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Panthers' Luke Kuechly is Defensive Player of the Year
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 200
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

faccda01 wrote:
SAK11 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
SAK11 wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
Assisted tackles are always assumed to mean a player "jumped on a pile." Its never assumed to mean that two players got to the ball carrier simultaneously or that the player got there first and was assisted himself. That's the bottom line. A fan has no idea, so its easier to just dismiss it as "jumping on another pile."

Yep. Everyone's quick to discredit Luke's stats because of the other talent on the defense, but never consider that part of the reason for some of the assisted tackles is that he and Thomas Davis are simultaneously jacking someone up in the backfield Wink

Like someone else said, his individual tackle assist numbers aren't the main reason people think he shouldn't have won. I'm also not sure many people think tackle assist means jumping onto a pile, but rather question them because they aren't the most reliable stat, they aren't like picks or forced fumbles, they're charted inconsistently at best. His 2:1 home to road assist ratio is evidence of that.
Regardless, the opinion that other players were better is why people questioning him winning, and that's based on watching all these top guys play, not just stats. Just at his position alone I fail to understand how he was seen as better than Bowman, which I'd like to have any of you Panther fans answer.

So you're not sure many other people assume tackle assists are "pile jumping?" Weren't you the one who said, in reference to LK winning, "I guess Bowman needs to jump on a few more piles to rack up those tackle assists?" Why would you think you are unique in thinking that way? I can tell you, in my experience, your opinion is shared by the majority of fans that I see discussing the stat.

Now I am not arguing that the stat means anything. Stats are stats. They can be used, misused, ignored, touted, twisted and mishandled in any way a person wants in order to support the opinion they already made. I am just saying the clear tendency with assists is to assume they were earned by "pile jumping" rather than someone else jumping on the tacklers pile or by two players simultaneously getting to the ball carrier. I am saying there is no reason to assume any of it. Yet its clear most people assume something on the matter. And its usually less than flattering.

As far as Bowman, outside stats, I couldn't say. But I am on record saying numerous times that I prefer the award being about stats. It makes things simple. Give it to the guy with the best numbers. Too easy. For me, David was a shoe in. But the voters are clearly interested in other aspects of the argument as well. Aspects that are far more subjective. Because David dint even garner a single vote. Now if you want me to try and give you an argument based on all that subjective criteria I assume went into the votes for LK I suppose I could try when I get home. It wouldn't be my own opinion, mind you. But I could try and construct an argument that the voters could have been considering when they voted. Though I am sure it would be a waste of time since you aren't looking to be convinced, you just seem to want to see what you consider a valid argument on Luke's behalf. And my guess is you're already convinced there is no valid argument that could be made on Luke's behalf. So no argument I put forward would likely be valid to you.

The Bowman jumping on pile comment was more of a joke, referencing his low assist total to Kuechly's very high total, and connecting that to Kuechly winning the award and Bowman not even getting a vote. I suppose I can't speak for others, but I get how assists work, and even though they aren't pile jumps, they're still questionable at times.

I doubt having the award being based solely on stats would work, not sure how one could compare guys like Sherman to Quinn to David, all do very different things and their numbers show that.

I'm not a Kuchely hater, like I've mentioned I'm a fan of the kid, just didn't see him as the top defensive player, and no need to construct the formula on why voter's picked him, it's fairly obvious.
First he's a great player, that limits the amount of potential winners significantly right away.
Next his stats look good on paper, and voters love stats.
Then you have him as the face of that defense with great name recognition, something that hurt Bowman and to an extent Sherman and Thomas since they cancelled each other out.
Next comes being on a top defense, and a playoff caliber team, another thing voters love. That killed Watt, Quinn and David.
You were left with Mathis and Kuechly, and Kuechly edged him out.
I suppose you, a Panther's fan, saying you wouldn't have voted for him tells me all I need to know.

That sums it up pretty nicely, but I'm confused as to why you don't think he deserved it with the logic you just put forth. Face of one of the best defenses in the NFL with great stats who is a great player.

Thank you, and I don't think he deserved it because I had Quinn, Sherman, Thomas, Mathis, Bowman, Watt and David ahead of him. I'm over it, Bowman receiving no votes sort of takes away any credibility the award had for me, probably just start my own awards- the Sako's Laughing
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