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The More Philbin Talks The More I Believe He Should Go
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Gubbi007


Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you have no clue who the "right guys" are. Your just mad that we haven't won in over 20 years. And in total disregard for logic, you act like the people in place now where here for the whole 20 years. How do I know ? You told me yourself when before game one you turned on him. We had no business winning 8 games with the roster we fielded last season, and your biggest gripe is the same demeanor that Tony Dungy has ?

Viruses to all your computers. Your thought process is unbearable.


First of all, I have never claimed to know who right guys are, I have only stated my opinion that Philbin isn't.

Second of all, I have never said that I turned on Philbin before game one. I said that I have never been enamored with him, there is a big difference.

I will tell you exactly when I turned on Philbin. After he failed to motivate the team for the final two games that had us in prime position to qualify for the playoffs is when I turned on Philbin. Those two last games were absolutely pitiful from a team perspective and for me, that is unacceptable. If I were the owner I would have seriously considered firing the head coach immediately after the final game.

Lastly, do you really think that Philbin has the same demeanor that Dungy has? Because I see no comparison between the two...

Instead of telling me (and others in this thread) what my motivation is for not supporting Philbin, why don't you give us the reasons that you do? And please don't tell me that consistency is the cure-all for succes in the NFL, because by analogy that would make Jeff Fischer and the Titans of a few years ago the most successful franchise in the NFL (I believe Fischer was the longest tenured coach when he was with the Titans).

Quote:
There are only a few things that are gonna happen here.

1. Philbin wins enough games to temporarily satiate you. And you (because you have zero accountability) will say he won you over. Not that you where wrong.

2. He will win a Super Bowl and you will give all the credit to Hickey and Lazor.

3. He will lose and you will be even that much more annoying

4. The next guy will come in and you will either give him the reasonable time it takes if he's a celebrity or

5. Give him the Philbin treatment if he's an unknown.


As for this, If Philbin gets us to the playoffs this season I will gladly swallow my Words.

As for "reasonable time", how long is that in you view? I will personally give a coach all the time in the World as long as the team is going in the right direction. If not, ownership has to act.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5584
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gubbi007 wrote:
Quote:
you have no clue who the "right guys" are. Your just mad that we haven't won in over 20 years. And in total disregard for logic, you act like the people in place now where here for the whole 20 years. How do I know ? You told me yourself when before game one you turned on him. We had no business winning 8 games with the roster we fielded last season, and your biggest gripe is the same demeanor that Tony Dungy has ?

Viruses to all your computers. Your thought process is unbearable.


First of all, I have never claimed to know who right guys are, I have only stated my opinion that Philbin isn't.

Second of all, I have never said that I turned on Philbin before game one. I said that I have never been enamored with him, there is a big difference.

I will tell you exactly when I turned on Philbin. After he failed to motivate the team for the final two games that had us in prime position to qualify for the playoffs is when I turned on Philbin. Those two last games were absolutely pitiful from a team perspective and for me, that is unacceptable. If I were the owner I would have seriously considered firing the head coach immediately after the final game.

Lastly, do you really think that Philbin has the same demeanor that Dungy has? Because I see no comparison between the two...

Instead of telling me (and others in this thread) what my motivation is for not supporting Philbin, why don't you give us the reasons that you do? And please don't tell me that consistency is the cure-all for succes in the NFL, because by analogy that would make Jeff Fischer and the Titans of a few years ago the most successful franchise in the NFL (I believe Fischer was the longest tenured coach when he was with the Titans).

Quote:
There are only a few things that are gonna happen here.

1. Philbin wins enough games to temporarily satiate you. And you (because you have zero accountability) will say he won you over. Not that you where wrong.

2. He will win a Super Bowl and you will give all the credit to Hickey and Lazor.

3. He will lose and you will be even that much more annoying

4. The next guy will come in and you will either give him the reasonable time it takes if he's a celebrity or

5. Give him the Philbin treatment if he's an unknown.


As for this, If Philbin gets us to the playoffs this season I will gladly swallow my Words.

As for "reasonable time", how long is that in you view? I will personally give a coach all the time in the World as long as the team is going in the right direction. If not, ownership has to act.



This is going to be a breeze.

First and foremost, I have no idea who YOU are (haven't visited much lately) and what your opinions are on this matter.

For the record, I'm 75/25 in favor of Philbin for the reasons listed below.

1. Team Character: He inherited a GM that was challenged in this area. Had to deal with the Ocho Cinco dynamic (which I swear sometimes was there only to drum up views on Hard Knocks.) But he quickly rid himself of that and started to acquire business like professionals. For as much as they struggled, if you watch an interview with Ellerbe or Wheeler, you will see the same adult professional demeanor you will see in keepers like Cam Wake and Brent Grimes. Watching the Branden Albert and Earl Mitchell interviews I see more of the same. This team is developing a team personality that I like. Gone are the Karlos Dansby types who show discontent in ways that are not productive.

2. Innovative: I've mentioned this before, but I think it was a private conversation or in a discussion not on this site. His first year here, he split the practice field in two and maximized the team practice by holding walk throughs and drills on both sides for efficiency. That's never been done here before. Even if it wasn't his original idea, it showed me that he was trying to get the most out of this roster.

3. QB Development: Ryan Tannehill used to get the ball batted down and fumble what seemed like 1 out of every 5 times he was sacked. Those issues went away. There are signs of this kind of individual improvement in a few areas on the roster.

4. And most importantly of all .... Since he's been here, our win total has exceeded the talent we put on the field. I've always said. NO team in the NFL can play efficiently when their offensive line is in disarray. We have fielded five win teams in his first two years just for that reason, but he has managed to win 7 and 8 games respectively, without regression. He has coached around the deficiencies and gotten this team to win games it had no business winning. (Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, NE and San Diego being prime examples) that's a sign of leadership.
He get's criticism for letting a guy like Incognito be the team leadership council, but that is a private dynamic of which the details are not made available. That could have been a decision left to the team. And who was the more senior player on that offense anyway ?
There's no better evidence of leadership for an HC in the NFL than the ability to form an environment where you can win more games than the talent you have says you can. 8 wins while you break the record in sacks allowed is NOT supposed to happen. 7-9 and 8-8 in your first ever seasons as a head coach is not a fireable offense.

Yeah it sucks being a 20+ year fan of a team that hasn't won in your life time, but he's only accountable for two. Don't let your two decades of pain blind you to the potential that's clearly there to end it.
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Gubbi007


Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who I am is completely irrelevant. As to my opinion on the matter, read my post in this thread. If you still find it unclear what my opinion is, then ask me to clarify.

I don’t get the impression though that you are interested in my opinion (perhaps implied by your mentioning that you don’t know me?)

I really should let this go…the discussion is rather pointless, considering that Philbin definitely will be the head coach for at least another year…..then again, nothing written in this forum has any effect in the real world, so why not. Besides, I find it fascinating that you’ve actually convinced yourself that your reasoning is sound.

Here are my thoughts on your four points:
1. Team Character: As I recall, Philbin rid himself of Ocho Cinco only after the latter decided to headbutt his wife and was arrested. There is not a single head coach in the NFL who would have kept Ocho on after such an incident, and I fail to see why one should give Philbin credit for acting in the same manner as any head coach with an ounce of reason and/or integrity. As for the high character players you mention, they were brought in by the GM and cannot be credited to Philbin. The team personality that I see Philbin creating is one of excessive disciplinary action such as benching Reggie Bush for fumbling the football, and creating an atmosphere of no tolerance and perhaps even fear. An atmosphere characterized more by bullying than being supportive. Ultimately, the atmosphere or culture that Philbin is responsible for implementing, resulted in a colossal bullying scandal that has seriously hurt this franchise. Blame Jonathan Martin for being soft if you will, but Philbin is responsible for the culture that allowed this to occur, and more importantly to let the situation get way, way out of hand. That in my mind is a monumental failure in leadership.

2. Innovative: I really can’t say whether he is innovative or not, but I would never reward innovation without it getting results, and I don’t see an 8-8 season with a collective collapse to close out the season as a shining beacon of success….so you’re basically giving him points for trying, how ambitious of you.

3. QB development: he fixed the batted passes…fantastic. In the meantime, Tannehill’s deep ball is absolutely terrible and his pocket presence regressed from his rookie season in my mind. Sure, the atrocious offensive line probably carries a lot of the blame for the latter, but it would require a stretch of the imagination to call Tannehill’s second season a big step forward in his development.

4. Talent: evaluating the talent level is very subjective. I’m not going to say the Dolphins have a level of talent that demands a trip to the playoffs, but you’re basically saying: it’s all Ireland’s fault for putting together such an untalented roster and that’s a very weak foundation for any conclusion. Yes, the O-line was really bad, but Tannehill accounted for a lot of those sacks with poor pocket awareness and an inability to read the defence. What I saw during last season was a team that had no identity and played with no fire. And the last two games are the worst indictment of Philbin: if you are not able to motivate your team under the circumstances we were in, being so close to qualifying for the playoffs, something is seriously wrong.

You may be right on the money: being a 20+ year fan of a team that hasn't won in your life time, really does blind you…
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Manic


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 1556
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

docs comments werent even directed at you initially so not sure why u wanna keep arguing

Quote:
Team Character: As I recall, Philbin rid himself of Ocho Cinco only after the latter decided to headbutt his wife and was arrested. There is not a single head coach in the NFL who would have kept Ocho on after such an incident


I do take issue with your 1st point. Ray Rice knocked a woman out and he's still the starting RB for the ravens. The reason being is b/c they believe he still has talent, theres plenty of other incidents like this where nothing happens. Ocho was on the downside of his career, and he stunk it up in the preseason. Head buting his wife just made it easier to send him packing.

Phil has weeded out alot of the low character guys. There were even reports he wanted Richie gone before the season, but ireland refused to part ways. So I'd side with doc on his 1st point
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Gubbi007


Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good example of the opposite outcome Manic, but I believe my argument is still perfectly valid. I'm not saying that all players with similar behavior would be cut. I'm saying that all coaches in the NFL would have cut Ocho Cinco under those circumstances. My point being that Philbin should not receive praise for something anyone else would also have done.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5584
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manic wrote:
docs comments werent even directed at you initially so not sure why u wanna keep arguing

Quote:
Team Character: As I recall, Philbin rid himself of Ocho Cinco only after the latter decided to headbutt his wife and was arrested. There is not a single head coach in the NFL who would have kept Ocho on after such an incident


I do take issue with your 1st point. Ray Rice knocked a woman out and he's still the starting RB for the ravens. The reason being is b/c they believe he still has talent, theres plenty of other incidents like this where nothing happens. Ocho was on the downside of his career, and he stunk it up in the preseason. Head buting his wife just made it easier to send him packing.

Phil has weeded out alot of the low character guys. There were even reports he wanted Richie gone before the season, but ireland refused to part ways. So I'd side with doc on his 1st point


Manic ... wasn't the head butting incident after he was cut ? I'm almost certain of it.
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 6659
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Manic wrote:
docs comments werent even directed at you initially so not sure why u wanna keep arguing

Quote:
Team Character: As I recall, Philbin rid himself of Ocho Cinco only after the latter decided to headbutt his wife and was arrested. There is not a single head coach in the NFL who would have kept Ocho on after such an incident


I do take issue with your 1st point. Ray Rice knocked a woman out and he's still the starting RB for the ravens. The reason being is b/c they believe he still has talent, theres plenty of other incidents like this where nothing happens. Ocho was on the downside of his career, and he stunk it up in the preseason. Head buting his wife just made it easier to send him packing.

Phil has weeded out alot of the low character guys. There were even reports he wanted Richie gone before the season, but ireland refused to part ways. So I'd side with doc on his 1st point


Manic ... wasn't the head butting incident after he was cut ? I'm almost certain of it.


Nah it was the final straw that lead to the cut.
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Maddogg wrote:
Also, Joe Philbin denies knowing who won the presidential election in 2012 because as quoted "I don't go anywhere where people talk about anything."
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Gubbi007


Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
docs comments werent even directed at you initially so not sure why u wanna keep arguing


I missed this one earlier. I keep arguing because I disagree with Docs point of view, is that not reason enough?

Also, I have to admit, I find Docs condescension a Little annoying. It's quite entertaining when reading from the sideline, but the humor is lost on you when you're on the other end of it.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5584
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gubbi007 wrote:
Quote:
docs comments werent even directed at you initially so not sure why u wanna keep arguing


I missed this one earlier. I keep arguing because I disagree with Docs point of view, is that not reason enough?

Also, I have to admit, I find Docs condescension a Little annoying. It's quite entertaining when reading from the sideline, but the humor is lost on you when you're on the other end of it.


If I say the same thing all the time and you only have a problem with it on specific occasions, the problem can be found in your selfie, mirror or quiet moments alone.
But seriously, this group has taken the three possible sides on this franchise. There's pro management, anti-management and the few of us that take each Miami Dolphin scenario as it comes. None of these positions is without flaw. NONE OF THEM. And we all get annoyed by the presentation of each others views.
My philosophy is this. Why not view this team on a scenario by scenario basis. A lot of us do it. But when we interact, the scenario by scenario people are perceived as unrealistically positive. I don't like everything the dolphins do. The signing of Finnegan and Delmas are prime examples. My assessments may be way off. I have had to adjust my mocks several times just for the sake of logic and learning new things every day. I was wrong about Ireland and that was made obvious when he became Armando's leak the instant he parted ways with the team.
At the end of the day, as I get older, I'm less and less concerned with how I come off to other posters. I've had solid friendships develop when I was agreeable and had those same friendships dissolve when I wasn't. So I no longer give a crap. Some of you guys have the emotional fortitude of junior high cheerleaders. That is far from my problem.
I think the anti-management folks start from a place of passion in their thought process. They (like everyone else) hate recent Dolphin history. We hate not being playoff relevant for so many years. It seems like they view every move the dolphins make through their pain glasses. Those are the glasses a fan puts on when the anger and disappointment take over the desire to root.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6811
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely support Philbin as our HC.
He may not have handled the OLine bullying in the locker room very well but he went on like a
2 - 3 win game streak with a bunch of 3rd string Olinemen.

* Unlike our last 3 - 4 H. Coaches we landed a 1st rnd QB with talent.
* He ain't afraid to address a modern day passing attack.
* He is philosophically the "Anti Sporano"
* He himself admitted "it's very hard to win in the NFL only scoring 17 pts/gm".
* Won 7 gms his 1st yr & 8 his 2nd yr.

In my opinion he deserves a chance to show he can break 500.

sug
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jeremyjh


Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: The More Philbin Talks The More I Believe He Should Go Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
His backyard dog and pony show has worn thin on myself. The words that come from his mouth seem more corporate non speak than anything. Myself, I'm done with him and so should the Dolphins be also.

Not to be mean, but I'll chip in a few bucks so he could buy a clue.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24499993/joe-philbin-i-believe-strongly-in-dolphins-locker-room


And [inappropriate/removed] up allour new Talent he came here with

(Grimes, Tanny, Clay (The beast TE version), Jordan , & etc?

NO THANK YOU!
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