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The Race to #1 --- Now the Draft Position Thread
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Vino


Joined: 27 Oct 2013
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
Jaguarfan wrote:
Vino wrote:
.
I know it's hard to imagine but it's really looking like there is a scenario where we won't be addressing our QB situation this year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Build up the defense some more so when we do get a QB he won't be coming to a bad situation. That said, even though it's hard to believe, our offense could really be even worse next year if Marcedes and MJD leave.

No, there isn't a scenario where we aren't addressing our QB situation.
We will definitely be addressing it in some way.


Yeah, I just don't know what we'll do. I really think we'll either trade up from our pick in the 1st to nab Carr/Bortles (yes, I think Bortles goes a lot higher than what's been said in here), or we trade up from our 2nd rd to get a guy in the late 1st range. Everything hinges on tonight though, because Texans could get some momentum if they win, a lot of their losses were very close and they barely got beat by NE.
no, I really wouldn't like that and don't think Caldwell will do that. He will take the best player available to him at a position we need to fix in the first round, we have far too many positions to fix to be reaching for QBs that aren't worth trading up for. Carr and Bortles aren't worth that...if Caldwell does it then I trust it's because he sees something special in them, but I don't think he will do that. I'd expect him to take one of the linebackers or OT/OG players with where it's looking like our pick is heading. 2015 draft has a far better crop of QBs coming out, that will be the time to trade up. Not this year. Just be patient. We can use this year to build up the defense more and solidify the O-Line so when we draft a QB they won't be coming into a bad situation. And it's very possible our offense will be even worse next year than it was this year, so the chances of us drafting pretty high next year is likely.

iPwn wrote:
And to be clear, that Bridgewater vs Carr stuff, most of that (aside from his pocket issues) isn't a knock on Carr so much as it's a testament to just how incredible of a prospect that Teddy is. If you remove my concerns over the pocket presence and how he performs under pressure, Carr is a great prospect in my eyes. He has work to be done, but he's got the pieces there to develop into a great QB. My biggest concern is how he folds under pressure and I think that could definitely hold him back and after seeing Gabbert in the pocket, I'm a little more hesitant to trust in a guy who doesn't handle pressure well. The rest of the stuff though, that's just Teddy being more developed than basically anybody you'll see when they come out of college. Teddy's development on a lot of those things isn't that of a college QB, they're typical of a 3-4 year vet who just had it finally click at the NFL level.
Well we're definitely not getting him either way now. I don't like him going to Houston, they manage to ruin every QB they draft.
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-Hope-


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this thread title now refers to #1 team in the NFL, amirite?
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vikes22


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the crap outcome tonight Jags fans.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Hope- wrote:
So this thread title now refers to #1 team in the NFL, amirite?
Let me tell ya something, -Hope-. They out here talking bout that #1 pick, the only #1 you need to know about is the Jacksonville Jaguars. See because what the NFL is dealing with here is DUVALL. It's nonstop from this point on. In the NFL, we take what we want. And after we take the Bills, Titans and Colts, we want the trophy sucka. Seattle Seahawks, we comin for you ----!
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Vino


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can still hope a team that doesn't need a QB gets the number 1 pick next year and we're able to trade up for Jameis/Mariota/Hundley.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikes22 wrote:
Sorry for the crap outcome tonight Jags fans.


Very, very far from that.

3 straight, 4 of 5, 1st win at home in a long time. It was much needed. Gus is going to attract a lot of guys wanting to come here imo.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God Winston would be such a great match for this team. He preaches exactly what Bradley subscribes to. I really wish there was some way we could get him.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vino wrote:


I know it's hard to imagine but it's really looking like there is a scenario where we won't be addressing our QB situation this year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Build up the defense some more so when we do get a QB he won't be coming to a bad situation. That said, even though it's hard to believe, our offense could really be even worse next year if Marcedes and MJD leave.


They can't ignore, and not address the QB situation this year.

People get their feathers all ruffled when someone suggests the idea of 'tanking' the remainder of meaningless games in a season like this because it's 'not competing' and 'throwing in the towel' or whatever.

Failing to address the QB situation that has been an issue for so long, for yet another year is just as bad to me, and in the same vein. It's throwing in the towel on legitimately competing next year, before they even hit the field. I don't see how that's not in the same category as 'tanking' at that point.
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sadjag


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
Vino wrote:


I know it's hard to imagine but it's really looking like there is a scenario where we won't be addressing our QB situation this year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Build up the defense some more so when we do get a QB he won't be coming to a bad situation. That said, even though it's hard to believe, our offense could really be even worse next year if Marcedes and MJD leave.


They can't ignore, and not address the QB situation this year.

People get their feathers all ruffled when someone suggests the idea of 'tanking' the remainder of meaningless games in a season like this because it's 'not competing' and 'throwing in the towel' or whatever.

Failing to address the QB situation that has been an issue for so long, for yet another year is just as bad to me, and in the same vein. It's throwing in the towel on legitimately competing next year, before they even hit the field. I don't see how that's not in the same category as 'tanking' at that point.
Ostensibly for the same reason it was n't "tanking" too not take a QB in last years draft, there just wasn't anyone there.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadjag wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
Vino wrote:


I know it's hard to imagine but it's really looking like there is a scenario where we won't be addressing our QB situation this year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Build up the defense some more so when we do get a QB he won't be coming to a bad situation. That said, even though it's hard to believe, our offense could really be even worse next year if Marcedes and MJD leave.


They can't ignore, and not address the QB situation this year.

People get their feathers all ruffled when someone suggests the idea of 'tanking' the remainder of meaningless games in a season like this because it's 'not competing' and 'throwing in the towel' or whatever.

Failing to address the QB situation that has been an issue for so long, for yet another year is just as bad to me, and in the same vein. It's throwing in the towel on legitimately competing next year, before they even hit the field. I don't see how that's not in the same category as 'tanking' at that point.
Ostensibly for the same reason it was n't "tanking" too not take a QB in last years draft, there just wasn't anyone there.


It was also at least partially justifiable at the same time, to make absolutely sure Gabbert sucked. Which we've successfully done. He's bad. It's resulted in a non-competitive season, as expected. And even with those reasons...it still came off a lot like 'tanking'. This board, and many many Jaguars fans in general seemed pretty understanding that this was going to be a 'tank' season for Teddy even going into the season from the opening kickoff.

Are we going to going into next season with Chad Henne running the show and resign ourselves to twiddling our thumbs through another non-competitive season...with the QB position being the obvious hole? That's no better than 'tanking' to me.

Just can't go another year without doing anything to address the position. Even if that ends up being a 3rd round flyer on a guy...there has to be something, some semblance of moving forward and addressing the most glaring issue on the team.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay well if you want some symbolic draft pick to show they're trying, maybe they'll draft Fales or Garapollo in the third or fourth round. But honestly...that's all they will likely do at this point unless Manziel drops to the second. None of the QBs coming out are worth trading up for, and most of the guys that could be something will likely be gone before we get to the second. Not to mention, I don't think Caldwell is really feeling pressured to draft a guy he thinks isn't the guy just because people want the position to be addressed anyway. When he finds someone he likes he'll take him then. Regardless, considering most of the guys with potential will likely be gone by the time we get to our spot, that leaves guys like McCarron, Fales, and Garapollo...and none of them have the makings for Nick Foles or Russell Wilson honestly, and if Caldwell doesn't see anything in them he won't draft them.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vino wrote:
Okay well if you want some symbolic draft pick to show they're trying, maybe they'll draft Fales or Garapollo in the third or fourth round. But honestly...that's all they will likely do at this point unless Manziel drops to the second. None of the QBs coming out are worth trading up for, and most of the guys that could be something will likely be gone before we get to the second. Not to mention, I don't think Caldwell is really feeling pressured to draft a guy he thinks isn't the guy just because people want the position to be addressed anyway. When he finds someone he likes he'll take him then. Regardless, considering most of the guys with potential will likely be gone by the time we get to our spot, that leaves guys like McCarron, Fales, and Garapollo...and none of them have the makings for Nick Foles or Russell Wilson honestly, and if Caldwell doesn't see anything in them he won't draft them.


It's not about a token 'symbolic gesture'...it's about an actual attempt to address the QB situation. It can't be ignored, and taking a guy in the 3rd or 4th round just to say they did isn't going to work either. This team needs a Quarterback, wherever they come from. There needs to be at least some semblance of acknowledgement of this issue if they want to maintain any credibility in really 'trying to win'.

As for the bolded, we simply don't have the ammunition to 'trade up' for a guy at this point, even if that were an option or what it came down to. We can't afford to go tossing around the sort of high picks it would take to 'move up for a QB' at this stage, our team still has holes everywhere, despite eeking out a few wins against bad teams. We still need players at the top end of our depth chart at nearly every position.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, well it's really stupid to use a top 10 pick on guys like Boyd or Manziel or Fales or McCarron at this point just because they feel pressured to show they're trying to address that spot...which is why I said it would a symbolic gesture, because it would be. Wasting a pick on a guy they don't think is worth it just to appease fans is never a good idea and I would lose faith in Caldwell if he did that. He's only going into his second draft, he shouldn't be pressured to address the QB situation if he doesn't feel there's a real solution to it yet and especially when there are so many other spots on this team that need to be addressed. Caldwell, if he's a good GM, will either draft the best player available to him at linebacker or OT/OG or trade back with where we will be. I don't want to see us literally waste a top 10 pick just to try and for a look of doing something on the QB end.

I don't have a problem with him drafting Fales or Garapollo in the third or fourth round. Or Manziel if he falls to the second. But that's the only scenario i will be ok with as far as QB is concerned with where we're at right now. There's no point in forcing the issue, it's just going to make it worse by giving up top 10 talent to reach for a QB in the first who probably won't even be able to start out the gate.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vino wrote:
Okay, well it's really stupid to use a top 10 pick on guys like Boyd or Manziel or Fales or McCarron at this point just because they feel pressured to show they're trying to address that spot...which is why I said it would a symbolic gesture, because it would be. Wasting a pick on a guy they don't think is worth it just to appease fans is never a good idea and I would lose faith in Caldwell if he did that. He's only going into his second draft, he shouldn't be pressured to address the QB situation if he doesn't feel there's a real solution to it yet and especially when there are so many other spots on this team that need to be addressed. Caldwell, if he's a good GM, will either draft the best player available to him at linebacker or OT/OG or trade back with where we will be. I don't want to see us literally waste a top 10 pick just to try and for a look of doing something on the QB end.

I don't have a problem with him drafting Fales or Garapollo in the third or fourth round. Or Manziel if he falls to the second. But that's the only scenario i will be ok with as far as QB is concerned with where we're at right now. There's no point in forcing the issue, it's just going to make it worse by giving up top 10 talent to reach for a QB in the first who probably won't even be able to start out the gate.


I'm not at all even remotely suggesting we burn another top-10 pick on a QB 'just because', or reach out of desperation. Just like i thought the talk of drafting Geno at #2 last year 'because we needed a QB' was totally foolish. All i'm saying, is that the the byproduct of us losing the 'Race for #1' is that it's painting Caldwell into more of a corner, and making it just that much more difficult to address the QB position with great confidence. That's the way it is, but it's hard for me to be super positive about that.

If we're not going to find a guy with our 1st pick, nor are we going to bring in a FA/Trade guy, they're going to have to come from somewhere...i'd assume a later pick. But i will be unhappy if Caldwell decides to wave the white flag and just call another mulligan on the QB position, do nothing to rectify the situation, deferring the absolute most glaring issue on this team for another entire year. A good GM can't just sit around waiting for the perfect QB solution to fall into their lap...that rarely happens. As we're learning this year...even the simple solution of tanking to solve that problem is a tricky tricky business...apparently.
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Vino


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't expect him to do something out of nothing. Like I said if he drafts a QB he'll get Garappolo or Fales in the third or fourth rounds.
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