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GDT: Chargers @ Chiefs (Week 12)
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:

As for running the ball just to burn time.. we were TRAILING and a score is not some guarantee. Chargers aren't for certain calling time out with us trailing/them LEADING still even if we do run the ball so trying to get them to use time outs seems pretty doubtful. It would have burned clock.. and it would have burned a down. We needed to score so I'm not throwing away any downs!


Running the ball with Jamaal Charles is not even remotely close to "throwing away" a down.


Fair point.. but people said it with wanting to just keep the clock going. If we score on the run play what changes? Maybe poorly worded in my quote above but I just didn't want to run the ball just to burn clock.


if you score on a run play, the outcome is more acceptable. At least you did the right thing. To lose like this is beyond stupid. We had OT GUARANTEED even if we didn't get in. Succop ain't missing no 25 yarder. We chose the option that gave the OTHER TEAM their BEST chance of winning. SD had to WANT incompletions. We gave them a great chance at that. That throw was forced and Bowe made an AMAZING catch or we're at 2nd and goal from the 5, they STILL have 2 TOs and we ran 5 seconds off the clock. There is honestly no defending choosing to call a pass in that scenario. None. You have JAMAAL FREAKING CHARLES. Give it to him 3 times use up all the time, if he doesn't get in, let's go to OT. It really was that simple.
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Habsawce


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, I don't think anyone has eve accused Andy Reid of being a good clock manager.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Habsawce wrote:
To be fair, I don't think anyone has eve accused Andy Reid of being a good clock manager.


No. It was one of his known flaws as a coach. That and his tendency towards offensive one-dimensionality, both of which have rung true thus far.

I think, personally, we need a more assertive offensive coordinator.
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
samsel23 wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
ryknowssd wrote:
Diesel2692 wrote:
why in the world did we call a timeout there???


Andy wanted to see what personnel they had on the field, then he called a timeout to switch the play. I think he should've said until the play clock counted down a bit more, but whatevs.


this whatevs right here cost us the game. Absolutely no reason to give them the ball with any time left unless we ran the ball in on 1st down. We had 3 TOs, and a guaranteed FG to tie the game even if we didn't score. You have to force them to call their TOs.


Yup told my friends if we don't run in after that TO we're going to lose.


You leave Rivers 1:30 with 2 timeouts, without our 2 pass rushers. Got to be smarter than that. I mean it's not like JC was ineffective. Run the damn ball, worst you can do is force SD to call timeouts and tie it up.


We do that and we're in the drivers seat for Home Field. Which is KEY to our playoff success!


I wish he'd have let the clock run down before the time out for sure.. but that was only 16 seconds! So that little mistake doesn't for certain change the outcome. Chargers snapped their TD play at 31 seconds left.

As for running the ball just to burn time.. we were TRAILING and a score is not some guarantee. Chargers aren't for certain calling time out with us trailing/them LEADING still even if we do run the ball so trying to get them to use time outs seems pretty doubtful. It would have burned clock.. and it would have burned a down. We needed to score so I'm not throwing away any downs!

This loss is on the defense. If folks wanna include Sutton in that a bit, fine. Reid though.. for the time out... no, just no. The defense failed when they allowed a 60 yard TD with FORTY of it after the catch! The defense failed when Demps took a crap angle on his deep help for Smith and completely took himself out of the play to allow a game winning TD. Credit Rivers too.. cause even with Demps mistake Smith had solid coverage.. that was a great throw!

We've seen it on a number of deep throws this year and it needs to be addressed. Safety play over the top has been a problem all year.

That all said it was great to see the offense and Alex match Rivers in a shootout. I know some have lacked confidence (radio, here, or on AP) in Alex's ability to do that but he clearly had before (playoffs against Brees) and you could tell the offense was getting close to turning the corner (all the drops and execution mistakes) and carrying their side of the weight.

This team (with Hali and Houston back) will be a tough matchup for anyone!

With Denver losing.. we are still in control of our season. Beat Denver!


The D was terrible yesterday no doubt about it, but the way the game played out, calling a TO AND throwing the ball is stupid. We had 3 downs, 3 TOs from the 5 yards line and JC had been running better than any other game this year at that point. Throwing the ball was stupid. Throwing the ball risked an INT, and incompletion, and if we were successfull then they get both their TOs and 1:20 on the clock. The way our defense played and the fact that both of our stud pass rushers out dictates that situational awareness tells you to run the ball on first down. You get in, great, but if you don't, you run off all that clock or force them to call a TO, and if they call even 1 TO then they don't have the tone they used on the Berry sack, how much difference does that 15 seconds make then? Any way you look at it, calling a TO with 15 seconds left on the play clock, and then choosing to throw the ball both cost us the game. Yes, the D SHOULD have held, but they hadn't been doing their job all game and our 2 best players for that situation couldn't even play. This loss is 100% on Andy Reid for his handling of the clock in that situation.



Agree 100%
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly I'm quite alone in siding with Andy here but that's ok. Some things I disagree with mentioned in the counter arguments..

The preferring of clock killing and overtime to 4 point lead and 80ish seconds of defense at home.

The assumption that a FG was for sure

The assumption that in tight like we were (1st and goal from the 5) we score on the ground for sure after last weeks failure on 3 straight runs from the 1 yard line.

I feel like if we didn't score.. went to OT.. and lost then everyone would be saying how the hell could we settle for a FG there with a chance to win the game. Win it or lose it on 4 downs from the 5 and screw OT! Ya know what though.. I'd actually be fine with that too. The difference for me vs others here is my mindset was SCORE! I don't care what down.. I don't care the time.. and I refuse to get cute with burning time and assume we get in or we just go win it in OT!

DO WHATEVER BEST PLAY YOU CAN AND SCORE!

GET THE LEAD!

To me that was priority numero uno! Then we'll deal with whatever time/situation is left. Just assuming a FG is a sure things is crazy IMO too! Was it for sure against Oakland in 2011 Christmas eve?? Oh that's right.. it wasn't! It was blocked.. twice! And then we LOST in OT at home and lost the division as well.

JUST SCORE!!!! That was my absolute mindset! C'mon Alex.. get them in!

Let's remember something else here.. the PREVIOUS POSSESSION for the Chargers... we forced a PUNT! We had a chance to take the lead on that drive because we had just played DEFENSE!

I just think folks are looking for ONE reason to blame the loss.. here.. here's one reason...

Phillip Rivers is really good! He made a pin point throw and exploited a coverage mistake (Demps) and fit a ball into a sweet window just beyond Sean Smith's hands.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is giving the ball to our best player on 1st and goal from the 5, which guarantees that we either score, the clock runs 40 seconds (then we would have had 50 seconds, 2nd down and 2 TOs (time not a factor for us still) not the right thing to do? It isn't giving up, it isn't wasting a down, it's giving the ball to our best player who at that time was having his best game running the football as he's had all year. Andy has no defense in this situation. He actually said that he wanted as much time as possible to score!!! That is beyond stupid. We had 3 time outs. Time wasn't a factor in scoring for us and he acted like it was. It cost us the game, end of story.


When was the last time an NFL kicker missed inside 30 yards, arrowhead? Tynes in the playoff game is the last I can remember.


You also have to be aware that our defense isn't going to be the same without Hali and Houston, and you have to not even give Rivers a chance if at all possible.

How can you assume the way our offense played the whole 2nd half, plus the way we were running that we wouldn't get in on 3 plays? I think there's a good chance that we score running on 1st down, and had that happened I could have lived with losing because at least we did the right thing, but we didn't, and it may cost us the division. This decision wasn't trivial, let me repeat: IT MAY COST US THE DIVISION.


Arrowhead, you may have not been concerned about time, obviously Andy wasn't, but you should have, and he should have. It makes the difference between winning and losing sometimes. You can't in hindsight say that well we shouldn't have allowed so many points on D yada yada yada. The way the game played out you have to run the clock down farther in that situation. end of story, really no defending it.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You can't in hindsight say that well we shouldn't have allowed so many points on D yada yada yada. The way the game played out you have to run the clock down farther in that situation. end of story, really no defending it.


But you CAN say in hindsight that we shouldn't have left so much time because they eventually scored with it? How is that fair?

Regarding your "best player argument". I'm not arguing right thing to do wrong thing to do with the play call really. My point is truly I don't care how they scored, just SCORE! That was job #1 above every single other consideration. We were trailing.. SCORE!

If they had handed it to Charles and he rumbles in for a TD.. great! My only point about this HINDSIGHT argument is you or others saying these things are a given. That we WILL score or we WILL just kick a FG and we WILL go to OT. Last week in Denver.. we didnt score! Two years ago against Oakland.. the field goal got blocked TWICE. These things happen. It doesn't matter how rare or often. I could argue it could and should be rare that we lose to a complete no name WR on a diving catch with 24 seconds to go after they drive nearly 80 yards.

Here... lets just say it all works out the way you've described as doing it the RIGHT way and we DO go to OT.. and then SD gets the ball first and marches and scores a TD anyway! As you already stated you'd be fine with it because at least we played it out correctly. Cause you'd be fine with the choices made. Really? You don't think you or anyone would be saying "what was that conservative crap? Alex Smith is throwing at will today and Andy doesn't at least TRY and throw the ball at all?"

Really? Maybe you wouldn't be.. but tell me there wouldn't be a whole other group on the radio, or here, or AP, or wherever.. second guessing and calling Andy too conservative now! He's damned no matter what happens by some group simply because it didn't work out! Simply because we lost.

See... my point here overall is THEY BEAT US.. the CHARGERS. They executed their final drive better than we executed on defense. Why do we need one villain in each and every loss to point our fingers at?

I'm gonna say it again cause you didn't comment on it in your last post. We are ONLY in position to go for the TD to take the LEAD because the DEFENSE you don't want to trust to even TRY and defend 80 yards at home with a lead.. had just FORCED A PUNT to get us the ball back!

Trailing and under the 2 minute warning.. well under for that matter. First and goal from the 5 yard line. They had one job before ANYTHING ELSE matters in this lone fans opinion..

SCORE!!!!!!
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous drive that resulted in a field goal I did not like the play calling.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, for the game, 38 passes to 18 runs. I'm not talking just the last drive, but our last 3 where we didn't run enough. IIRC we gave them the ball 3 times with less than 10min on the play clock. Just one extra run per drive would have probably not given them enough time to make that last score, and this was in a game where we were consistently getting 5-6 YPC.

You can almost never boil a loss down to just one play or series of plays, but rather on a broader evaluation. All things considered, the mistake was the run pass balance in the 4th quarter, magnified by the same failure on the last set of plays.

And of course 3 more run plays would not guarantee us a victory, but it would have increased our chances greatly. You know AH86, "throw to score, run to win." Wink
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Again, for the game, 38 passes to 18 runs.


Jesus, and didn't Andy just say after the Denver game that he feels like our team is best at a 50/50 run/pass split?

Though I don't think our offense was the problem it all, I think most of the problems this game were on the defensive end of the ball.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you seriously talking about blocked FGs on what amounts to an extra point? The blocked FGs in Oakland have no bearing on Succop making an extra point. Give me a break, man. I still love Andy, but this decision is not defendable. You can't even really say that a pass is our best play in that scenario (regardless of the fact that Bowe made an amazing catch). Jamaal Charles is by far our best player. I'd say you generally want him getting the ball on most 1st and goals from the 5.

Do you really think that giving the ball to Jamaal 3 times considering how we ran all 2nd half that he wouldn't get in?

Also, nobody is handcuffing 3 runs in, once you run on 1st, you run off 40 and you're at 40ish seconds on the clock. That is a MAJOR MAJOR difference for them, and we still have at least one TO and 2 downs to play with which you can then choose to throw on, again, IF you don't get in on the first play (which I honestly think is very likely)

I won't be responding again on this topic, not because I don't like what you have to say or because I'm exasperated or anything, but because I feel that my stance is clear and it doesn't need to be bothered repeating again. Let's go beat Denver.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys were well informed from Eagle fans about his tendencies to air it out when he has one of the best RBs in the league. Laughing I do not understand it whatsoever.
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