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How Would You Feel About Logan Ryan at Safety?
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Neither safety would be in the box. The Patriots want to play with two cover safeties now. Guregian reported it last week.

You mean conjectured, not reported, as there is no way she has any information on the matter at this point. And even if it was true, that must mean they have a hell of a plan to bolster the front seven if they're going to play without a safety in the box regularly, because right now, their run defense is a disaster waiting to happen without some serious reinforcements up front and no safety that can be a force in run support.


Guregian has good sources, and multiple others jumped off it and confirmed. So I wouldn't call it conjectured. Guregian is one of the few Patriots reporters who I don't think panders for attention, so I'd trust her.

I don't think the Patriots are as concerned with the front seven as some fans seem to be. It sounds like they're fine with Wilfork and Siliga at nose tackle in a rotation and Hightower coming up in support. They may add one other ILB to help, but it seems like they're more concerned with pass defense rather than run defense. They want to add a pass rushing DT, not a run stuffer.

I agree that the current plan is definitely pass heavy, but it does seem like that's how the league is trending, and that may be how the Patriots end up going.
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derekstanggt


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not be thrilled to have Ryan move to S. He's a CB first, and I don't think his skills would translate like McCourty's did. Harmon looked decent in the limited time he played last season. Now in his second year, and with another training camp, I think he'll be fine as the starter. He'll definitely be the weak sport, but that isn't saying much with an elite CB, elite S, and top 25 CB already in the mix. Harmon won't have as much responsibility either with Revis and Browner both manned up, and McCourty roaming. Harmon might be asked to cover the TE over the middle, or maybe the flats. Also, with it being a passing league, it's very important to have 3-4 good CBs that can be relied on. Dennard is obviously the #3 guy, Arrington only seems decent in the slot, so Ryan would have to play the #4 spot opposite Arrington. 4 WR sets are pretty common nowadays, and after the last two AFCCG, I think Bill is finally scared of running out of competent CBs.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derekstanggt wrote:
I would not be thrilled to have Ryan move to S. He's a CB first, and I don't think his skills would translate like McCourty's did. Harmon looked decent in the limited time he played last season. Now in his second year, and with another training camp, I think he'll be fine as the starter. He'll definitely be the weak sport, but that isn't saying much with an elite CB, elite S, and top 25 CB already in the mix. Harmon won't have as much responsibility either with Revis and Browner both manned up, and McCourty roaming. Harmon might be asked to cover the TE over the middle, or maybe the flats. Also, with it being a passing league, it's very important to have 3-4 good CBs that can be relied on. Dennard is obviously the #3 guy, Arrington only seems decent in the slot, so Ryan would have to play the #4 spot opposite Arrington. 4 WR sets are pretty common nowadays, and after the last two AFCCG, I think Bill is finally scared of running out of competent CBs.


What skills of Ryan's wouldn't translate to FS?
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derekstanggt


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
derekstanggt wrote:
I would not be thrilled to have Ryan move to S. He's a CB first, and I don't think his skills would translate like McCourty's did. Harmon looked decent in the limited time he played last season. Now in his second year, and with another training camp, I think he'll be fine as the starter. He'll definitely be the weak sport, but that isn't saying much with an elite CB, elite S, and top 25 CB already in the mix. Harmon won't have as much responsibility either with Revis and Browner both manned up, and McCourty roaming. Harmon might be asked to cover the TE over the middle, or maybe the flats. Also, with it being a passing league, it's very important to have 3-4 good CBs that can be relied on. Dennard is obviously the #3 guy, Arrington only seems decent in the slot, so Ryan would have to play the #4 spot opposite Arrington. 4 WR sets are pretty common nowadays, and after the last two AFCCG, I think Bill is finally scared of running out of competent CBs.


What skills of Ryan's wouldn't translate to FS?


Granted I'm not the best when it comes to DB scouting, but it seemed his recognition and anticipation weren't all that great. I thought he played well enough in man, and was athletic enough to stay with WRs, but seemed to be out of place in zone schemes. I also thought he needed work in turning his head and locating the ball in the air. Something I'd like a S to be better at. He's also very fluid in and out of breaks, which is another reason I'd prefer to leave him at CB.

Edit: If Ryan were to move to "FS", would that leave McCourty in more of a "SS" type role? Because I'd rather McCourty stayed in his roaming role he's in now.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Neither safety would be in the box. The Patriots want to play with two cover safeties now. Guregian reported it last week.

You mean conjectured, not reported, as there is no way she has any information on the matter at this point. And even if it was true, that must mean they have a hell of a plan to bolster the front seven if they're going to play without a safety in the box regularly, because right now, their run defense is a disaster waiting to happen without some serious reinforcements up front and no safety that can be a force in run support.


Guregian has good sources, and multiple others jumped off it and confirmed. So I wouldn't call it conjectured. Guregian is one of the few Patriots reporters who I don't think panders for attention, so I'd trust her.

I don't think the Patriots are as concerned with the front seven as some fans seem to be. It sounds like they're fine with Wilfork and Siliga at nose tackle in a rotation and Hightower coming up in support. They may add one other ILB to help, but it seems like they're more concerned with pass defense rather than run defense. They want to add a pass rushing DT, not a run stuffer.

I agree that the current plan is definitely pass heavy, but it does seem like that's how the league is trending, and that may be how the Patriots end up going.

Sources or not, I don't believe she knows anything because I don't believe the Patriots know anything. It's still really, really early. The draft hasn't even happened. Who is available to them there and in the second wave of free agency during the preseason will likely go a long way towards determining how the whole situation plays out.
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

derekstanggt wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
derekstanggt wrote:
I would not be thrilled to have Ryan move to S. He's a CB first, and I don't think his skills would translate like McCourty's did. Harmon looked decent in the limited time he played last season. Now in his second year, and with another training camp, I think he'll be fine as the starter. He'll definitely be the weak sport, but that isn't saying much with an elite CB, elite S, and top 25 CB already in the mix. Harmon won't have as much responsibility either with Revis and Browner both manned up, and McCourty roaming. Harmon might be asked to cover the TE over the middle, or maybe the flats. Also, with it being a passing league, it's very important to have 3-4 good CBs that can be relied on. Dennard is obviously the #3 guy, Arrington only seems decent in the slot, so Ryan would have to play the #4 spot opposite Arrington. 4 WR sets are pretty common nowadays, and after the last two AFCCG, I think Bill is finally scared of running out of competent CBs.


What skills of Ryan's wouldn't translate to FS?


Granted I'm not the best when it comes to DB scouting, but it seemed his recognition and anticipation weren't all that great. I thought he played well enough in man, and was athletic enough to stay with WRs, but seemed to be out of place in zone schemes. I also thought he needed work in turning his head and locating the ball in the air. Something I'd like a S to be better at. He's also very fluid in and out of breaks, which is another reason I'd prefer to leave him at CB.

Edit: If Ryan were to move to "FS", would that leave McCourty in more of a "SS" type role? Because I'd rather McCourty stayed in his roaming role he's in now.


Those traits don't factor into being a Safety, or aren't the all or be all of the Safety position. Aside from McCourty and Harmon, the entire secondary looked lost in zone last season. Most likely because McCourty/Harmon usually had the umbrella/cover highs so their designated assignments weren't as complicated. Ryan's recognition and anticipation is what makes him a damn good player. He has all the traits to play Safety, the one major asset he lacks in size. FWIW, Gregory is only about 5 lbs heavier than Ryan is.
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On Logan Ryan, pre-draft:
patsfan25 wrote:
Logan Ryan will be the steal of the draft.


Aite,

peace.
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Neither safety would be in the box. The Patriots want to play with two cover safeties now. Guregian reported it last week.

You mean conjectured, not reported, as there is no way she has any information on the matter at this point. And even if it was true, that must mean they have a hell of a plan to bolster the front seven if they're going to play without a safety in the box regularly, because right now, their run defense is a disaster waiting to happen without some serious reinforcements up front and no safety that can be a force in run support.


Guregian has good sources, and multiple others jumped off it and confirmed. So I wouldn't call it conjectured. Guregian is one of the few Patriots reporters who I don't think panders for attention, so I'd trust her.

I don't think the Patriots are as concerned with the front seven as some fans seem to be. It sounds like they're fine with Wilfork and Siliga at nose tackle in a rotation and Hightower coming up in support. They may add one other ILB to help, but it seems like they're more concerned with pass defense rather than run defense. They want to add a pass rushing DT, not a run stuffer.

I agree that the current plan is definitely pass heavy, but it does seem like that's how the league is trending, and that may be how the Patriots end up going.

Sources or not, I don't believe she knows anything because I don't believe the Patriots know anything. It's still really, really early. The draft hasn't even happened. Who is available to them there and in the second wave of free agency during the preseason will likely go a long way towards determining how the whole situation plays out.



That must mean the same for your theory on what they're going to employ too then. They've basically been playing with undersized Safeties for the last few years and maybe more. That's not to say they haven't tried to find one. But I think it's a matter of utilizing what they have on the team. You are correct on the last statement however.
_________________
On Logan Ryan, pre-draft:
patsfan25 wrote:
Logan Ryan will be the steal of the draft.


Aite,

peace.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12021
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Neither safety would be in the box. The Patriots want to play with two cover safeties now. Guregian reported it last week.

You mean conjectured, not reported, as there is no way she has any information on the matter at this point. And even if it was true, that must mean they have a hell of a plan to bolster the front seven if they're going to play without a safety in the box regularly, because right now, their run defense is a disaster waiting to happen without some serious reinforcements up front and no safety that can be a force in run support.


Guregian has good sources, and multiple others jumped off it and confirmed. So I wouldn't call it conjectured. Guregian is one of the few Patriots reporters who I don't think panders for attention, so I'd trust her.

I don't think the Patriots are as concerned with the front seven as some fans seem to be. It sounds like they're fine with Wilfork and Siliga at nose tackle in a rotation and Hightower coming up in support. They may add one other ILB to help, but it seems like they're more concerned with pass defense rather than run defense. They want to add a pass rushing DT, not a run stuffer.

I agree that the current plan is definitely pass heavy, but it does seem like that's how the league is trending, and that may be how the Patriots end up going.

Sources or not, I don't believe she knows anything because I don't believe the Patriots know anything. It's still really, really early. The draft hasn't even happened. Who is available to them there and in the second wave of free agency during the preseason will likely go a long way towards determining how the whole situation plays out.



That must mean the same for your theory on what they're going to employ too then. They've basically been playing with undersized Safeties for the last few years and maybe more. That's not to say they haven't tried to find one. But I think it's a matter of utilizing what they have on the team. You are correct on the last statement however.

Of course it does. The difference is, I don't present it as a factual report, I present it as a theory.
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derekstanggt


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
derekstanggt wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
derekstanggt wrote:
I would not be thrilled to have Ryan move to S. He's a CB first, and I don't think his skills would translate like McCourty's did. Harmon looked decent in the limited time he played last season. Now in his second year, and with another training camp, I think he'll be fine as the starter. He'll definitely be the weak sport, but that isn't saying much with an elite CB, elite S, and top 25 CB already in the mix. Harmon won't have as much responsibility either with Revis and Browner both manned up, and McCourty roaming. Harmon might be asked to cover the TE over the middle, or maybe the flats. Also, with it being a passing league, it's very important to have 3-4 good CBs that can be relied on. Dennard is obviously the #3 guy, Arrington only seems decent in the slot, so Ryan would have to play the #4 spot opposite Arrington. 4 WR sets are pretty common nowadays, and after the last two AFCCG, I think Bill is finally scared of running out of competent CBs.


What skills of Ryan's wouldn't translate to FS?


Granted I'm not the best when it comes to DB scouting, but it seemed his recognition and anticipation weren't all that great. I thought he played well enough in man, and was athletic enough to stay with WRs, but seemed to be out of place in zone schemes. I also thought he needed work in turning his head and locating the ball in the air. Something I'd like a S to be better at. He's also very fluid in and out of breaks, which is another reason I'd prefer to leave him at CB.

Edit: If Ryan were to move to "FS", would that leave McCourty in more of a "SS" type role? Because I'd rather McCourty stayed in his roaming role he's in now.


Those traits don't factor into being a Safety, or aren't the all or be all of the Safety position. Aside from McCourty and Harmon, the entire secondary looked lost in zone last season. Most likely because McCourty/Harmon usually had the umbrella/cover highs so their designated assignments weren't as complicated. Ryan's recognition and anticipation is what makes him a damn good player. He has all the traits to play Safety, the one major asset he lacks in size. FWIW, Gregory is only about 5 lbs heavier than Ryan is.


I don't think size is really an issue with Ryan. Byrd is only 5' 10", and he's a great S. The things I mentioned about Ryan, being lost in zone at times, not locating the ball in the air, are awareness issues. I would think that awareness would be one of, if not the most important skill for a safety, strong or free. Ryan is an athletic guy, but I don't know that athleticism can make up that much for lack of awareness. That's not to say he can't improve, but at this point in his career, would he really be an upgrade at safety over Harmon? That, coupled with his value still at CB, makes me not too fond of moving him. I don't quite share your sentiment of him, I really wouldn't call him a "damn good" player. Bill probably wouldn't either, given that he took the steps with the secondary this offseason that he did. I could see Bill drafting a safety in the first 3 rounds, but I wouldn't be terribly worried about rolling with Harmon.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Neither safety would be in the box. The Patriots want to play with two cover safeties now. Guregian reported it last week.

You mean conjectured, not reported, as there is no way she has any information on the matter at this point. And even if it was true, that must mean they have a hell of a plan to bolster the front seven if they're going to play without a safety in the box regularly, because right now, their run defense is a disaster waiting to happen without some serious reinforcements up front and no safety that can be a force in run support.


Guregian has good sources, and multiple others jumped off it and confirmed. So I wouldn't call it conjectured. Guregian is one of the few Patriots reporters who I don't think panders for attention, so I'd trust her.

I don't think the Patriots are as concerned with the front seven as some fans seem to be. It sounds like they're fine with Wilfork and Siliga at nose tackle in a rotation and Hightower coming up in support. They may add one other ILB to help, but it seems like they're more concerned with pass defense rather than run defense. They want to add a pass rushing DT, not a run stuffer.

I agree that the current plan is definitely pass heavy, but it does seem like that's how the league is trending, and that may be how the Patriots end up going.

Sources or not, I don't believe she knows anything because I don't believe the Patriots know anything. It's still really, really early. The draft hasn't even happened. Who is available to them there and in the second wave of free agency during the preseason will likely go a long way towards determining how the whole situation plays out.



That must mean the same for your theory on what they're going to employ too then. They've basically been playing with undersized Safeties for the last few years and maybe more. That's not to say they haven't tried to find one. But I think it's a matter of utilizing what they have on the team. You are correct on the last statement however.

Of course it does. The difference is, I don't present it as a factual report, I present it as a theory.


That's the nature of sports "reporting" these days. Pass off anonymous sourced "information" (i.e. probably either fiction or complete speculation) as an actual scoop and throw together a story which probably takes 10 minutes to type up.

Guregian has been doing it for years, dating back to her time covering the Bruins. Unlike a lot of the other hacks, she always plays it safe and avoids the controversial stuff. Speculating (or fabricating) something like this makes an article that nobody will hold her accountable to if/when it never materializes.

To be honest, I don't think she knows much about the sports she covers in terms of X's and O's or roster management strategy. She's certainly never shown much insight in those areas and really never offers much analysis.
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