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2nd Half Time of Possession
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AZ_Eaglesfan


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 5472
Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poloc2289 wrote:
Vindicatedxx wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Poloc2289 wrote:
So the Eagles have gone into the second half with a lead 6 of their 12 games. That's about 50% with my calculations.

Anyway those games are the most important to look at because those specific samples would highlight a need to "run the clock" and play with a lead. Including all 12 games though, the Eagles are being outscored 140-162 (not that big a deal considering the Denver game where they were outscored 7-31 in the 2nd half)

With the lead in those 6 games, the Eagles are outscoring their opponents only 69-67 in the second half. This is a bit of a troubling statistic because it elucidates the Eagles inability to close games.

Huh? Wouldn't an inability to close games be seen by losing close games? I don't see the real issue at this point. We haven't lost a game recently, and we are nit picking about how we are winning them Confused

Idk, maybe its just me, but I am not worried at all. In fact, I am ecstatic. I never thought in a million years this team would be even half this good.


Exactly...Bend but dont break.


I hate how fans can have unwavering support of a defense labeled as so.
As if a good defense is one that lets the offense march down and holds them to field goals or turnovers. Scoring gets tougher in the red zone because of the shortened field. I'm not willing to give the defense so much credit.

There are clear deficiencies in this defense that could just as easily make it a break defense next week. Chung has been horrible in every facet. Nate Allen is still poor in run support. The defensive line plays really well but sometimes the linebackers are out of position allowing for the big run.

I don't like "bend but don't break" defenses.
A few calls go the other way today and we're talking about how this defense broke (with a lot of help from the offense).

::EDIT::
I don't mean to say at all the defense isn't good. They are and deserve considerable credit.
But to praise a defense for being "bend don't break" seems asinine to me.

To me, the only way you can play defense in the NFL today is with a "bend don't break" mentality. You aren't going to shut down a good offense at this level, it just won't happen. A great example of that is the Cards D against our O today. That D is top 3 in the NFL, but we still put up 24 points on them.

If you want to have a successful defense in today's NFL, you have to have a different mindset IMO. The days where your stud D shuts everyone down all year is over. The best you can hope for is a D that doesn't give up big plays(we don't), turns the ball over(we do that), and doesn't give up TD's in the red zone(we do that too!)

Asking for anymore is asking for too much IMO. You aren't going to hold most offenses under 300 yards, it just won't happen.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vindicatedxx wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Poloc2289 wrote:
So the Eagles have gone into the second half with a lead 6 of their 12 games. That's about 50% with my calculations.

Anyway those games are the most important to look at because those specific samples would highlight a need to "run the clock" and play with a lead. Including all 12 games though, the Eagles are being outscored 140-162 (not that big a deal considering the Denver game where they were outscored 7-31 in the 2nd half)

With the lead in those 6 games, the Eagles are outscoring their opponents only 69-67 in the second half. This is a bit of a troubling statistic because it elucidates the Eagles inability to close games.

Huh? Wouldn't an inability to close games be seen by losing close games? I don't see the real issue at this point. We haven't lost a game recently, and we are nit picking about how we are winning them Confused

Idk, maybe its just me, but I am not worried at all. In fact, I am ecstatic. I never thought in a million years this team would be even half this good.


Exactly...Bend but dont break.


That's all well and fine right now but in the playoffs, that won't fly. Against better teams if you have a 21 pt lead you don't take your foot off the gas, you step on their throats. You don't go into prevent offense mode (what they are currently doing) in the second half. You guys can pretend all you want time of possesion doesn't matter but give the Saints , Patriots or Broncos 40 minutes on offense and tell me this defense holds them under 21?

As the season goes on these players on defense will wear down. It's a fact because of the amount of time they are being asked to play. When you continually go 3 and out on offense for the majority of 2nd 1/2 its no surprise that coincidently the defense starts to struggle. You call it not picking I and others call it a fundamental flaw that will prevent this team from any kind of post season run! My complaint is on how the offense is being utilized ,not defense. If its not fixed what's the point?
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poloc2289 wrote:
I don't like "bend but don't break" defenses.
A few calls go the other way today and we're talking about how this defense broke (with a lot of help from the offense).

::EDIT::
I don't mean to say at all the defense isn't good. They are and deserve considerable credit.
But to praise a defense for being "bend don't break" seems asinine to me.


I'll jump on tho this a little bit. Our defense has improved significantly sine week 1 but I still think theyre a middle of the pack defense. This "bend but don't break" philosphy has given up the 16th most points per game despite giving up the 2nd most yards per game in the league. The defense has made some timely plays and got some fortunate penalties (or lack or penalties) in very key moments, plays like Boykins INT to close out the Washington game comes to mind.

I think people just forget what a defense that can get a 3 and out looks like so they're getting more comfortable with timely mediocrity. This secondary needs to be fixed and we need to add to our pass rush.
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Asking for anymore is asking for too much IMO. You aren't going to hold most offenses under 300 yards, it just won't happen.


Under 300 is a lofty expectation that would make us a top 3 defense. Under 400 shouldn't be too hard to do though right?
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Poloc2289 wrote:
I don't like "bend but don't break" defenses.
A few calls go the other way today and we're talking about how this defense broke (with a lot of help from the offense).

::EDIT::
I don't mean to say at all the defense isn't good. They are and deserve considerable credit.
But to praise a defense for being "bend don't break" seems asinine to me.


I'll jump on tho this a little bit. Our defense has improved significantly sine week 1 but I still think theyre a middle of the pack defense. This "bend but don't break" philosphy has given up the 16th most points per game despite giving up the 2nd most yards per game in the league. The defense has made some timely plays and got some fortunate penalties (or lack or penalties) in very key moments, plays like Boykins INT to close out the Washington game comes to mind.

I think people just forget what a defense that can get a 3 and out looks like so they're getting more comfortable with timely mediocrity. This secondary needs to be fixed and we need to add to our pass rush.

Is it possible that the Secondary is playing within the scheme and that's the reason why they allow so many yards?
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Hockey5djh


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Is it possible that the Secondary is playing within the scheme and that's the reason why they allow so many yards?


Its possible but a scheme that plans to allow 400+ yards a game is very poor plan. I personally think the Eagles have been lucky so far this season and should make big steps next season when more talent is added to the defense.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think "bend but don't break" is a catchy little catchphrase we can throw around, but not something that is by design or on purpose. I mean, what the heck does that even mean? What kind of defense schematically allows the ball to be moved but somehow decides not to allow opposing teams to score (which they do anyways...). If you're playing defense you want to get off the field as soon as possible and get your offense on the field again. By schematically allowing yards you're putting teams in scoring position and keeping your own offense off the field. It makes no sense.

We use "bend don't break" as a way to describe sucky teams doing too little too late against us, usually when we get a big early lead.

You either execute or you don't, for some reason, teams are gaining momentum in the 2nd half and we seem to lose it completely. Why is this? Could this just be a mental thing? We don't really have the killer-instinct guys on this team who are also leaders.

Opposing teams go into desperation mode in the 3rd quarter and our team doesn't seem to be able to sense blood in the water. We look like a completely different team. I think when you allow Carson Palmer's offense to triple their total points in the 2nd half that is by definition a defense that is already breaking.

The last time our offense scored in the 4th quarter was October 27th.
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Poloc2289


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
I think "bend but don't break" is a catchy little catchphrase we can throw around, but not something that is by design or on purpose. I mean, what the heck does that even mean? What kind of defense schematically allows the ball to be moved but somehow decides not to allow opposing teams to score (which they do anyways...). If you're playing defense you want to get off the field as soon as possible and get your offense on the field again. By schematically allowing yards you're putting teams in scoring position and keeping your own offense off the field. It makes no sense.

We use "bend don't break" as a way to describe sucky teams doing too little too late against us, usually when we get a big early lead.

You either execute or you don't, for some reason, teams are gaining momentum in the 2nd half and we seem to lose it completely. Why is this? Could this just be a mental thing? We don't really have the killer-instinct guys on this team who are also leaders.

Opposing teams go into desperation mode in the 3rd quarter and our team doesn't seem to be able to sense blood in the water. We look like a completely different team. I think when you allow Carson Palmer's offense to triple their total points in the 2nd half that is by definition a defense that is already breaking.

The last time our offense scored in the 4th quarter was October 27th.


This encapsulates the ridiculous allegiance to a "bend but don't break" defense and our 2nd half woes.

I knew you were a moderator for a reason Phire
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "Bend but don't break" is a simple way of saying that we're willing to give up yards, but we hold them to FGs and force TOs. Which we for the most part have done the past 8 weeks.

I think Chip/Offense have to be better at balancing controlling the game and closing it out. I think a big part of our offensive success is the pace when we really get rolling, but we slow down when we have big leads, which makes sense, but I would prefer that we kept going. People chalk that up as "we play not to lose" or "prevent".
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
The "Bend but don't break" is a simple way of saying that we're willing to give up yards, but we hold them to FGs and force TOs. Which we for the most part have done the past 8 weeks.

I think Chip/Offense have to be better at balancing controlling the game and closing it out. I think a big part of our offensive success is the pace when we really get rolling, but we slow down when we have big leads, which makes sense, but I would prefer that we kept going. People chalk that up as "we play not to lose" or "prevent".

So if our offense scores 24 points and Carson Palmer puts up 21, it's considered bend don't break.
But if our offense puts up 20 points and Carson Palmer gets the same points/yards, we wouldn't say it's bend don't break, right?

Bend don't break is just a fancy way to say the opposing offense did too little too late. I don't think any defense is willing to give up yards.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
The "Bend but don't break" is a simple way of saying that we're willing to give up yards, but we hold them to FGs and force TOs. Which we for the most part have done the past 8 weeks.

I think Chip/Offense have to be better at balancing controlling the game and closing it out. I think a big part of our offensive success is the pace when we really get rolling, but we slow down when we have big leads, which makes sense, but I would prefer that we kept going. People chalk that up as "we play not to lose" or "prevent".

So if our offense scores 24 points and Carson Palmer puts up 21, it's considered bend don't break.
But if our offense puts up 20 points and Carson Palmer gets the same points/yards, we wouldn't say it's bend don't break, right?

Bend don't break is just a fancy way to say the opposing offense did too little too late. I don't think any defense is willing to give up yards.

The Eagles obviously care about yards, but it's more important not to get beaten deep than allowing a 12 yard completion
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Poloc2289


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Phire wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
The "Bend but don't break" is a simple way of saying that we're willing to give up yards, but we hold them to FGs and force TOs. Which we for the most part have done the past 8 weeks.

I think Chip/Offense have to be better at balancing controlling the game and closing it out. I think a big part of our offensive success is the pace when we really get rolling, but we slow down when we have big leads, which makes sense, but I would prefer that we kept going. People chalk that up as "we play not to lose" or "prevent".

So if our offense scores 24 points and Carson Palmer puts up 21, it's considered bend don't break.
But if our offense puts up 20 points and Carson Palmer gets the same points/yards, we wouldn't say it's bend don't break, right?

Bend don't break is just a fancy way to say the opposing offense did too little too late. I don't think any defense is willing to give up yards.

The Eagles obviously care about yards, but it's more important not to get beaten deep than allowing a 12 yard completion


Obviously, but that 12 yard completion turns into a 1st down. Enough of those and you're at the goal line ready to score a touchdown.

Never is it ok to play a prevent defense.
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