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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Here's what I'm asking: how were the struggles Stafford displayed yesterday similar to the struggles he has displayed over the previous four games?


If he's not struggling with one thing, he's struggling in something else then, at least in the past 4 games. How is that not an issue?
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bench Stafford, fire Schwartz, fire Mayhew.... posters think they have all the answers. What's next, trade CJ?

I think our problems are on D. When our DL gets neutralized, we suck. We are 2nd in yards, 3rd in pass yards and 6th in points. Clearly Stafford is not the problem.
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Cruz is one of best WR in the game


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(Eli) Manning has a new look offense and he has looked really good in it.


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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Here's what I'm asking: how were the struggles Stafford displayed yesterday similar to the struggles he has displayed over the previous four games?


If he's not struggling with one thing, he's struggling in something else then, at least in the past 4 games. How is that not an issue?

I was comparing the PHI game to the games before it. His struggles against the Eagles weren't the same, and seemed to be a byproduct of the weather.
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Rockcity


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
Bench Stafford, fire Schwartz, fire Mayhew.... posters think they have all the answers. What's next, trade CJ?

I think our problems are on D. When our DL gets neutralized, we suck. We are 2nd in yards, 3rd in pass yards and 6th in points. Clearly Stafford is not the problem.
so fire gun?
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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
Bench Stafford, fire Schwartz, fire Mayhew.... posters think they have all the answers. What's next, trade CJ?

I think our problems are on D. When our DL gets neutralized, we suck. We are 2nd in yards, 3rd in pass yards and 6th in points. Clearly Stafford is not the problem.
so fire gun?


Acquire more secondary talent and possibly new secondary coach.
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Rockcity


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrRay11 wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
SuhPLEX wrote:
Bench Stafford, fire Schwartz, fire Mayhew.... posters think they have all the answers. What's next, trade CJ?

I think our problems are on D. When our DL gets neutralized, we suck. We are 2nd in yards, 3rd in pass yards and 6th in points. Clearly Stafford is not the problem.
so fire gun?


Acquire more secondary talent and possibly new secondary coach.
gun didnt have any say in the secondary we got?
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Here's what I'm asking: how were the struggles Stafford displayed yesterday similar to the struggles he has displayed over the previous four games?


If he's not struggling with one thing, he's struggling in something else then, at least in the past 4 games. How is that not an issue?

I was comparing the PHI game to the games before it. His struggles against the Eagles weren't the same, and seemed to be a byproduct of the weather.


So what?

Other QB's are able to handle the ball in the weather. Its part of the game.

It's the weather, or the receivers, or the play calling but it doesn't ever seem to fall on Stafford.

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/lions-insider/article-1/STATS-PACK-Monday-nights-game-could-come-down-to-fourth-quarter-quarterback-play/13673e15-09b8-4b2b-829f-310abc536c67
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuhPLEX wrote:
Bench Stafford, fire Schwartz, fire Mayhew.... posters think they have all the answers. What's next, trade CJ?

I think our problems are on D. When our DL gets neutralized, we suck. We are 2nd in yards, 3rd in pass yards and 6th in points. Clearly Stafford is not the problem.


It's what we discuss in these forums.

It's pretty obvious from years of watching the Lions there are problems and any problem has numerous solutions.

As for Stafford,

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/lions-insider/article-1/STATS-PACK-Monday-nights-game-could-come-down-to-fourth-quarter-quarterback-play/13673e15-09b8-4b2b-829f-310abc536c67

But clearly he isn't part of the problem.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Here's what I'm asking: how were the struggles Stafford displayed yesterday similar to the struggles he has displayed over the previous four games?


If he's not struggling with one thing, he's struggling in something else then, at least in the past 4 games. How is that not an issue?

I was comparing the PHI game to the games before it. His struggles against the Eagles weren't the same, and seemed to be a byproduct of the weather.


So what?

Other QB's are able to handle the ball in the weather. Its part of the game.

It's the weather, or the receivers, or the play calling but it doesn't ever seem to fall on Stafford.

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/lions-insider/article-1/STATS-PACK-Monday-nights-game-could-come-down-to-fourth-quarter-quarterback-play/13673e15-09b8-4b2b-829f-310abc536c67

I was responding to an argument that stated that Stafford was "continuing to struggle". His "struggles" against PHI weren't the same mistakes that he had made in weeks prior, and were a direct result of the conditions.

Secondly, the first half of the Eagles game wasn't just "weather"... those conditions were unusually extreme. Every QB in the NFL would struggle in a game where you couldn't see the receivers you were supposed to be throwing to.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Here's what I'm asking: how were the struggles Stafford displayed yesterday similar to the struggles he has displayed over the previous four games?


If he's not struggling with one thing, he's struggling in something else then, at least in the past 4 games. How is that not an issue?

I was comparing the PHI game to the games before it. His struggles against the Eagles weren't the same, and seemed to be a byproduct of the weather.


So what?

Other QB's are able to handle the ball in the weather. Its part of the game.

It's the weather, or the receivers, or the play calling but it doesn't ever seem to fall on Stafford.

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/lions-insider/article-1/STATS-PACK-Monday-nights-game-could-come-down-to-fourth-quarter-quarterback-play/13673e15-09b8-4b2b-829f-310abc536c67

I was responding to an argument that stated that Stafford was "continuing to struggle". His "struggles" against PHI weren't the same mistakes that he had made in weeks prior, and were a direct result of the conditions.

Secondly, the first half of the Eagles game wasn't just "weather"... those conditions were unusually extreme. Every QB in the NFL would struggle in a game where you couldn't see the receivers you were supposed to be throwing to.


Every other QB wouldn't have Stafford's difficulty holding the ball and we don't have to look any further than the opposing QB who played in the same conditions.

Further, if your suggesting Stafford was throwing the ball to receivers he couldn't, or had difficulty seeing then there's a bigger problem than anyone is acknowledging.
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RIP CITY


Joined: 21 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stafford definitely needs to put in some work in the next couple years to clean up some things but benching him at this point in the season just won't help this team. Shaun Hill does not give this team a better chance to win, that's just simply not true.

The thing I've noticed with Stafford in the last 3 seasons is he tends to have these 3-4 game stretches where he turns the ball over alot, he needs to clean that up. Before the last 4 games he had only 8 INT's and probably 6-7 fumbles. To be honest, I think it's because he's trying too hard to make something out of nothing because outside of Calvin he really doesn't have any reliable options in the passing game, dumping it to Bell/Bush is about all he has left if Calvin isn't open. I think adding another legitimate target in the passing game and getting this supporting group to stop dropping so many passes will make a world of difference for Stafford and make the game easier for him so he doesn't have to take as many chances and risk as many turnovers.

At the end of the day Stafford needs to make some improvements in his game and continue to develop and I believe without a shadow of doubt that not only does Stafford himself know this, but he will do his best to work on those things in the offseason, training camps and practices going forward. Just for example, Tony Romo, while still inconsistent has vastly improved his interception numbers, at an older age than Stafford currently is. Yes, Romo still makes bad mistakes at bad times but overall he's kept his total INT numbers down in the 7-10 INT's per season range in 3 of the past 4 years, that wasn't the case earlier in his career. I believe Stafford can do the same because if you look at his last 3 seasons, alot of his INT's and fumbles have came in these 3-4 games stretches and for the rest of the season he has been perfectly adequate in taking care of the ball. He just need to stay more consistent for the entire season.

Stafford is by far the best QB the Lions have had in my lifetime and is already arguably the 2nd best QB in Lions history. There are NOT that many QB's in the NFL that are better than him and we're not getting any of the QB's that are. He's 25 years old, and I don't believe he's reached his peak yet. I'm willing to live and die with Stafford behind center and I think as he moves forward in his career he will learn to take better care of the football and limit these stretches during the season where he makes these mistakes. I also think adding a legitimate #2 WR will make alot of difference in his play, because he won't be forced to try to make plays that just simply aren't there. Also, cutting his pass attempts down another 50-60 per season and continuing the run the ball alittle more will also help with his turnovers and give him more options with play action plays and less pressure on him to win the game with just him and Calvin making all the plays down the stretch of tight games.

(And at least 4 of those 12 fumbles are 100% Riaola's fault for snapping the ball too soon or poorly in general)
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what gets me is that they knew we needed wr help..these wrs must look good against our secdary in practice tho...
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP CITY wrote:
Stafford definitely needs to put in some work in the next couple years to clean up some things but benching him at this point in the season just won't help this team. Shaun Hill does not give this team a better chance to win, that's just simply not true.

The thing I've noticed with Stafford in the last 3 seasons is he tends to have these 3-4 game stretches where he turns the ball over alot, he needs to clean that up. Before the last 4 games he had only 8 INT's and probably 6-7 fumbles. To be honest, I think it's because he's trying too hard to make something out of nothing because outside of Calvin he really doesn't have any reliable options in the passing game, dumping it to Bell/Bush is about all he has left if Calvin isn't open. I think adding another legitimate target in the passing game and getting this supporting group to stop dropping so many passes will make a world of difference for Stafford and make the game easier for him so he doesn't have to take as many chances and risk as many turnovers.

At the end of the day Stafford needs to make some improvements in his game and continue to develop and I believe without a shadow of doubt that not only does Stafford himself know this, but he will do his best to work on those things in the offseason, training camps and practices going forward. Just for example, Tony Romo, while still inconsistent has vastly improved his interception numbers, at an older age than Stafford currently is. Yes, Romo still makes bad mistakes at bad times but overall he's kept his total INT numbers down in the 7-10 INT's per season range in 3 of the past 4 years, that wasn't the case earlier in his career. I believe Stafford can do the same because if you look at his last 3 seasons, alot of his INT's and fumbles have came in these 3-4 games stretches and for the rest of the season he has been perfectly adequate in taking care of the ball. He just need to stay more consistent for the entire season.

Stafford is by far the best QB the Lions have had in my lifetime and is already arguably the 2nd best QB in Lions history. There are NOT that many QB's in the NFL that are better than him and we're not getting any of the QB's that are. He's 25 years old, and I don't believe he's reached his peak yet. I'm willing to live and die with Stafford behind center and I think as he moves forward in his career he will learn to take better care of the football and limit these stretches during the season where he makes these mistakes. I also think adding a legitimate #2 WR will make alot of difference in his play, because he won't be forced to try to make plays that just simply aren't there. Also, cutting his pass attempts down another 50-60 per season and continuing the run the ball alittle more will also help with his turnovers and give him more options with play action plays and less pressure on him to win the game with just him and Calvin making all the plays down the stretch of tight games.

(And at least 4 of those 12 fumbles are 100% Riaola's fault for snapping the ball too soon or poorly in general)



I think this is a reasonable post.

Stafford has the most potential to excel of any player other than arguably CJ, Sanders and Sims in my life time. He has the potential to be the most important player in franchise history.

That goes to the point I'm trying to make. His development and progression is extremely important and at times, I'm of the opinion, removing him from the game for a series, two series, the rest of the game or an entire game may enhance his growth not hinder it.

Everyone acts like this approach is equal to throwing in the towel and condemning him to failure which couldn't be further from the objective or the truth.

As you pointed out Stafford has stretches where he struggles. Perhaps he is trying to hard to make something out of nothing and these are excellent times to have him out of the game, refocus, collect his composure and discuss the game with Linehan.

Its a proven methodology that has worked well in player development in all sports.
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fortdetroit


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like Stafford to cut down on his interceptions (obviously) but I think his total interception numbers need to be put in perspective compared to the rest of the NFL. I mean, he passes more than every other QB in the NFL over the last 3 seasons (hell, more than any QB in NFL HISTORY)...so it's not really fair to just take his raw interception totals and compare it to other QBs in the NFL who pass less and sometimes much less.

This year he is middle of the pack in INT% but last year he was 9th among starters and in 2011 he was 11th.
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fortdetroit


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP CITY wrote:
Stafford definitely needs to put in some work in the next couple years to clean up some things but benching him at this point in the season just won't help this team. Shaun Hill does not give this team a better chance to win, that's just simply not true.

The thing I've noticed with Stafford in the last 3 seasons is he tends to have these 3-4 game stretches where he turns the ball over alot, he needs to clean that up. Before the last 4 games he had only 8 INT's and probably 6-7 fumbles. To be honest, I think it's because he's trying too hard to make something out of nothing because outside of Calvin he really doesn't have any reliable options in the passing game, dumping it to Bell/Bush is about all he has left if Calvin isn't open. I think adding another legitimate target in the passing game and getting this supporting group to stop dropping so many passes will make a world of difference for Stafford and make the game easier for him so he doesn't have to take as many chances and risk as many turnovers.

At the end of the day Stafford needs to make some improvements in his game and continue to develop and I believe without a shadow of doubt that not only does Stafford himself know this, but he will do his best to work on those things in the offseason, training camps and practices going forward. Just for example, Tony Romo, while still inconsistent has vastly improved his interception numbers, at an older age than Stafford currently is. Yes, Romo still makes bad mistakes at bad times but overall he's kept his total INT numbers down in the 7-10 INT's per season range in 3 of the past 4 years, that wasn't the case earlier in his career. I believe Stafford can do the same because if you look at his last 3 seasons, alot of his INT's and fumbles have came in these 3-4 games stretches and for the rest of the season he has been perfectly adequate in taking care of the ball. He just need to stay more consistent for the entire season.

Stafford is by far the best QB the Lions have had in my lifetime and is already arguably the 2nd best QB in Lions history. There are NOT that many QB's in the NFL that are better than him and we're not getting any of the QB's that are. He's 25 years old, and I don't believe he's reached his peak yet. I'm willing to live and die with Stafford behind center and I think as he moves forward in his career he will learn to take better care of the football and limit these stretches during the season where he makes these mistakes. I also think adding a legitimate #2 WR will make alot of difference in his play, because he won't be forced to try to make plays that just simply aren't there. Also, cutting his pass attempts down another 50-60 per season and continuing the run the ball alittle more will also help with his turnovers and give him more options with play action plays and less pressure on him to win the game with just him and Calvin making all the plays down the stretch of tight games.

(And at least 4 of those 12 fumbles are 100% Riaola's fault for snapping the ball too soon or poorly in general)


This is key. The type of offense the Lions run (throwing 40-50 times a game no matter what) doesn't really help efficiency.
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