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buddy_z34


Joined: 21 Dec 2007
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
BTB posted this potential offseason on their twitter:

FA Henry Melton
1) Zach Martin
2) Scott Crichton

I would sign up for that right now.


Where would the team get the money for Melton?? Ware paycut??
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CT Cowboy Fan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question for the Cap guys here. If the Cowboys somehow got Ware to take a pay cut and agree to an incentive based deal, how do the incentives count against the cap? Say he has it written in that "if you reach 12 sacks you recieve $1.5 million". Does that $1.5 count against this years cap, next years cap, or does it not count towards it at all?
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have a guy ate the Ohio State pro day and he is telling me Ryan Shazier just pulled up on his 40 yard dash and ended up running a 5.10 40. Probably sitting out for the rest the day. He also said it looked like more than a pull.
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buddy_z34


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How does the NFL Salary Cap treat cash incentives?

Answer: All incentives are included in team salary if they are "likely to be earned" (LTBE). LTBE incentives are performance levels that the player or team has reached in the previous year.


For example, if a quarterback threw twenty touchdowns last year and his incentive clause for this year is set at fifteen touchdowns, then this incentive is “likely to be earned.” Also, incentives that are in the sole control of the player, like non-guaranteed reporting bonuses and off-season workout and weight bonuses, are considered LTBE.


An impartial arbitrator will hear disputes between the owners and the players concerning what should be considered LTBE (especially for rookies or veterans who did not play in the prior year). Conversely, if a player did not reach the performance incentive in the previous year, the incentive is deemed "not likely to be earned" (NLTBE) and is not included in team salary.


To determine whether a clause is LTBE or NLTBE for Salary Cap purposes (i.e., not whether the player actually earned the incentive), it is necessary to look at the performance of the team in the prior season, not the current season.


For example, assume Player X receives an incentive bonus if he participates in 50% of the team’s offensive plays this season. Assume further that last season the team had 1,000 offensive plays. Therefore, as soon as Player X plays in 500 plays in the current season (or 50% of last year’s 1,000 plays), the incentive will be considered earned for Salary Cap purposes.


The same incentive is considered "not earned" if the same player in the current year only participated in one of the team’s first 502 offensive plays. In this situation, it would be impossible for the player to achieve the 50% incentive based on last year’s performance of 1,000 plays. It is important to remember that looking to last year’s performance level is only for Salary Cap purposes and will not affect the player's right to receive a bonus for his performance in the current year.


Quote:
So cash incentives work almost like signing bonuses, right?

Answer: The short answer to this question is that incentives are considered signing bonuses; however, for cap purposes they are not handled exactly the same way as "signing" bonuses.


While we're on the topic, let's talk a bit more about signing bonuses.


Also included in the “bonus” are guaranteed reporting bonuses and guaranteed workout bonuses. Roster or reporting bonuses earned or paid before preseason training camp are also considered bonuses. Guaranteed salary advances or advances that do not have to be repaid are treated as signing bonuses. Money guaranteed or paid for option years, contract extensions, contract modifications, individually negotiated rights of first refusal, and option buyouts are considered signing bonuses. Reporting bonuses are treated as signing bonuses if the contract is signed after the start of training camp. Roster bonuses are also considered signing bonuses if the contract was signed after the last preseason game. Finally, individually negotiated relocation bonuses are treated as a signing bonus.


The non-guaranteed amount of any salary advance, off-season workout bonus, off-season roster bonus, or off-season reporting bonus is included in the team’s salary in the year it was earned. These bonuses cannot be prorated. “Guaranteed” refers to those bonuses that are fully guaranteed–regardless of skill, injury or termination of the contract.


Contracts signed, renegotiated, or extended in the final capped year are governed by a somewhat special set of rules if the signing bonus is to be paid to the player in the final capped season. In this situation, a salary advance that the player is not obligated to repay is considered a signing bonus. Any off-season workout bonus that calls for a player to participate in less than thirty-two days of the team’s program is also considered a signing bonus. Finally, all off-season reporting and roster bonuses are considered signing bonuses.


I guess they work like a signing bonus. If the Boys put Ware on an incentive based contract. Considering he only got 6 sacks last year. It could be something like if he gets double digit sacks he gets a 5 million dollar bonus. So I'm assuming it wouldn't count against the cap which would be awesome.
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JShank


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manziel'so best attribute, IMO, is his ability to throw the ball accurately from any position/off balance... I see similarities with Russell Wilson in that regard. Many people probably don't view that as a very great attribute, especially for a traditional pocket QB, but when you have a player with special talents you should use them... Bootlegs, rolling out...

However, I see him as a sit first year type. Therefore, I wouldn't want him even at 16 (I feel this is our last year to make it far in the playoffs or else we blow this team up.)
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WareWolf94


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.
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AyyyeeeJ


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WareWolf94 wrote:
For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.


Agreed. Let's just say we did draft Manziel at 16. The first interception Romo throws of the season will begin the crapstorm of fans pushing for Manziel to start. Not the kind of atmosphere you really want for a team that just gave a huge contract to Romo and already has too many cooks in the kitchen on offense.
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RHS Ocho Cinco


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AyyyeeeJ wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.


Agreed. Let's just say we did draft Manziel at 16. The first interception Romo throws of the season will begin the crapstorm of fans pushing for Manziel to start. Not the kind of atmosphere you really want for a team that just gave a huge contract to Romo and already has too many cooks in the kitchen on offense.


I LOVE Manziel. And would freak out (in a happy way) if we drafted him. But, I definitely would have that concern about the Tebow-esque controversy having Manziel on the bench would stir up behind Romo.
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buddy_z34


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RHS Ocho Cinco wrote:
AyyyeeeJ wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.


Agreed. Let's just say we did draft Manziel at 16. The first interception Romo throws of the season will begin the crapstorm of fans pushing for Manziel to start. Not the kind of atmosphere you really want for a team that just gave a huge contract to Romo and already has too many cooks in the kitchen on offense.


I LOVE Manziel. And would freak out (in a happy way) if we drafted him. But, I definitely would have that concern about the Tebow-esque controversy having Manziel on the bench would stir up behind Romo.


No exactly. Tebow in Denver was playing behind Kyle Orton iirc. Romo is a top 10 QB in the league.

Since last year I've been telling my friends and family that Manziel was a mix of Romo's play making ability and Stafford's ability to throw at different angles and accurately. But seeing Wilson play last year I would say that's a better comparison even though people will say it's a lazy comparison.
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RHS Ocho Cinco


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buddy_z34 wrote:
RHS Ocho Cinco wrote:
AyyyeeeJ wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.


Agreed. Let's just say we did draft Manziel at 16. The first interception Romo throws of the season will begin the crapstorm of fans pushing for Manziel to start. Not the kind of atmosphere you really want for a team that just gave a huge contract to Romo and already has too many cooks in the kitchen on offense.


I LOVE Manziel. And would freak out (in a happy way) if we drafted him. But, I definitely would have that concern about the Tebow-esque controversy having Manziel on the bench would stir up behind Romo.


No exactly. Tebow in Denver was playing behind Kyle Orton iirc. Romo is a top 10 QB in the league.

Since last year I've been telling my friends and family that Manziel was a mix of Romo's play making ability and Stafford's ability to throw at different angles and accurately. But seeing Wilson play last year I would say that's a better comparison even though people will say it's a lazy comparison.


I'm not at all comparing the playing-styles of Manziel and Tebow (AT ALL). But, I am comparing the media fire-storm each of them can passively brew. And I agree that it was easier for people to support Tebow since he was behind Kyle Orton, but the media loves to shred Romo already, with someone like Manziel behind him, it'll only be easier. Regardless, I would like to see us get him, but I'm fully aware, that it might not be the easiest of transitions.
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buddy_z34


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the media, in some regards, has eased up on Romo a bit. His toughness with playing with injuries and playing big in games (Broncos, Washington when it was an elimination game). The only firestorm would come from fans who don't like the guy even though the team would be garbage without him and some media who still have their Cowboy hater glasses on.

Plus Manziel is a 3rd round prospect, fringe 2nd round. But seeing as QB is a highly coveted position and his market appeal will cause him to go higher.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buddy_z34 wrote:
I think the media, in some regards, has eased up on Romo a bit. His toughness with playing with injuries and playing big in games (Broncos, Washington when it was an elimination game). The only firestorm would come from fans who don't like the guy even though the team would be garbage without him and some media who still have their Cowboy hater glasses on.

Plus Manziel is a 3rd round prospect, fringe 2nd round. But seeing as QB is a highly coveted position and his market appeal will cause him to go higher.


Ultimately, overdrafting lower talent players is what helps doom a team. Because passing up on a superior prospect on the hope that another will develop into something special is never a smart strategy. It keeps bad teams bad, and makes above average-to-good teams mediocre or worse because it pulls the overall roster talent down relative to the other teams in the league. They improve at the expense of the team which passed on the better player. So let some other team fall on the Manziel sword in the 1st (or 2nd, or 3rd). Give me a true blue chip player instead. He'll pay far greater dividends in the long and short run.
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buddy_z34


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
buddy_z34 wrote:
I think the media, in some regards, has eased up on Romo a bit. His toughness with playing with injuries and playing big in games (Broncos, Washington when it was an elimination game). The only firestorm would come from fans who don't like the guy even though the team would be garbage without him and some media who still have their Cowboy hater glasses on.

Plus Manziel is a 3rd round prospect, fringe 2nd round. But seeing as QB is a highly coveted position and his market appeal will cause him to go higher.


Ultimately, overdrafting lower talent players is what helps doom a team. Because passing up on a superior prospect on the hope that another will develop into something special is never a smart strategy. It keeps bad teams bad, and makes above average-to-good teams mediocre or worse because it pulls the overall roster talent down relative to the other teams in the league. They improve at the expense of the team which passed on the better player. So let some other team fall on the Manziel sword in the 1st (or 2nd, or 3rd). Give me a true blue chip player instead. He'll pay far greater dividends in the long and short run.


I agree. The Boys aren't interested in JF not because the kid can't play but because they don't need him and it would be a waste of a pick.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buddy_z34 wrote:
RHS Ocho Cinco wrote:
AyyyeeeJ wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.


Agreed. Let's just say we did draft Manziel at 16. The first interception Romo throws of the season will begin the crapstorm of fans pushing for Manziel to start. Not the kind of atmosphere you really want for a team that just gave a huge contract to Romo and already has too many cooks in the kitchen on offense.


I LOVE Manziel. And would freak out (in a happy way) if we drafted him. But, I definitely would have that concern about the Tebow-esque controversy having Manziel on the bench would stir up behind Romo.


No exactly. Tebow in Denver was playing behind Kyle Orton iirc. Romo is a top 10 QB in the league.

Since last year I've been telling my friends and family that Manziel was a mix of Romo's play making ability and Stafford's ability to throw at different angles and accurately. But seeing Wilson play last year I would say that's a better comparison even though people will say it's a lazy comparison.


You are kidding yourself if you don't think a Tebow-level circus would follow Manziel to Dallas.
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buddy_z34


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
buddy_z34 wrote:
RHS Ocho Cinco wrote:
AyyyeeeJ wrote:
WareWolf94 wrote:
For the record if Manziel fell to 16, I would take a long hard look, then sell to the highest bidder.


Agreed. Let's just say we did draft Manziel at 16. The first interception Romo throws of the season will begin the crapstorm of fans pushing for Manziel to start. Not the kind of atmosphere you really want for a team that just gave a huge contract to Romo and already has too many cooks in the kitchen on offense.


I LOVE Manziel. And would freak out (in a happy way) if we drafted him. But, I definitely would have that concern about the Tebow-esque controversy having Manziel on the bench would stir up behind Romo.


No exactly. Tebow in Denver was playing behind Kyle Orton iirc. Romo is a top 10 QB in the league.

Since last year I've been telling my friends and family that Manziel was a mix of Romo's play making ability and Stafford's ability to throw at different angles and accurately. But seeing Wilson play last year I would say that's a better comparison even though people will say it's a lazy comparison.


You are kidding yourself if you don't think a Tebow-level circus would follow Manziel to Dallas.


As I've said maybe only by fans and media who still think Romo is the problem. Not by any sound football people who know that Romo is far from the problem with this team.
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