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So where do we go from now......
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking about Lattimore, I'm in the camp of folks here who think we've seen all LMJ has to offer to our offense. Do you think there's any chance Phillie would like him well enough to pay a bit of a premium for him - maybe a 5th instead of a 6th or 7th? Seems like he would be a natural fit for their style of play.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
My thing with Crabs and Boldin really is that they are more complimentary WRs. The NFL is a game of space and good defenses exploit the Niners inability to create space quickly on the outside. Crabtree and Boldin are possession receivers who take time to get open, usually on double moves or stutters. They need a Julio Jones/Deymarius Thomas type who can push a secondary back on its heels and go, while going to get the ball at its highest point. That's the only way you can't combat a secondary like Seattle's, with a young QBs who isn't quite as polished as a pocket passer yet. The only guy we have currently who does that is VD. But he's the ONLY one, which is why he receives so much focus and attention from opposing defenses. No defense is worried about either Crabs or Boldin running a 9 route and making them pay so all the focus is towards the middle of the field...where both Boldin and Crabs do their best work. For the passing game to pick up the slack on offesne while CK still matures from the pocket, that has to change.


I agree with this assessment ... but, we got rid of Ginn, Jenkins and KW. Certainly no Julio Jones there, but the first two were lightning fast, and KW was still much fast than Crabs or Boldin. Ginn of course caught 36 passes and averaged over 15 yards a catch this year, and Jenkins only played late in the year but still averaged 17 yards per catch. We just never threw to any of those guys; other teams are getting more out of them. Heck, I used to say when Ginn was here that we ought to throw a deep route to him once or twice a game even if we never completed a single one of them, just to open things up. But that never seemed to be part of our game plan.

So I wonder how much we'd get out of a deep threat. Sure Julio or CJ would be awesome but they're the best of the best. What if we're not lucky enough to get a guy quite that good? I'd love to see us get one and find out.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just having a deep threat on the field will benefit the offense immensely even if we don't give that particular player many touches. We went from having tons of speed last year, to having one of the slowest receiving core in the league.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Just having a deep threat on the field will benefit the offense immensely even if we don't give that particular player many touches. We went from having tons of speed last year, to having one of the slowest receiving core in the league.


That's kind of what I was thinking when I wanted us to send Ginn deep more often. But I don't know if it worked out that way this year. Without Ginn and Moss, Boldin had as many catches this year as Crabtree had last year and for more yards, Vernon had more catches and way more yards, In only 5 games Crabtree had two third of the catches and yards as Moss did playing all last year. Where we had a big dropoff was in passes to Gore and to our second TE. It could well be that we weren't going to those guys because nobody was taking defenders deep, but I just never saw us targeting Gore or McDonald very much.

In any case I really want the holy grail receiver - I want a guy that is fast enough to get open deep, and big enough so he can't be jammed by teams that have figured out how to play us effectively.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years.


Well it's not particularly comforting to think that some of our best players were brought here by previous regimes, but most of Seattle's good players were brought in by the folks that are still running the show there.


Enough with the Debbie Downer routine, I mean seriously...

The point is that all those guys can't and won't be retained.

And Baalke was head of player personnel when both Nolan and Scotty Mac were acting GMs. So I'm sure he had a hand in those picks as well. But Im pretty sure you'll find some 'glass half-empty' wisdom to spew about how that's irrelevant


Just keepin it real here. In all likelihood we'll see a pretty big turnover in our personnel over the next couple of years. So the best chance for us to win it all is likely in the next year or two. In the modern NFL predicting any farther out than that is just too hard to do, and there are 31 other teams all planning to be good 3 or more years into the future. There's sure no guarantee we'll turnover our personnel any more successfully than they all will.

Not meaning to be a downer here, just agreeing with the others who've expressed their sentiment that our window is short, and we can't predict anything beyond that short window. I'm WAY optimistic though about our chances over the next year or two.


I don't see it that way. The biggest thing that hinders franchises in the NFL is the front office, coaching, and lack of talent at the QB position. If you have all 3 of those working for you, you can have a sustained run at success. You might have a couple of lean years here and there but you'll always be in the hunt. We are currently one of those teams who has all 3 in place. So I feel its a cop out to say our window is only open for so long. For every older star who ppl say only has a few years left so therefore our window is shorter, we have up and coming players. Guys where you can see the talent and know over time they could be the next Bowman or VD once they gain a some experience. They way we cultivate talent and groom players is evident. That's why we can no longer pass guys through waivers and teams constantly go after our PS guys. They see what we've done with guys like Boone, Brock, and Ian Williams. They see how we have essentially a NFL Farm system. Morris could be Brock in two or three years. A undrafted, speedy CB who was raw and had to work himself into a NFL player. Made his mark on STs his first few seasons as he developed, then was given an oopportunity and seized it. Marquadt could be the next Boone. Or maybe Netter? Purcell could be the next Ian Williams.

That's why I'm not with this whole 'window closing' rationale because we continue to mine the field and find talent from all over the place. We take UDFAs like Wilhoite and TJE and turn them into quality depth in the blink of a eye. And when they have to fill in for a Willis or a Ray Mac, they step up and the defense doesnt miss a beat. We sign a guy like Skuta to meager deal in free agency and he comes in plays his [inappropriate/removed] off and is making plays. So when our franchise pass-rusher is gone for 5 weeks, the defense is still performing at an elite level. The FAs we do go after, we usually hit on(Rogers, Whitner, Dorsey, Goodwin). And when we elect to let guys walk who have been productive(Aubrayo Franklin, Baas, Goldson, Sopoaga, Spikes) its because we know we can replenish those areas with either talented youth(RJF, Reid, Ian Williams, Bowman) or under the radar FAs(Goodwin, Dorsey, Grant). So to me, losing guys like Cowboy, Crabtree, and Gore will defintely suck. But Baalke has proven an ability to replenish the cupboard when the time comes, so if Tank, Patton, and Latt are the next in line, Im confortable with that becuase it must mean they're ready to step up and show out.

Maybe that's just how I look at things but this FO and staff have given me NO reason to think the trend won't continue. I don't think its luck or coincidence...I guess some do however. But to me, this is an exciting time to he a Niner fans because we seem to have found a formula on how to find talent. It seems like every off-season were acquiring personnel that are showing huge returns when the season rolls around. I'm excited every off-season to see what moves, both major and minor, will pay HUGE dividends during the season. It'd be different if teams were raiding our personnel staff and FO. That might give me pause for concern. But Baalke, JH, Marthe, and Jed are all still here, running the show. And that gives me a reason to be so optimistic.
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years.


Well it's not particularly comforting to think that some of our best players were brought here by previous regimes, but most of Seattle's good players were brought in by the folks that are still running the show there.


Enough with the Debbie Downer routine, I mean seriously...

The point is that all those guys can't and won't be retained.

And Baalke was head of player personnel when both Nolan and Scotty Mac were acting GMs. So I'm sure he had a hand in those picks as well. But Im pretty sure you'll find some 'glass half-empty' wisdom to spew about how that's irrelevant


Just keepin it real here. In all likelihood we'll see a pretty big turnover in our personnel over the next couple of years. So the best chance for us to win it all is likely in the next year or two. In the modern NFL predicting any farther out than that is just too hard to do, and there are 31 other teams all planning to be good 3 or more years into the future. There's sure no guarantee we'll turnover our personnel any more successfully than they all will.

Not meaning to be a downer here, just agreeing with the others who've expressed their sentiment that our window is short, and we can't predict anything beyond that short window. I'm WAY optimistic though about our chances over the next year or two.


I don't see it that way. The biggest thing that hinders franchises in the NFL is the front office, coaching, and lack of talent at the QB position. If you have all 3 of those working for you, you can have a sustained run at success. You might have a couple of lean years here and there but you'll always be in the hunt. We are currently one of those teams who has all 3 in place. So I feel its a cop out to say our window is only open for so long. For every older star who ppl say only has a few years left so therefore our window is shorter, we have up and coming players. Guys where you can see the talent and know over time they could be the next Bowman or VD once they gain a some experience. They way we cultivate talent and groom players is evident. That's why we can no longer pass guys through waivers and teams constantly go after our PS guys. They see what we've done with guys like Boone, Brock, and Ian Williams. They see how we have essentially a NFL Farm system. Morris could be Brock in two or three years. A undrafted, speedy CB who was raw and had to work himself into a NFL player. Made his mark on STs his first few seasons as he developed, then was given an oopportunity and seized it. Marquadt could be the next Boone. Or maybe Netter? Purcell could be the next Ian Williams.

That's why I'm not with this whole 'window closing' rationale because we continue to mine the field and find talent from all over the place. We take UDFAs like Wilhoite and TJE and turn them into quality depth in the blink of a eye. And when they have to fill in for a Willis or a Ray Mac, they step up and the defense doesnt miss a beat. We sign a guy like Skuta to meager deal in free agency and he comes in plays his [inappropriate/removed] off and is making plays. So when our franchise pass-rusher is gone for 5 weeks, the defense is still performing at an elite level. The FAs we do go after, we usually hit on(Rogers, Whitner, Dorsey, Goodwin). And when we elect to let guys walk who have been productive(Aubrayo Franklin, Baas, Goldson, Sopoaga, Spikes) its because we know we can replenish those areas with either talented youth(RJF, Reid, Ian Williams, Bowman) or under the radar FAs(Goodwin, Dorsey, Grant). So to me, losing guys like Cowboy, Crabtree, and Gore will defintely suck. But Baalke has proven an ability to replenish the cupboard when the time comes, so if Tank, Patton, and Latt are the next in line, Im confortable with that becuase it must mean they're ready to step up and show out.

Maybe that's just how I look at things but this FO and staff have given me NO reason to think the trend won't continue. I don't think its luck or coincidence...I guess some do however. But to me, this is an exciting time to he a Niner fans because we seem to have found a formula on how to find talent. It seems like every off-season were acquiring personnel that are showing huge returns when the season rolls around. I'm excited every off-season to see what moves, both major and minor, will pay HUGE dividends during the season. It'd be different if teams were raiding our personnel staff and FO. That might give me pause for concern. But Baalke, JH, Marthe, and Jed are all still here, running the show. And that gives me a reason to be so optimistic.


exactly the way that I feel. I dont see how people cant see that when you look at teams like NE, Indy, Pitt, Bal, NYG, NO, GB. Its right there in front of you. All of those teams have stability at HC/GM/and a more then good QB. The same as SF. The Niners arent going anywhere. The window in my opinion is just opening. CK is a very young QB and is already one of the top threats in the game and he isnt even close to being polished as a passer. Harbs is one of the best coaches in the game easily top 5 and he surrounds himself with coaches that share in his mentailty and dedication. Baalke is a top GM and JEd wants it.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, to answer the question where do we go from here? Duh, to the Super Bowl Wink .
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Also, to answer the question where do we go from here? Duh, to the Super Bowl Wink .


and win it Dancing Dancing Dancing
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culliver wrote:
14-2.

Losses @DEN @SEA

#1 seed

Superbowl
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KEGster


Joined: 21 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Also, to answer the question where do we go from here? Duh, to the Super Bowl Wink .


and win it Dancing Dancing Dancing

The hype and expectations for Lattimore are getting outrageous. I think many fans are expecting him to take over the starting role by next years playoffs.
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KEGster


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way we can make 5-6-7 etc straight NFC title game, especially how strong the NFC currently is. That's absurd. We are due for a "Last Hurrah" followed by a retooling season. Whether this will be the 2014 season or the 2015 or POSSIBLY the 2016 season. It is coming.

History:
1985 - Lost Wild Card (3* straight NFC title games)
1991 - No Playoffs (3 straight NFC title games)
1995 - Lost Division (3 straight NFC title games)

2014 - ? (3 straight NFC title games)
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real question for me, for us all as armchair GMs, is having watched us get the the Conference title game 3 times and come away without a SB win, what do we need to do to make the team stronger. I seem to be reading a whole lot of sentiment along the lines of "Kap will be better and that's all we need". Lest we all forget Wilson has less time in the league than Kap. He'll likely be getting better too.

So, what personnel changes, coaching changes and/or offensive or defensive approach changes do we need to make?
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
The real question for me, for us all as armchair GMs, is having watched us get the the Conference title game 3 times and come away without a SB win, what do we need to do to make the team stronger. I seem to be reading a whole lot of sentiment along the lines of "Kap will be better and that's all we need". Lest we all forget Wilson has less time in the league than Kap. He'll likely be getting better too.

So, what personnel changes, coaching changes and/or offensive or defensive approach changes do we need to make?


I think 2 things need to happen that are controllable.

1) a deep threat is needed. Not a Ted Ginn type. A good one

2) I think there needs to be a shift in the mindset of the type of offense the Nienrs are. I think the need to spend the offseason and camps getting more pass oriented. Use the pass to set up the run. The offense is clearly not consistent enough and I think some of that comes from the passiveness on that side of the scheme. When the Niners offense was good this season it was in explosive chunk plays. The philosophy should be get up early and then run the clock down and play defense. Kaep can run and throw downfield. Use VD and another deep threat down field and lets air it our more often.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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KEGster


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Good post

I think everyone agrees with point #1 and whether we want to invest high draft picks on WRs is out of our control because Boldin/Crabtree are most likely departing in the next couple seasons. So replacements are vital not just short term but also long term

The thing I caution is fans are too quickly trying to shift our power running attack to a spread offense. IMO, because it's viewed as more effective versus Seattle. But I personally want us to keep our power running personality. I think our personnel and tactics win us atleast 1/4 of our schedule. Being such a team is a premium in this league. I don't want to see Kaepernick throw more than 25 times a game (24 this season). I think the offense evolves a bit with new pieces like Lattimore but I want us to keep our identity.

On defense, the corners have been and still need to be retooled. Free agency is forcing us to make necessary changes. On the defensive front I'd like to see us copy Seattle's recipe of bodies over stars. Meaning they constantly rotate in new bodies while we tend to lean on our superstars more. We need more depth, only the coaches know if we already have some on the roster (Carradine)
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