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Countdown to 1,000 - Cecil Shorts III Edition
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Jags wrote:
iPwn wrote:
sadjag wrote:
We haven't had a 1000 yard receiver since jimmy right? I really wish Justin hadn't got suspended we could of had 2 this year.
Correct. And I believe the closest we've gotten was Shorts and Blackmon last year.


Where is Dunta Robinson to talk trash now?


what did dunta say?
Two years ago, after we got blown out by the Falcons, he ran his mouth about how we had the worst receiving corps he had ever seen, threw some expletives in there and was a completely sore winner.
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Jags


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Jags wrote:
iPwn wrote:
sadjag wrote:
We haven't had a 1000 yard receiver since jimmy right? I really wish Justin hadn't got suspended we could of had 2 this year.
Correct. And I believe the closest we've gotten was Shorts and Blackmon last year.


Where is Dunta Robinson to talk trash now?


what did dunta say?
Two years ago, after we got blown out by the Falcons, he ran his mouth about how we had the worst receiving corps he had ever seen, threw some expletives in there and was a completely sore winner.


This is the exact article:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/33905991
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cecil has been pretty upset and fiery about the response some people (read: supposed fans) are treating him because he got injured and hurt their fantasy football teams. He needs to calm down some, but also if he takes this frustration and channels it into how he plays on the field, NFL secondaries better be really worried, because he's going to start playing with a huge mean streak.
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green24


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Cecil has been pretty upset and fiery about the response some people (read: supposed fans) are treating him because he got injured and hurt their fantasy football teams. He needs to calm down some, but also if he takes this frustration and channels it into how he plays on the field, NFL secondaries better be really worried, because he's going to start playing with a huge mean streak.

Where?

I saw him talking to Jets CB Darrin Walls on twitter. I think they're friends.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Cecil has been pretty upset and fiery about the response some people (read: supposed fans) are treating him because he got injured and hurt their fantasy football teams. He needs to calm down some, but also if he takes this frustration and channels it into how he plays on the field, NFL secondaries better be really worried, because he's going to start playing with a huge mean streak.


lol @ people who care that much about fantasy football. and lol @ caring about what those people have to say.


But all loling aside, i'm not entirely sure Shorts III playing with a huge 'mean streak' is something that would make him particularly more successful. With all due respect to the guy, he's a great tactician type receiver, but from what i've seen, he doesn't exactly have the imposing physical stature or durability to 'play angry' all the time. His edge seems to be in just straight up outmanoeuvring opponents. Though i guess in terms of just outfighting guys for the ball and such, that fire may come in handy. He's already so good at it though.

Interesting stuff in any event though.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Cecil has been pretty upset and fiery about the response some people (read: supposed fans) are treating him because he got injured and hurt their fantasy football teams. He needs to calm down some, but also if he takes this frustration and channels it into how he plays on the field, NFL secondaries better be really worried, because he's going to start playing with a huge mean streak.

Where?

I saw him talking to Jets CB Darrin Walls on twitter. I think they're friends.
https://twitter.com/CecilShortsIII/status/389849554902081536

He also cussed out someone on Instagram and told them if they really wanted to keep running their mouth, they could meet him at the stadium.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Cecil has been pretty upset and fiery about the response some people (read: supposed fans) are treating him because he got injured and hurt their fantasy football teams. He needs to calm down some, but also if he takes this frustration and channels it into how he plays on the field, NFL secondaries better be really worried, because he's going to start playing with a huge mean streak.


lol @ people who care that much about fantasy football. and lol @ caring about what those people have to say.


But all loling aside, i'm not entirely sure Shorts III playing with a huge 'mean streak' is something that would make him particularly more successful. With all due respect to the guy, he's a great tactician type receiver, but from what i've seen, he doesn't exactly have the imposing physical stature or durability to 'play angry' all the time. His edge seems to be in just straight up outmanoeuvring opponents. Though i guess in terms of just outfighting guys for the ball and such, that fire may come in handy. He's already so good at it though.

Interesting stuff in any event though.
He bulked up this offseason and is playing more physically from what I noticed.

I think he's frustrated with the Quarterback situation (and rightfully so, given all the times he's been wide open and missed), with losing and the injuries. All that frustration + having to see people make light of his health boiled over. It's certainly something he needs to handle better. And maybe not playing angry, but playing with an edge can be good for him and a way to keep himself motivated in the face of all this frustration, as well as do some extra things to release some of his frustration.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted this in NFL General and thought it would be a good idea to share here.

iPwn wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
Revel8 wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
PSA: If your player has amazing stats, his name should not be mentioned in this thread. No, he is not playing "even better" than his numbers.


How does that even make any sense? Someone can have good stats but still be playing better than what those stats would indicate.

But they almost certainly aren't, because fans exaggerate this crap all the time.
Wouldn't they also overestimate the value of average players? Is a guy with 1 sack and 5 hurries really playing that much better than their stats compared to a guy with 12 pressures and 4 sacks?

For a specific example, Cecil Shorts has been targeted 63 times, with 31 catches, but a large portion of those 32 targets that didn't lead to a completion weren't your typical forced throw, or ones where a player is given a chance on the play and just doesn't come down with it. They're largely like the ones that I pointed out earlier in the thread [these were some of the pictures that have been posted in the Gabbert thread where he completely missed the throw] where there's basically no way that he can make the catch despite the fact that he was open.

With a competent QB, he should be able to have gotten another 7-8 catches with no problem. Given that's only 21-25% of the incomplete passes, and would only bring his catch rate up to 60-62%, which is completely normal for a player of his caliber (and probably a bit low compared to other #1 options), I don't think that's even close to an overstatement or exaggerated. This is also assuming that a competent Qb wouldn't have noticed him on other routes where he was open, like those I pointed out. Then we can assume that those 7-8 wouldn't include a long pass to increase his average, that's 93-106 extra yards (rounded down for both) at his current pace. Again, completely fair and leaning on the side of caution.

Cecil has played 5 games (got injured on the first drive week 6) and is averaging 82 yards through those 5 games. An extra 100 yards (right in the middle of 93 and 106) would put his average at 102 yards per game. That, again all very reasonable, uptick would move him from 12th in YPG (only counting the 5) all the way up to 4th (and 2nd among players who have played at least 5 games). It would move him from 23rd in receptions all the way up to 6th (and that's with playing a game less than all but one of the players above him).

Is that not worthy of noting or an exaggeration anymore so than the majority of the other players listed in here?

Cecil may not have the "amazing stats" to qualify for your original post, but he's got to be pretty close to being in that territory, and I'm sure there some others that could fit the same way.


Posting this because I think it's a really fair way to assess how Cecil would be doing with a competent QB, and helps better show how he's been playing this year in spite of the QBs.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good breakdown. It does help to somewhat quantify what we're seeing with Shorts III in terms of his play being very good despite the poor QB play.


I do have a bit of an issue with the way you incorporated his injury in week 6 though, as i think the approach there kind of inflates things a bit artificially. Part of Cecil's play has been that he, unfortunately, was injured. That's something that still counts. And if you're going to cut him a break of sorts on that, i think you also have to cut a lot of other receivers the same slack, which i imagine would move Shorts back down the pecking order a bit, to where it's probably a better reflection of just where he's at right now as a target.

Small concern though. And it's nice to put Shorts IIIs performance in a bit of context compared to the rest of the league.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
Good breakdown. It does help to somewhat quantify what we're seeing with Shorts III in terms of his play being very good despite the poor QB play.


I do have a bit of an issue with the way you incorporated his injury in week 6 though, as i think the approach there kind of inflates things a bit artificially. Part of Cecil's play has been that he, unfortunately, was injured. That's something that still counts. And if you're going to cut him a break of sorts on that, i think you also have to cut a lot of other receivers the same slack, which i imagine would move Shorts back down the pecking order a bit, to where it's probably a better reflection of just where he's at right now as a target.

Small concern though. And it's nice to put Shorts IIIs performance in a bit of context compared to the rest of the league.
I certainly agree that his injuries play a role in the situation and should be factored in at some level. I was just trying to quantify how he's played when he's playing, as it was a question of who has played better than their stats indicate.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Through 8 games, 7 games played
46 catches 565 yards 1 TD


On track for
92 catches, 1,130 yards, 2 TDs
or (if he doesn't miss a game)
105 catches, 1,291 yards, 2 TDs
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cecil has 58 catches and 700 yards. That 58 catches is his career high.

He is on track for:
87 catches and 1,050 yards
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Last edited by iPwn on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He still has some drops that you wish weren't there, but it really is just fun to watch him play. Not that i was unaware of this previously, but it really just hit me again today and reinforced it. He has such a knack for making fluid adjustments on the ball.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Denard throw was not a drop, btw. I don't think you were talking about that, but he was getting ripped for it on Twitter, and just no. He had his arm ripped down as he was trying to make the catch, which was perfect defense from Joseph and a very, very, very hard catch to make.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, i had no issue with that.

There are still some of those 'cart before the horse' type drops though. The ones he should have, but seems to be getting a bit ahead of things and working on what he's going to do after the catch, before he makes it.

But hey, drops happen. At least now that stickem' is gone. Evil or Very Mad
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