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2014 Non-QB Prospect Thread
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younggun1273


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 7210
Location: Tempe
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
I'm starting to get a feeling that Tyrann Mathieu is vastly overrated


I would just say that he is a rookie making rookie mistakes. He may have been rushed into the starting lineup a bit soon, but it is not like there is a better option on the bench. He needs the reps and the experience to get better while he learns a new position. He is a really good tackler, but his coverage skills leaves a lot to be desired so far.
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LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 4914
Location: Nebraska
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

younggun1273 wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
I'm starting to get a feeling that Tyrann Mathieu is vastly overrated


I would just say that he is a rookie making rookie mistakes. He may have been rushed into the starting lineup a bit soon, but it is not like there is a better option on the bench. He needs the reps and the experience to get better while he learns a new position. He is a really good tackler, but his coverage skills leaves a lot to be desired so far.


Normally when I say overrated I more am talking about the feeling of the common fan. I don't feel as though any of us are overrating him because we have the knowledge of his weaknesses and we don't overrate him.
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mtdowner


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 989
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LuckyNumber11 wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
LuckyNumber11 wrote:
I'm starting to get a feeling that Tyrann Mathieu is vastly overrated


I would just say that he is a rookie making rookie mistakes. He may have been rushed into the starting lineup a bit soon, but it is not like there is a better option on the bench. He needs the reps and the experience to get better while he learns a new position. He is a really good tackler, but his coverage skills leaves a lot to be desired so far.


Normally when I say overrated I more am talking about the feeling of the common fan. I don't feel as though any of us are overrating him because we have the knowledge of his weaknesses and we don't overrate him.


That hit on that WR screen though Shocked
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Boise&cards Fan


Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 3118
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He will never have the size to cover a good TE and a good pass thrown to a TE. His coverage skill were never what made him great. Even in college he was beat from time to time. What made him good was his talent to make big plays. Arizona going to have to live with the fact for every big play he makes he most likely going to give up a big play also
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mtdowner


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boise&cards Fan wrote:
He will never have the size to cover a good TE and a good pass thrown to a TE. His coverage skill were never what made him great. Even in college he was beat from time to time. What made him good was his talent to make big plays. Arizona going to have to live with the fact for every big play he makes he most likely going to give up a big play also


The thing is the big plays haven't really been happening lately. We're gonna need some more turnovers from him in order to start forgetting about his poor job in coverage.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 5066
Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all realise he is a rookie who has played 13 games right?

He will make mistakes, just that our level of tolerance is lower for him due to the success he had earlier this season.

We need to scheme better and address this issue in the offseason
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LuckyNumber11


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 4914
Location: Nebraska
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ_Fka wrote:
You all realise he is a rookie who has played 13 games right?

He will make mistakes, just that our level of tolerance is lower for him due to the success he had earlier this season.

We need to scheme better and address this issue in the offseason


This is true, and it's just a publicity factor he gets for being, him.
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 433
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - I think scheme should definitely be part of dealing with this problem - even if we make a personnel change at SS and the new guy can cover TE's.

Last night the Seahawks had KJ Wright, a linebacker, shadow Jimmy Graham. The results were pretty darn good against arguably the best TE in the league - 3 catches on 9 targets for 42 yards and a touchdown. Now granted, part of that was the pass rush, but it's still impressive. I can't see a reason why DWash - with his strength and speed - can't have games like that coverage as well - if I had access to some of his tape I'd like to do further analysis on his coverage abilities, but unfortunately I don't Razz .
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 433
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh - and the Honey Badger was lousy in coverage in college as well - that was a big part of why he dropped in the draft (wasn't just the off field issues). Overall I like what I've seen from him as a rookie - but I don't think there's any doubt we need to use scheme and surrounding him with particular personnel in order to cover up his coverage flaws.

Also, someone needs to slap BA and tell him Tyrann needs to be the punt returner immediately - PP21 isn't getting it done right now.
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khodder


Moderator - MVP
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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Location: New New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not like Mathieu has been awful either, he has made some good plays in coverage and has tended to play a reasonable standard of football in coverage.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 4221
Location: PA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody seems to be putting it in their mocks but I think the Cards could go receiver at some point. Even if Roberts stays, BA wants that deep threat we don't consistently have. Keim has brought in multiple guys to try and fill that void (Robert Gill, Teddy Williams, Brittan Golden) but they can't seem to stay healthy. I think a Day 3 pick would be a real possibility. With that in mind, here are some guys we could get on Day 3:

Robert Herron Wyoming 3rd-4th round: 4.38
L'Damien Washington Missouri 4th-5th round: 4.39
Tevin Reese Baylor 5th round: 4.38
Paul Richardson Colorado 2nd-3rd round: 4.48
Jalen Saunders Oklahoma 4th round: 4.49

The projections and 40 times are estimates from nfldraftscout.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right Apollo

Slot receiver to play 3 or 4 wr spots

Some players could fall this year, even 3rd round wouldn't be too nad
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFT has Mathieu rated as the 2nd best CB in the league, even higher than Peterson. Can't believe people give that site money. Laughing
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
PFT has Mathieu rated as the 2nd best CB in the league, even higher than Peterson. Can't believe people give that site money. Laughing


I look at that sight to see how the offensive linemen did but I don't trust their other stats.

Mathieu obviously has his flaws but definitely has a place on this defense. We just need more guys that can simply stick with their man. All this hype over Mathieu made me wonder something.

Could Mathieu and Lamarcus Joyner (2 similar players) play on the field at the same time? I'm talking base 3-4 defense with two CBs and two Safeties. I love Joyner as a prospect but that's a really short secondary and that could make our lackluster coverage of TEs even worse. We do have a resident Seminole fan here. Can Joyner hold up in man coverage as an outside CB?
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
PFT has Mathieu rated as the 2nd best CB in the league, even higher than Peterson. Can't believe people give that site money. Laughing


I look at that sight to see how the offensive linemen did but I don't trust their other stats.

Mathieu obviously has his flaws but definitely has a place on this defense. We just need more guys that can simply stick with their man. All this hype over Mathieu made me wonder something.

Could Mathieu and Lamarcus Joyner (2 similar players) play on the field at the same time? I'm talking base 3-4 defense with two CBs and two Safeties. I love Joyner as a prospect but that's a really short secondary and that could make our lackluster coverage of TEs even worse. We do have a resident Seminole fan here. Can Joyner hold up in man coverage as an outside CB?


Oh hell yeah they can

They play different spots and are thing diff except size

Joyner played safety first 3 years was good but not great, moved to nickel this year as noles run 335 most if time, absolutely dominated

He causes turnovers, blitzes really well and tackles everything, he could be second corner or nickel for sure

Bowles would have a field day with him, actually I would love to see him in a Rex Ryan D
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