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Jrry32 Early December Mock - TRADES!
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been a big doubter of him getting a big contract to play OT somewhere, but he filled in quite well for Long Sunday and think its very possible he gets an offer or two. Id love if he stayed, but Idk.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StLunatic88 wrote:
I was with you on Alshon, so that argument holds no water with me. I dont see the same things in Evans that Alshon was doing. And honestly I think you are going alittle overboard using the past 6-7 weeks as proof that Alshon was worth a Top 10 pick, because that is a stretch. Especially while being on an Offense with arguably the Top dual-threat RB, a Top 5 WR, and a Top 10 TE and a coach that specializes in these types of offenses. People could have pointed to last year, and said he was lucky to go in the 2nd, that would have been wrong, but he was not this player last year.


They do the exact same type of things.

And Alshon was worth a top 10 pick. He'll continue to prove that.

He was a rookie last year.

Quote:
Evans is a good prospect, but Like I said, to take an Weapon over one of the Major Draft positions (QB, LT, Rusher, CB) I feel like they have to be truly and undeniably Elite. And if Evans Proves that he truly does have that Speed (cuz honestly he hasn't been going up against many Top CBs to gauge) then we have a different situation. Because it is a misconception that SEC Speed applies to the Secondary, all major conferences have speed back there, the "SEC Speed" is a thing because the Front 7 have the same type of Speed and the Secondary in all conferences.


While LT is nice, we have Jake Long and Barksdale. That won't stop me from taking Matthews but if I get a trade down offer, I see no reason not to do it. The only pass rusher I'm taking is Clowney unless a guy like Khalil Mack who can play 4-3 OLB and rush the passer is the best value. I don't like any of the CBs enough to take them top 10.

Evans is at the top of the value board for me at this pick.

Quote:
If we are still in the Top 7, With atleast 2 or maybe 3 QBs going, as well as Clowney, I would think Mathews or Barr could still be there. (LT/Rusher) and I would still have to heavily debate Evans vs Lewan after all the athleticism and power he has displayed when I watch him. But regardless of who is still there, Evans is not a Top 10 lock Prospect to me, so Im not going to be sold on that from what I have seen this year. Alshon Proved everyone wrong by running in the 4.4s at the Combine, but teams ignored it due to the "lazy" tag. If Evans can legitimately do the same thing, then I will change my tune.


I doubt Matthews is there. Barr might be but he's not a guy we should consider. He's not a scheme fit or a dominant enough player for me to want him in the top 7.

Evans vs. Lewan is not a debate for me.

Alshon didn't run at the combine.

I don't care where Mike Evans goes, I want him on the Rams unless Brian Quick turns into Brandon Marshall or Calvin Johnson over the final few games.
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holt_bruce81


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrry, always love reading your mocks, I think your one of the more knowledgeable posters on here, I like it for the most part. I'm not going to even pretend I've seen some of these guys in action.

If we go Corner in the 2nd round, I want EJ Gaines. But I'm sure this forum having a high percentage of Mizzou fans on it, that topic will be beat to death over the next few months.

Also, I need someone to sell me on David Fales. I realize you have him being selected as a backup, but I just don't see why we would take him over say some of the other QBs that might be on the board. Seems like he can throw a good 5 yard pass.
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kgarrett12486


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:
Saffold could definitely be re-signed here. He's lost his job at both tackle positions, so if someone else offers him a large contract, it would be at guard, where he has very little experience and has only played average. Not to mention he has durability concerns.

I'm not sure who came up with the idea of him getting paid, but it looks less likely every week.


I hate when people say this, it's simply not true. He never "lost" his job. That would imply that he was benched or downgraded on the depth chart. That didn't happen...

He was moved to RT because the team felt they had a chance to get better at both OT spots by signing Long. They viewed Long as an elite LT (top five caliber straight from Fisher's mouth) and Saffold was a better fit at RT and an upgrade there. He was playing just fine at that spot until he went down with an injury...

Barksdale is playing well at RT when Saffold is ready to return. There is a hole at RG. They shift Saffold there because of his versatility. He's playing well there (far from average) and we have our 3 best O-lineman on the field at once, hence why the O-line has been continuing t trend upward over the last few weeks...

Plus, I'm not sure where you get this idea that other teams are only gonna pay him as an OG. He has quality tape at all three postions. Hell, he even stepped in and played LT last week when Long went down and did a better job on Aldon Smith than Long was before...

The fact is Saffold is an above average player at three different positions on the O-line. That has immense value to teams in the NFL. If anything these last few weeks have only increased his value...

The queston with Saffold has always been durability, not his play. He's going to draw attention from other teams...
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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgarrett12486 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Saffold could definitely be re-signed here. He's lost his job at both tackle positions, so if someone else offers him a large contract, it would be at guard, where he has very little experience and has only played average. Not to mention he has durability concerns.

I'm not sure who came up with the idea of him getting paid, but it looks less likely every week.


I hate when people say this, it's simply not true. He never "lost" his job. That would imply that he was benched or downgraded on the depth chart. That didn't happen...

He was moved to RT because the team felt they had a chance to get better at both OT spots by signing Long. They viewed Long as an elite LT (top five caliber straight from Fisher's mouth) and Saffold was a better fit at RT and an upgrade there. He was playing just fine at that spot until he went down with an injury...

Barksdale is playing well at RT when Saffold is ready to return. There is a hole at RG. They shift Saffold there because of his versatility. He's playing well there (far from average) and we have our 3 best O-lineman on the field at once, hence why the O-line has been continuing t trend upward over the last few weeks...

Plus, I'm not sure where you get this idea that other teams are only gonna pay him as an OG. He has quality tape at all three postions. Hell, he even stepped in and played LT last week when Long went down and did a better job on Aldon Smith than Long was before...

The fact is Saffold is an above average player at three different positions on the O-line. That has immense value to teams in the NFL. If anything these last few weeks have only increased his value...

The queston with Saffold has always been durability, not his play. He's going to draw attention from other teams...


Are you kidding me? We go out and spend big money on a new LT and move him to RT, but that doesn't count as him losing his job? Does the word "replaced" feel better to you?

Also, Saffold wasn't put in at RG until there was an injury to Dahl. Prior to that, he was splitting time with Barksdale, with Joe seeing more than him.

Call it what you want, but he was replaced at two positions.

He's injury prone and mediocre aside from that.
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kgarrett12486


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The J.R.S. wrote:
Are you kidding me? We go out and spend big money on a new LT and move him to RT, but that doesn't count as him losing his job? Does the word "replaced" feel better to you?


So if you had a hole at RT and you had a chance to bring in a LT you viewed as one of the top five in the league (which this staff has said) AND move your above average LT to RT (a better fit for him anyway) and solidify both spots you wouldn't do it too?

That is exactly what they did. They shifted him to RT and plugged in a guy they viewed as a better fit at LT. He didn't loose his job, he was still a starting RT day one. It's really that simple...

The J.R.S wrote:
Also, Saffold wasn't put in at RG until there was an injury to Dahl. Prior to that, he was splitting time with Barksdale, with Joe seeing. more than him.


You're completely disregarding the time he was out because of injury. That is the sole reason Barksdale was in there in the 1st place. He was splitting reps with Barksdale for 1 1/2 weeks while they were working him back from the injury...

The J.R.S wrote:
Call it what you want, but he was replaced at two positions.


Once again, you're disregarding the injury. That is the only reason he hasn't been at RT all year...

The J.R.S wrote:
He's injury prone and mediocre aside from that.


No one is debating that he's injury prone, he is. However, if you think he's just a mediocre player you're just flat out wrong. He's a very valuable piece no matter where he lines up...

As evidenced by his play at RG and him stepping in for Jake Long at LT last week...
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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgarrett12486 wrote:
The J.R.S. wrote:
Are you kidding me? We go out and spend big money on a new LT and move him to RT, but that doesn't count as him losing his job? Does the word "replaced" feel better to you?


So if you had a hole at RT and you had a chance to bring in a LT you viewed as one of the top five in the league (which this staff has said) AND move your above average LT to RT (a better fit for him anyway) and solidify both spots you wouldn't do it too?

That is exactly what they did. They shifted him to RT and plugged in a guy they viewed as a better fit at LT. He didn't loose his job, he was still a starting RT day one. It's really that simple...

The J.R.S wrote:
Also, Saffold wasn't put in at RG until there was an injury to Dahl. Prior to that, he was splitting time with Barksdale, with Joe seeing. more than him.


You're completely disregarding the time he was out because of injury. That is the sole reason Barksdale was in there in the 1st place. He was splitting reps with Barksdale for 1 1/2 weeks while they were working him back from the injury...

The J.R.S wrote:
Call it what you want, but he was replaced at two positions.


Once again, you're disregarding the injury. That is the only reason he hasn't been at RT all year...

The J.R.S wrote:
He's injury prone and mediocre aside from that.


No one is debating that he's injury prone, he is. However, if you think he's just a mediocre player you're just flat out wrong. He's a very valuable piece no matter where he lines up...

As evidenced by his play at RG and him stepping in for Jake Long at LT last week...


We're really just arguing semantics here, but what else do we have to do?

We agree that he is versatile, and we also agree he is injury prone. I just don't see him getting the a bigger contract elsewhere than what we would be willing to spend on him as our starting guard.

At the end of the day, you think he is a better tackle than I do. Time will tell I suppose.
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jjab360


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand everyone acting like Evans isn't worth a top 10 pick. Am I missing something here? Ridiculously powerful, crazy strong hands, elite body control and jump ball ability.. The only negative to his game is that he doesn't have elite speed, but receivers like Fitzgerald, B. Marsh, Boldin, D. Bryant, A. Jeffery, and countless others have proven that you don't need elite speed when you have the rest of the package. And Evans undeniably has the rest of the package.
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
I don't understand everyone acting like Evans isn't worth a top 10 pick. Am I missing something here? Ridiculously powerful, crazy strong hands, elite body control and jump ball ability.. The only negative to his game is that he doesn't have elite speed, but receivers like Fitzgerald, B. Marsh, Boldin, D. Bryant, A. Jeffery, and countless others have proven that you don't need elite speed when you have the rest of the package. And Evans undeniably has the rest of the package.


And just like everything else, you wouldnt expect him to be a good run blocker, but he finds a way to be a beast in that area as well.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holt_bruce81 wrote:
Jrry, always love reading your mocks, I think your one of the more knowledgeable posters on here, I like it for the most part. I'm not going to even pretend I've seen some of these guys in action.

If we go Corner in the 2nd round, I want EJ Gaines. But I'm sure this forum having a high percentage of Mizzou fans on it, that topic will be beat to death over the next few months.

Also, I need someone to sell me on David Fales. I realize you have him being selected as a backup, but I just don't see why we would take him over say some of the other QBs that might be on the board. Seems like he can throw a good 5 yard pass.


He's great value at that point. You're essentially getting the same skill-set that AJ McCarron offers but 2 rounds later. And you're getting a guy that's more battle tested in terms of not having great protection and a strong running game.

Why do I like Fales? Despite his arm strength limitations, he's mobile and very cerebral. He has a quick release and is fairly technically sound(polished for a college QB). On top of that, the guy throws WRs open. He understands how to utilize the back-shoulder throw, he anticipates his receivers and throws it before they break and he is very smart about throwing the ball with such great timing that it gets there before the CB is able to locate it.

Aside from his arm strength, he has a really well developed and talented skill-set. If he had Sam's arm, he'd be a top 10 pick. That's the only glaring issue in his skill-set. He's just advanced mentally. And that's why I like him. He seems like a guy who would have no issues stepping in when needed and managing the game effectively.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
I don't understand everyone acting like Evans isn't worth a top 10 pick. Am I missing something here? Ridiculously powerful, crazy strong hands, elite body control and jump ball ability.. The only negative to his game is that he doesn't have elite speed, but receivers like Fitzgerald, B. Marsh, Boldin, D. Bryant, A. Jeffery, and countless others have proven that you don't need elite speed when you have the rest of the package. And Evans undeniably has the rest of the package.


Seriously. I don't know about you guys but I would love having a WR that could do this sort of stuff for Sam:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000291457/QB-McCown-to-WR-Jeffery-46-yd-pass-TD
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000276899/Jeffery-6-yard-touchdown
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000252298/Alshon-Jeffery-14-yard-TD-catch
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000252195/Alshon-Jeffery-44-yard-leaping-catch

I think that would make a world of difference if Sam had a reliable WR that he knew he could just throw it up to or trust to make that difficult catch in traffic. On top of that, we can actually have a big WR we trust to convert that slant route in short yardage situations...Quick gets dropsies sometimes and Givens gets alligator arms.
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FRO


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick despite his size and athletic ability struggles with 50/50 balls. Evans is a guy who will, like Bolden, catch pass even when covered.

For me Watkins or Evans are a must.
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DEE RAWL


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FRO wrote:
Quick despite his size and athletic ability struggles with 50/50 balls. Evans is a guy who will, like Bolden, catch pass even when covered.

For me Watkins or Evans are a must.


You can put Lee on that list too, although I havent seen Watkins make too many contested catches (not saying he cant). And while I praise Lee, I am not saying he is worth a top 10 pick like Evans is, mostly because of his knee, its not a serious injury, but whatever its been it has held him back this year along with his quarterback obviously. As big a fan of Lee as I am, I still would take Evans over Lee for us everytime.
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ramssuperbowl99


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
I don't understand everyone acting like Evans isn't worth a top 10 pick. Am I missing something here? Ridiculously powerful, crazy strong hands, elite body control and jump ball ability.. The only negative to his game is that he doesn't have elite speed, but receivers like Fitzgerald, B. Marsh, Boldin, D. Bryant, A. Jeffery, and countless others have proven that you don't need elite speed when you have the rest of the package. And Evans undeniably has the rest of the package.


Seriously. I don't know about you guys but I would love having a WR that could do this sort of stuff for Sam:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000291457/QB-McCown-to-WR-Jeffery-46-yd-pass-TD
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000276899/Jeffery-6-yard-touchdown
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000252298/Alshon-Jeffery-14-yard-TD-catch
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000252195/Alshon-Jeffery-44-yard-leaping-catch

I think that would make a world of difference if Sam had a reliable WR that he knew he could just throw it up to or trust to make that difficult catch in traffic. On top of that, we can actually have a big WR we trust to convert that slant route in short yardage situations...Quick gets dropsies sometimes and Givens gets alligator arms.
To add to this, one of Sam's biggest weaknesses is lack of confidence to throw the ball into tighter windows/jump ball situations. Mike Evans is a tailor-made antidote to that problem, and a great compliment to the other skill positions we've got. True X to go with Cook at the Y and Austin at the Z.
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