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Week 11 GDT Lions at Steelers
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And the winner is?
Lions
80%
 80%  [ 12 ]
Steelers
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 15

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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 25771
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimeForChange wrote:
rob_shadows wrote:
flyguy1609 wrote:
i was watching the game @ a bar, why did they kick the fg on there opening drive(or 2nd 1 i forget which 1) where staff missed megatron on the 4th n 5? we should have won that game with how bad we played minus the 2nd quarter n we had a chance to go up by 10 where we stalled at the 1 yard line or w/e we were..


Staff didn't miss Megatron on the 4th and 5, he hit him perfectly and Calvin got both hands on the ball he just flat out dropped it.

It's getting really annoying how often that happens...as great as Calvin is and as much as he can take over a game when he's on he drops way too many easy ones...it's almost like your better off putting it in a position where it's a difficult catch because he honestly seems to handle them better than the easy "hit him in the hands" type balls.


Seems like from last year to now this is happening a lot more than usual. I don't think its an injury. Just mental focus. He has the hands shown in the amazing catches he does make.

Maybe he sees an easy pass and considers it an easy catch and is looking downfield? Someone of Megatrons talent shouldn't be dropping the passes he has been dropping.

Couldn't agree more.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
I don't think there's a game in recent memory where I can spread the blame around so evenly. Stafford missed throws, receivers dropped passes, running backs struggled at times, key blocks were missed, defensive line failed to provide consistent pressure, defenders missed tackles and dropped sure INTs, and the FG unit failed to execute. Even then, we were close.

But being close doesn't make for a Super Bowl contender. It shows just how far away we really are.


I agree with you for the most part. There were errors committed by every unit of the team. So often when playing in inclement weather or on a terrible field mistakes are what win and lose games.

With the bolded part I'm not sure how I feel.

In the NFL anytime you're the visiting team it's going to be tough to win. We saw the Bronco's make a number of un characteristic mistakes at Indy which resulted in their first loss of the season. My point is in the NFL there is a great deal of parody and a large number of unexpected losses. I really feel those games have to be viewed as part of a body of work.

I really feel the biggest impediment for the Lions yesterday was the weather. Every aspect of their game from push on the defensive line to Bush's running style were negatively impacted. Stafford is a big armed QB that throws with authority. The weather impacted his grip as well as the grip of the intended target. It even impacted the Steelers ability to corral the ball on a couple of errant throws I thought were guaranteed interceptions.

This game has the potential to be a huge learning opportunity for every member of the team including the coaching staff. Hopefully they can review the tape and realize how the weather changes the players limitations.

While the loss is frustrating and a dissapointment we saw some good things to. The team didn't quit. They were down 14 early and fought back. It's just sad they couldn't put anything together in the second half.

So, while I agree with most everything you said I'm less inclined to view this game as a definitive statement about where they are on the road to contention and eventual Super Bowl WIN. Wink

Can't disagree: this could absolutely turn out to be a great learning experience that pays dividends down the road. I was hoping that we'd prove why we belong on top of the NFC North; instead, the team showed me that they weren't ready for the spotlight. Sure, it's just one game in less-than-ideal circumstances, so I'm probably exaggerating, but there were too many plays that the big players make... that we couldn't come up with. We need those.


I can't really argue your point. You may be exaggerating but I may be overly optimistic in trying to find positives.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rob_shadows wrote:
flyguy1609 wrote:
i was watching the game @ a bar, why did they kick the fg on there opening drive(or 2nd 1 i forget which 1) where staff missed megatron on the 4th n 5? we should have won that game with how bad we played minus the 2nd quarter n we had a chance to go up by 10 where we stalled at the 1 yard line or w/e we were..


Staff didn't miss Megatron on the 4th and 5, he hit him perfectly and Calvin got both hands on the ball he just flat out dropped it.

It's getting really annoying how often that happens...as great as Calvin is and as much as he can take over a game when he's on he drops way too many easy ones...it's almost like your better off putting it in a position where it's a difficult catch because he honestly seems to handle them better than the easy "hit him in the hands" type balls.


I wish I'd recorded the game I can't recall the specific ball placement on that play. As a result I will have to take your word for it.

I don't share everyone's concerns about CJ's drop rate. Officially he's dropped 4 which is 3.7%

I think everyone knows where I stand on drops. In the case of the Lions the receivers are getting far more blame than they should and Stafford's accuracy and velocity issues are rarely mentioned.

I'm not going to get into a review of the whole drops definition argument again but there was a pass yesterday, I believe it was over the middle. He was in the air totally extended. The ball contacted his hands on the finger tips and the only comments in the game thread were that he should've had it.

Certainly CJ doesn't make every catch but when you look at the quantity of work his drop rate isn't of concern. From a drop perspective Reggie Bush is a concern because he's trying to catch very short passes but their again Stafford isn't without fault as he frequently has poor ball placement on the short passes.
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TimeForChange


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diehard: you can't argue that Megatron's drop rate isn't a concern because Bush is more concerning. I don't think that its a fair argument to say we shouldn't be concerned about player A because player B is worse. However, I think 4 is a generous number. I may be a spoiled Lions fan as far as Megatron but I feel like he has more than 4 and some of the passes thrown his way are catchable but contributed to Stafford rather than drops by him.

More times than not (In my opinion) Megatrons drops are for relatively easy passes given his talent level. Wherever the blame lies, I am concerned about his drop rate.

For Megatron's defense, he is usually double teamed or expected to catch a bad throw/decision from Stafford. As well as having high expectations placed on him by fans such as myself.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we had to lose a game, at least it's out of conference. Doesn't matter as much and maybe this will give us a kick in the butt.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimeForChange wrote:
Diehard: you can't argue that Megatron's drop rate isn't a concern because Bush is more concerning. I don't think that its a fair argument to say we shouldn't be concerned about player A because player B is worse. However, I think 4 is a generous number. I may be a spoiled Lions fan as far as Megatron but I feel like he has more than 4 and some of the passes thrown his way are catchable but contributed to Stafford rather than drops by him.

More times than not (In my opinion) Megatrons drops are for relatively easy passes given his talent level. Wherever the blame lies, I am concerned about his drop rate.

For Megatron's defense, he is usually double teamed or expected to catch a bad throw/decision from Stafford. As well as having high expectations placed on him by fans such as myself.


I'm not diminishing CJ's drops because Bush drops more. I'm not concerned about CJ's drops (4) but am concerned about Bush's (7).

I searched numerous websites and they all listed CJ's drops as four which represents a 3.7% drop rate.

When we look across the league we see CJ's drops are reasonable.

Brandon Marshall 5.8%
Wes Welker. 6.8%
Hakeem Nicks. 5.3%
A.J. Green 4.9%
Josh Gordon 4.9%
Dez Bryant 3.4%
Eric Decker 8.6%
Victor Cruz 4.1%
Reggie Wayne 6.9%
Vincent Jackson 3.5%
Greg Jennings 6.8%
DeSean Jackson 3.4%
Julio Jones 3.4%
Roddy White 5.7%

Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald at 1.8% just have sick hands.

I've listed these simply because these are apparently the official numbers.

I've never personally put stock in drop stats because its a judgement call and each game has a different set of eyes. As we've seen in our own threads the opinions on drops vary widely.

So I'm in agreement the stats may not be accurate I'm just not overly concerned about CJ's drop rate. I have seen him have games where he's appeared off but again doesn't everyone have games like that?

I also think when you look at entire team drop rates, when there high the QB has to be scrutinized.

If CJ were catching short passes all the time it would increase my concern but he's second in the league in receptions 20+ and makes so many unbelievable catches that perhaps I'm overlooking some of his issues or perhaps you're right. Perhaps my heightened level of concern with others is over shadowing my view of CJ.

In the passing game my area of concern is the short passing game to the running backs and the 6-8 yard passes over the middle to Pettigrew.

I'm not referencing yesterday's game because I feel like passing out blame would be like handing out tickets for exposure in a gentle men's club.

Stafford and the RB's have an issue. If it's not for the backs dropping a pass its Stafford either throwing it in the shoe laces or over their head. There are a QB RB combinations that have ZERO drops.

Over the middle it concerns me how many balls sail. Stafford may have faith in his receivers but high passes over the middle just seem like a recipe for disaster. I think the Lions are lucky they don't have a great deal more interceptions against.

I guess looking at the whole thing philosophically given the amount of problem areas CJ is the least of my concerns.
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TimeForChange


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Drops


Well everything you said is valid and easily agreeable. Crying or Very sad

Nothing to debate. Wink

I do wish we had more of a passing connection between Bush and Stafford. I think Bell has been better than Bush. Not necessarily a stat you want to see but not one I'm disappointed in.
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