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milanb


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 6130
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
I laugh at the notion of Brian Robison being just ok

#1 43DE in QB hurries
#14t 43DE in sacks
#17t 43DE in QB hits
#2 43DE in combined hurries/sacks/hits (only behind Robert Quinn)
#17t 43DE in stops

There numbers encompass all 43DE's, not just LDE's. For a base end, Brian Robison is elite, not OK.


The problem is that all of these numbers were compiled with him being single-teamed against RTs and RGs (Frazier likes to line him up at DT on 3rd and long occasionally).

I doubt that OCs around the league lose a lot of sleep worrying about how they're gong to block Brian Robison.
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Freakout


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 2975
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really liking Deone Bucannon as a safety next to Smith if we stick with the tampa 2 / cover 2.
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DaCDiggity


Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 984
Location: Hawkeye State
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
Just realized that Garappolo lost last night
cuz of his teams D
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rpmwr19


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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 25288
Location: Stillwater, MN
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
rpmwr19 wrote:
I laugh at the notion of Brian Robison being just ok

#1 43DE in QB hurries
#14t 43DE in sacks
#17t 43DE in QB hits
#2 43DE in combined hurries/sacks/hits (only behind Robert Quinn)
#17t 43DE in stops

There numbers encompass all 43DE's, not just LDE's. For a base end, Brian Robison is elite, not OK.


The problem is that all of these numbers were compiled with him being single-teamed against RTs and RGs (Frazier likes to line him up at DT on 3rd and long occasionally).

I doubt that OCs around the league lose a lot of sleep worrying about how they're gong to block Brian Robison.

There is no way to know how many times he's been double teamed, and if he's kicking down to the three tech on passing downs he's being double teamed on the interior most likely.

There is nothing wrong with the numbers as all he can do is take advantage of what's in front of him, and he's definitely doing that.
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ArcticNorseman


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2169
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When looking at the Vikings D-line, Robison's good, Allen is a rare guy at RDE with his lenght/speed combo, K-will and Floyd are better-than-average at UT. Ummm, we don't really have a NT.

Griffen is really good and very versatile, which if you remember when Ray Edwards held down the LDE spot, Robison would often sub in for Pat Williams on passing downs. Griffen's filled that role admirably.

Now, the Vikes could draft Clowney if he falls to them -- but something about that guy's performance bothers me. Yes, he makes ONE highlight reel hit in the backfield every three or four games. Sure, he's doube-teamed, but he's not dominant --- nor does he fight every single play. Sadly, I admit I"ve seen some of that from Jared Allen this year (and some bad angles on the edge) -- and that is not acceptable, to me. I do believe he's played better, more tenacity, the past 3 or 4 games. So, do the Vikes re-sign Griffen, or let him walk and tag Allen?

I'd honestly pass on Clowney. There are a few 6-6" tall DEs this year and a couple of them would be great to groom behind Griffen or Allen. One or two of those guys will be 3rd or 4th round guys -- target a DE there.

In Round 2, 3 or 4, I could totally see the Vikes going after a big NT. McCullers may be gone by then, but there are a couple other 6'3" 325lb+ NTs who are possibilities. Beau Allen from Wisconsin might be a fit. If Penn State's DT slid, he might be a candidate too. Whoever comes out of the all-star games and combine with size, strength to anchor the line has and first-step pop to collapse the pocket is the type of guy they should work to get.

That said, there's still, IMO, a very strong need for LG, LB and CB. Yes, there's a need for a QB --- but until I see more games and read up on guys, I truthfully can't advocate taknig another QB in Round 1. I don't think there's any rookie-to-be that's better than what the Vikes have on the roster.
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Duff Man


Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 556
Location: Sveltville
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Starting Needs on offense - QB, OG
Starting Needs on defense - NT, CB, LB, S

The biggest needs on this team are in my opinion the 2 most important positions (1 offense & 1 defense)

That being QB and NT

I would to start the draft fixing one side of the team (the offense), since its "easier" since only 2 additional starters are needed.

So I'm a proponent of R1-QB, R2-OG followed by R3-NT (true 2 down)


My preferred order would be:

1 - QB
2 - LB
3 - NT
3 - SS
4 - OG
5 - CB
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[UMN]


Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 13303
Location: Desolation Row
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think CB is a much bigger need than LB.

Cole is looking like a starting caliber LB, Greenway isn't going anywhere, and between Henderson, Mauti and Hodges we are fine at the last spot. The 3rd LB only plays 10-20 snaps per game anyway.

On the other hand, we really have nothing at CB outside of Rhodes, who has had some issues staying healthy. Cook is probably gone after the year, and we could use an upgrade regardless. Robinson and Sherels really aren't anything to bank on either.
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Boda


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 831
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO our biggest need on this team is a LB, followed by QB, NT & CB. However their isn't much of a gap between these 4 positions
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Longest Lurker


Joined: 10 Nov 2013
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freakout wrote:
I am really liking Deone Bucannon as a safety next to Smith if we stick with the tampa 2 / cover 2.


Agree. I have been working on a mock with him in it.
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Longest Lurker


Joined: 10 Nov 2013
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[UMN] wrote:
I think CB is a much bigger need than LB.

Cole is looking like a starting caliber LB, Greenway isn't going anywhere, and between Henderson, Mauti and Hodges we are fine at the last spot. The 3rd LB only plays 10-20 snaps per game anyway.

On the other hand, we really have nothing at CB outside of Rhodes, who has had some issues staying healthy. Cook is probably gone after the year, and we could use an upgrade regardless. Robinson and Sherels really aren't anything to bank on either.


It's really a tale of two halves. The first half of the season - the LBs were the sorest spot on D, and now with the reshuffling of the LB lineup it is starting to look better. Conversely, the corners looked serviceable in the first half, but Cook has just looked terrible and has really solidified his legendary lack of ball skills.
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Longest Lurker


Joined: 10 Nov 2013
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArcticNorseman wrote:
In Round 2, 3 or 4, I could totally see the Vikes going after a big NT. McCullers may be gone by then, but there are a couple other 6'3" 325lb+ NTs who are possibilities. Beau Allen from Wisconsin might be a fit. If Penn State's DT slid, he might be a candidate too. Whoever comes out of the all-star games and combine with size, strength to anchor the line has and first-step pop to collapse the pocket is the type of guy they should work to get.

That said, there's still, IMO, a very strong need for LG, LB and CB. Yes, there's a need for a QB --- but until I see more games and read up on guys, I truthfully can't advocate taknig another QB in Round 1. I don't think there's any rookie-to-be that's better than what the Vikes have on the roster.


I'm not a real big fan of the DEs in this draft either. I understand the importance of having a great DE, but as you have noticed many QBs just step up into the pocket when they feel the pressure on the outside. I can't tell you how many times I see JA or BRob get in the backfield only to have the QB step up into a nice clean pocket. So we do need pressure in the middle, and I don't think blitzing your LBs through the A gap is a long-term solution. We need to find a way to muck up the pocket inside with interior pressure. We could do it by either getting another quick step penetrator next to Floyd, or a space-eater to free up Floyd. It would be hard to get both in the same person (both wide and quick).
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 6980
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd McShay ‏@McShay13 57m
E. Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo's only 2 L's this yr: N.Illinois (but scored 39) and FCS qtrfinals(completed 76% w/ 321 and 0 INTs in snow)
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Krauser


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
Krauser wrote:
Yeah I don't know if Nix is any good, I basically never watch college games. Just going by what I've read.

Point being that the marginal value of
(someone as good as Nix might be) plus Floyd
plus Griffen/Robison/rookie DE...

...might be better than
(Clowney or other highly touted DE)/Griffen/Robison platooning at DE
plus Floyd and a huge hole wearing #98 at DT

and that approach might net us an extra 1st or 2nd rounder to improve the back 7 while still being able to draft a QB in the first 70 picks.


The question would be: 2 downs of Nix plus Griffen starting and a third round DE rotating in

vs.

2 downs of a 3rd round NT (say McCullers) plus Clowney starting and Griffen rotating in

The 2nd option seems significantly better to me.


Sure, that would probably be a better DL.

But your version costs a top 5 pick for Clowney and a ? 3rd rounder for the big NT. Add in last year's 1st-rounder (Floyd) and 2 guys getting big raises in Robison and Griffen despite the fact that only 1 of them will be in the starting lineup -- and you've put most of your resources in the DL.

My version expects both Robison and Griffen to be on the field in most game situations (as you'd expect given that they'd be 2 of only 3 well-paid vets on the defense, along with Greenway), upgrades NT (if Nix or Hageman or whoever is better than McCullers or another 3rd rounder), and nets an extra pick from trading down, which can be used to fill other holes. You can then find a project DE in the 3rd or 4th round, to develop as a backup and situational pass rusher, filling the role Edwards and Robison and Griffen had as rookies.

So it's:

Clowney/Floyd/McCullers/Robison plus Griffen making more money doing his old job
plus 1 pick each in the 2nd-4th rounds
(assuming the starting NT is drafted in the 3rd)

or

Griffen/Floyd/Hageman/Robison plus rookie DE in Griffen's old role
plus the trade down pick, maybe late 1st or early 2nd --> could be an eventual starter at LB or CB
plus the usual 3 picks in the 2nd-3rd rounds
(assuming the backup rookie DE is drafted in the 4th)

I just don't see why you'd pay Griffen starter money (assuming that's what he gets offered on the market) if he's never going to be more than a situational player. How much better is he going to be in that role than a replacement level FA or a rookie taken in the mid rounds?

If they're planning to draft Clowney, and it's realistic to expect him to fall to them, they'd be better off letting Griffen go and spending the money on a veteran DB instead.
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BigDog74


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 593
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Dream Off-Season:

End up with the #3 pick
-Replace the coaching staff, possible switch to the 3-4 (not a necessity)
-Sign Jarius Byrd
-Trade #3 & 4th round pick to Cleveland for #7 and #23
- At #7 Draft Bortles, if he declares.
-At #23 Draft C.J Mosley, I have a feeling he falls in the draft. He could go earlier and I wouldn't be against a trade up from #23, but I don't see him as a can't miss ala Willis, Kuechly. Still would be a huge upgrade over current LBing core

We'd improve our LB, S defensive core while also getting my mancrush at QB now that Mariota has withdrawn from the draft. Really like Bortles game, pocket mover with a solid arm. Is this a realistic possibility? Thoughts? Would've done a mock draft, but finals are in full swing so I'll have to hold off for awhile
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KeithVikings28


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1193
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dream draft: We trade picks with Cleveland

1st- QB Johnny Manziel TAMU
1st- NT/DT Ra'shede Hageman MINN
2nd- DE Trevor Reilly UTAH
3rd- ILB/OLB Christian Jones FSU
3rd- CB Keith McGill UTAH
4th- OLB Telvin Smith FSU
5th- WR Jeff Janis SV
6th- RB/WR/PR/KR De'Anthony Thomas ORE
7th- OT Cornelius Lucas KSU
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