock is kinda out there. It's not really who I'd want to see the Pats take but I'm just trying to guess what Bill is going to do. As far as the KPL thing, I think it's laughable that people almost get offended that I have us taking a kid in the 6th round. Yes, he has faults and weaknesses but he's a 6th rounder for god's sake! With later picks, I always want production at the college level.


My problem is that he's a special teamer with very limited and situational defensive value and he's the only LB in your draft. This is a roster with 0 quality backups at LB. Steve Beauharnais and Ja'Gared Davis are 1 injury away from being full time starters.

If you find that to be a laughable objection....so be it. As a 6th rounder, I have no problem with Pierre-Louis because that's the part of the draft where special teams only types with longshot defensive value are selected. But saying he's a replacement for Dane Fletcher and not including another LB is a valid objection IMO.


Special teamer only is your opinion. I don't find that to be the case. I think he can player in this league. Good against the run...not really. Then again, the run is becoming less and less more important nowadays. It seems like very few teams use the run to kill the clock like everyone used.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25268
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruschidawg wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
bruschidawg wrote:
I know the mock is kinda out there. It's not really who I'd want to see the Pats take but I'm just trying to guess what Bill is going to do. As far as the KPL thing, I think it's laughable that people almost get offended that I have us taking a kid in the 6th round. Yes, he has faults and weaknesses but he's a 6th rounder for god's sake! With later picks, I always want production at the college level.


My problem is that he's a special teamer with very limited and situational defensive value and he's the only LB in your draft. This is a roster with 0 quality backups at LB. Steve Beauharnais and Ja'Gared Davis are 1 injury away from being full time starters.

If you find that to be a laughable objection....so be it. As a 6th rounder, I have no problem with Pierre-Louis because that's the part of the draft where special teams only types with longshot defensive value are selected. But saying he's a replacement for Dane Fletcher and not including another LB is a valid objection IMO.


Special teamer only is your opinion. I don't find that to be the case. I think he can player in this league. Good against the run...not really. Then again, the run is becoming less and less more important nowadays. It seems like very few teams use the run to kill the clock like everyone used.


So how does his skill set differ from Don Davis' or Tracy White's? Small LB's who can run but can't do much else. You think he has the ability to match up with decent inside WR or bigger TE? Because I don't see that at all in his college experience.

He lacks any real NFL LB ability and his coverage skills aren't anything special - one of the reasons he converted to LB.

Backup LB who can't play the run - and I can't imagine Pierre-Louis ever being useful in that regard - aren't desirable entities. They're bottom of the depth chart special teams guys.

He might be better off losing weight and going back to S because I don't see much room for bulking up on his frame. Not without losing a bit of athleticism.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not Buchannon's biggest fan, but you could argue there's plenty of room for a banger at Strong Safety with Revis coming in.
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m haynes


Joined: 29 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
4.) Andre Williams - RB BC - replacing Blount is needed and Williams is a load that runs violently. I think he'd be a good fit.


I am a big fan of Williams and BC and I would not take him before the 7th round.

Here why.
1. BC line was tremendous and he ran though some huge holes.
2. He is what he is a downhill runner with limited lateral moves.
3. He has the worst hand I have even seen. He catches like he has boxing gloves on.
4. I not sure his skills will translate to the pros. Some of the team he played were not elite college teams.
5. I'm not that concerned with a back that will run out the clock.
6. No way to use a 4th round pick especially in this draft.
7. There are other backs that will be there, Storm Johnson, Freeman. That have much more to offer. I would take the kid from Stanford if I needed a big back. He can catch and pass block.

I love to see him get a shot with the Pats but is better as a FA or a 7th round pick.

Willams, look at the moves and the holes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uT4-GIHGow
Here comes the Storm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIojiqIkdK0
Here a look at some back that the Pats could look at.
http://nesn.com/2014/03/patriots-potential-draft-picks-bishop-sankey-marion-grice-fit-at-running-back/


Last edited by m haynes on Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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m haynes


Joined: 29 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I wrong? I see no urgent need for a safety? I like the way Harman played I thought he was really good for a rookie. Very impressed.

I would take one in the draft only if one of the highly rated one fell in our laps. I do not see anyone with value in the (29th) 1st round. Example Jimmie Ward is there with our 2nd round pick.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bucannon is overrated. He's one of those guys who is a big hitter but a pretty poor overall tackler. He gets caught out of position against ball carriers and just kind of flings himself at the runner. A bit like Chung or Meriweather in that regard - recklessly aggressive in his hitting and whiffs way too often.

He also sucks in coverage. His change of direction is outright bad for today's NFL. 20 years ago, he'd have been a very useful player. Nowadays, I think he has to go to a scheme which uses the S in the box a lot because he's always going to struggle backpeddling and turning to track the ball or run with a receiver.

In New England's 2 safety scheme which is left/right not free/strong, I don't see him as a good fit - we've seen that type of player fail recently and I'm not interested in watching another big hitting, poor tackling, poor coverage player. As a 3rd safety who plays in nickel formations closer to the line, he would have value. But you don't take that type of guy in the 1st round.

He might be able to fix his tackling (though sloppy tacklers rarely actually clean up their technique) but his hips are way too stiff to think he can cover well in the NFL.
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m haynes


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Pierre-Louis, I have watched BC for years and he is not one of the LBs from this school that will surprise you at the next level. EX Stephen Boyd
There is no way I would take him.
1. He a chase LB.
2. BC plays zone 99.9% of the time. He drops back 10 yards or blitzes.
3. He will get killed at the point of attack.
4. There is no way he could cover the slot or TE.
5. He is not physical.
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m haynes


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Bucannon is overrated. He's one of those guys who is a big hitter but a pretty poor overall tackler. He gets caught out of position against ball carriers and just kind of flings himself at the runner. A bit like Chung or Meriweather in that regard - recklessly aggressive in his hitting and whiffs way too often.

He also sucks in coverage. His change of direction is outright bad for today's NFL. 20 years ago, he'd have been a very useful player. Nowadays, I think he has to go to a scheme which uses the S in the box a lot because he's always going to struggle backpeddling and turning to track the ball or run with a receiver.

In New England's 2 safety scheme which is left/right not free/strong, I don't see him as a good fit - we've seen that type of player fail recently and I'm not interested in watching another big hitting, poor tackling, poor coverage player. As a 3rd safety who plays in nickel formations closer to the line, he would have value. But you don't take that type of guy in the 1st round.

He might be able to fix his tackling (though sloppy tacklers rarely actually clean up their technique) but his hips are way too stiff to think he can cover well in the NFL.
I agree 1000% I watched several videos and he is exactly what you have said. I thought he was terrible.
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bluemushrooms


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m haynes wrote:
Quote:
4.) Andre Williams - RB BC - replacing Blount is needed and Williams is a load that runs violently. I think he'd be a good fit.


I am a big fan of Williams and BC and I would not take him before the 7th round.

Here why.
1. BC line was tremendous and he ran though some huge holes.
2. He is what he is a downhill runner with limited lateral moves.
3. He has the worst hand I have even seen. He catches like he has boxing gloves on.
4. I not sure his skills will translate to the pros. Some of the team he played were not elite college teams.
5. I'm not that concerned with a back that will run out the clock.
6. No way to use a 4th round pick especially in this draft.
7. There are other backs that will be there, Storm Johnson, Freeman. That have much more to offer. I would take the kid from Stanford if I needed a big back. He can catch and pass block.

I love to see him get a shot with the Pats but is better as a FA or a 7th round pick.

Willams, look at the moves and the holes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uT4-GIHGow
Here comes the Storm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIojiqIkdK0
Here a look at some back that the Pats could look at.
http://nesn.com/2014/03/patriots-potential-draft-picks-bishop-sankey-marion-grice-fit-at-running-back/


I think he's worth it in the 6th but no earlier....unless scouts are seeing things I'm not. His acceleration is very good and he hits holes hard. As long as the O-line can make even a crease of space he should be able to get consistently decent yardage each time; which is why I think he'd be worth a shot in the 6th.
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