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Nads786


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comments were beyond just this game thought. I obviously don't watch the Lions as much as you guys so I'm not an expert but I always try watching the Packers Lions games and I always get a sense of "if these guys were coached better they would beat the Packers."

I think that's why a lot of the media writes off the Lions, they always expect them to 'screw it up".

How is that not on the coach?
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CutParisLenon


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nads786 wrote:
My comments were beyond just this game thought. I obviously don't watch the Lions as much as you guys so I'm not an expert but I always try watching the Packers Lions games and I always get a sense of "if these guys were coached better they would beat the Packers."

I think that's why a lot of the media writes off the Lions, they always expect them to 'screw it up".

How is that not on the coach?


I don't think that Schwartz is absolved of all responsibility, but those of us that are lifelong Lions fans know that there is a culture of losing here that extends far beyond Schwartz and we are not about to pin it all on him. We feel like he inherited the worst team in NFL history, and since he has been here, we have become relevant. In his third season after taking over the absolute, historically worst team in football, he got us to the playoffs. Granted we took a step back last year, we are rolling again this year.

The culture is starting to change, and Schwartz is a big reason for that change. So yes, there have been times where he has learned on the job and made mistakes, but we feel like he has done a good job of turning things around, especially considering how much needed to be turned around.

The culture has changed. He snapped that epic skid in 2009. We played well in 2010 (at the end). We made the playoffs in 2011. We did take a step back in 2012. We are likely making the playoffs this year. We beat Washington in Washington.

And honestly, for all the blockbuster talent we have in Megatron, Stafford, Suh and Fairly. We are still depleted in many areas. A lot of us feel like Schwartz has done a lot with not much talent.

So while Jimmy is responsible for some of the bad things that have happened over the past few years, I feel like the whole Packer thing is largely due to a mental bloc resulting from the losing culture here in Detroit. Winning in Lambeau would represent a complete shifting of culture in Detroit, and everyone in the lockerroom and the city knows it. So I think to say, "if these guys were coached better they would beat the Packers" is really overlooking the much larger issue in Detroit over the previous decades, although noone can blame you for overlooking it, because it is a issue unique to this city.
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Nads786


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I wanna point out we have the same issues with beating Greenbay but I always felt we couldn't match up to them talent wise but you guys could.

I guess I never factored in the losing culture that has plagued Detroit for such a long time, I guess with a new regime that gets taken care of but I can see why it lingers.

I also get your point of view on why you guys like Jim he basically took a crap team to a consistent contender (along with a huge talent infusion Wink).

Well regardless you guys are in the drivers seat to win the division, please beat Green Bay.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
IronMike84 wrote:
Bad game for the Bears. Missed opportunities, missed tackles, lost game.

I'm not a sore loser; the Bears just didn't do enough to deserve to win today. However, it's still laughable to watch Suh and Fairley blatantly take cheap shots at opponents and then whine when a ref pulls a flag or the league fines them. Like I said yesterday: cry me a river.


True that. While they are good players those two guys will never get my respect. Far too many dirty plays. They don't seem to learn their lesson.

What's shocking to me is how Detroit's fans either excuse or condone the team's idiocy. They're exactly like Dallas: unbelievably loaded with talent, should be a serious contender, but their overwhelming lack of discipline will ultimately cost them greatness.



Really?

In 2012 the Lions were called for personal fouls once more than the Bears. Julius Peppers was flagged as often as Suh or Fairley.

This year Detroit has more penalties in total than Chicago largely because Detroit leads the league in false starts and neutral zone infractions while Chicago has the fewest false start infractions.

Chicago leads the league in horse collar infractions, illegal contact, roughing the kicker and they are tied with Detroit and others for the most face mask infractions.

As mentioned Detroit leads the league in neutral zone infractions, false starts and is tied with Chicago and others for most face mask penalties. Detroit is also tied for the league lead in low blocks.

What's most disturbing is how fans lock in on Suh. Since Suh was suspended in 2011 he has been flagged for two personal fouls.

Last year he was called for one personal foul. 105 players received more personal fouls than he did.

This year he received a personal foul in game one but it was a questionable call that the majority of players wouldn't be flagged for.

So the reality is you have a negative image of a player and a team from a number of years ago yet recent evidence suggests you're simply wrong.

As a team the Lions players have a penalty system for personal fouls. This is beyond any punishment the league or team may hand out. All evidence suggests its worked and continues to do so.

You fit the definition of homer to a T.

You sit and talk about a Suh and Fairley yet one of the dirtiest players (by your definition) is Julius Peppers. His entire career has been marked by roughing the passer, unnecessary roughness, roughing the kicker, face mask infractions. There's also been a host of infractions that weren't called.

You sit and whine about late hits but I guess you don't remember Peppers late hit on Stafford in 2010 when he was fined for it. Later that same game he put Stafford out of the lineup. Then lets not forget the helmet to helmet on Aaron Rodgers that cost him 10k. Also another ferocious hit on Rodgers in 2012 where Peppers clearly lead with his head but didn't get fined which was ridiculous.

I don't view any of these players as dirty but if you consider Lions players dirty then have a look at the Bears because they certainly aren't darlings. Peppers is a nasty players that thrives on eliminating QB's just like other players in the league. These guys are aggressive and it's not always possible to stop 300+ pounds.

So if you're going to whine and moan about the play of others at least view all players through the same lens . I doubt that's possible considering the cheap shots you've taken throughout the thread stooping so low as to bad mouth the city of a Detroit as if its the fault of posters here.

One last point. No one cares if you respect Lions players. Most certainly Lions players don't. They got give a crap about some ridiculous anonymous poster in a football blog who is simply harbouring a grudge.
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Pep has been fined, has his fines totaled up to nearly 200K? No, even with Pep playing in his 12th season and Suh in his 4th. Suh's repeated actions have been getting the NFL's attention.

Penalties often cannot show the egregious nature of the acts themselves. Stomping was just a single penalty resulting in no more yards than barely grazing a QB's helmet with one's hand. Also did you care to think of off-season issues? How many has DET had compared to the rest of the league there?

Has Suh's image changed? How so? Taking out an OL who obviously cannot catch the guy who made the INT (Levy I think) is something that will stick in the mind of many. Does having a football camp or little acts somehow absolve how stupid some of his penalties are?

Rumor was he stomped on the GB OL due to the guy untying his shoelaces (which is bull), so what would have been a fitting retaliation towards him for that. But remember how he handled it, he said he was trying to get up (by shoving the man's head 3-4 times) and then was trying to "remove himself from the situation" when he made the stomp. Then claimed that he and "the guy upstairs knew what happened," as if people were too stupid to clearly see what happened.

What about his issues with grabbing the helmet of a QB, like when he ripped at Delhomme's helmet? I haven't seen Pep do that or kick a man in the groin either.

I'm not saying the Bears are angels, far from it, but saying that you don't see how DET has such a crappy reputation. You try to help Suh's case by saying most wouldn't have been called for it but you don't look at that little grey area for the same treatment or poor calls for the Bears, and then claim Pep has had many calls not called. Ummm, and Suh hasn't?

So why don't you take your own advice and look at all the players through the same lens, and then try to use some actual context when doing so. I respect the talent the Lions have, and I love a tough attitude in any player, but let's call a spade a spade. Suh is an overgrown child with a temper on the field. He has gone well beyond a clearly set line and then lied like an insolent brat about hi and God knowing he is innocent. THOSE reasons are why DET gets so much fluff about being undisciplined, that is why DET doesn't get the respect that many fans feel they deserve, and that is why so many people bash Suh and Co. You're every bit as big a homer as you call others.
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DetroitPride26


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
While Pep has been fined, has his fines totaled up to nearly 200K? No, even with Pep playing in his 12th season and Suh in his 4th. Suh's repeated actions have been getting the NFL's attention.

Penalties often cannot show the egregious nature of the acts themselves. Stomping was just a single penalty resulting in no more yards than barely grazing a QB's helmet with one's hand. Also did you care to think of off-season issues? How many has DET had compared to the rest of the league there?

Has Suh's image changed? How so? Taking out an OL who obviously cannot catch the guy who made the INT (Levy I think) is something that will stick in the mind of many. Does having a football camp or little acts somehow absolve how stupid some of his penalties are?

Rumor was he stomped on the GB OL due to the guy untying his shoelaces (which is bull), so what would have been a fitting retaliation towards him for that. But remember how he handled it, he said he was trying to get up (by shoving the man's head 3-4 times) and then was trying to "remove himself from the situation" when he made the stomp. Then claimed that he and "the guy upstairs knew what happened," as if people were too stupid to clearly see what happened.

What about his issues with grabbing the helmet of a QB, like when he ripped at Delhomme's helmet? I haven't seen Pep do that or kick a man in the groin either.

I'm not saying the Bears are angels, far from it, but saying that you don't see how DET has such a crappy reputation. You try to help Suh's case by saying most wouldn't have been called for it but you don't look at that little grey area for the same treatment or poor calls for the Bears, and then claim Pep has had many calls not called. Ummm, and Suh hasn't?

So why don't you take your own advice and look at all the players through the same lens, and then try to use some actual context when doing so. I respect the talent the Lions have, and I love a tough attitude in any player, but let's call a spade a spade. Suh is an overgrown child with a temper on the field. He has gone well beyond a clearly set line and then lied like an insolent brat about hi and God knowing he is innocent. THOSE reasons are why DET gets so much fluff about being undisciplined, that is why DET doesn't get the respect that many fans feel they deserve, and that is why so many people bash Suh and Co. You're every bit as big a homer as you call others.


It's okay Suh beat up on Cutler...just accept it and move on. Maybe you guys can get a Suh type player eventually.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DetroitPride26 wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
While Pep has been fined, has his fines totaled up to nearly 200K? No, even with Pep playing in his 12th season and Suh in his 4th. Suh's repeated actions have been getting the NFL's attention.

Penalties often cannot show the egregious nature of the acts themselves. Stomping was just a single penalty resulting in no more yards than barely grazing a QB's helmet with one's hand. Also did you care to think of off-season issues? How many has DET had compared to the rest of the league there?

Has Suh's image changed? How so? Taking out an OL who obviously cannot catch the guy who made the INT (Levy I think) is something that will stick in the mind of many. Does having a football camp or little acts somehow absolve how stupid some of his penalties are?

Rumor was he stomped on the GB OL due to the guy untying his shoelaces (which is bull), so what would have been a fitting retaliation towards him for that. But remember how he handled it, he said he was trying to get up (by shoving the man's head 3-4 times) and then was trying to "remove himself from the situation" when he made the stomp. Then claimed that he and "the guy upstairs knew what happened," as if people were too stupid to clearly see what happened.

What about his issues with grabbing the helmet of a QB, like when he ripped at Delhomme's helmet? I haven't seen Pep do that or kick a man in the groin either.

I'm not saying the Bears are angels, far from it, but saying that you don't see how DET has such a crappy reputation. You try to help Suh's case by saying most wouldn't have been called for it but you don't look at that little grey area for the same treatment or poor calls for the Bears, and then claim Pep has had many calls not called. Ummm, and Suh hasn't?

So why don't you take your own advice and look at all the players through the same lens, and then try to use some actual context when doing so. I respect the talent the Lions have, and I love a tough attitude in any player, but let's call a spade a spade. Suh is an overgrown child with a temper on the field. He has gone well beyond a clearly set line and then lied like an insolent brat about hi and God knowing he is innocent. THOSE reasons are why DET gets so much fluff about being undisciplined, that is why DET doesn't get the respect that many fans feel they deserve, and that is why so many people bash Suh and Co. You're every bit as big a homer as you call others.


It's okay Suh beat up on Cutler...just accept it and move on. Maybe you guys can get a Suh type player eventually.
We will probably never get those caliber of prospects (Stafford, Calvin, Suh) because we'll likely never be a complete joke of a franchise for such a long time to where we keep picking that high when those once in a generation talents come around.
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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where all this elite talent DET has is at. The Bears picked their RG and RT before DET. Therefore at least going into this season the Bears thought those were better. Would you guys trade Kris Durham and CJ for Marshall and Jeffries? I wouldn't if I were you. Most Bears fans said Melton was better than Suh (If not all). Heck Suh has a thread as the most overrated player in the NFL. Fairley is considered near the top 12 best front seven player in his own draft class (see comparisons forum again). The Lion's first round pick was considered by over 70% of the forum to be a bust 5 years from draft time (see boom bust thread in draft forum). Their own second round pick has struggled so much he has been benched off and on. Their #2 CB right now is Mathis who was a FA and no one else wanted him. He is that talented. Lions #2 TE was an UDFA rookie who some draft gurus had him as the worse TE in the draft.

Where is all this talent at?
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DetroitPride26 wrote:


It's okay Suh beat up on Cutler...just accept it and move on. Maybe you guys can get a Suh type player eventually.


And you are the ignorant type that embarrasses and acts as a poor representative for any real fan base. At what point did I say Suh had cheap shots against Cutler Sunday? I didn't like the fasemask but it wasn't malicious like what he did to Delhomme.

I'm happier with Melton than Suh, and we didn't have to be the division doormat for the better part of 20 years to get him (have the Lions even won a playoff game in that time-frame?). He'll heal up and be back to being a top DT and can do it without being trash.

Really, if you're going to talk trash about getting players, how many top 5 and top 10 picks are on your team? And how many misses were there again? Exactly. The Lions lost an NFL-worst 68% of its games from 2000 to last year. I understand you're excited about having the division lead, but I heard the last type of talk after 2011 (even without a playoff win), only for the Lions to go 4-12 last year. Though obviously you must be use to "moving on" and with the history your team has, I imagine it must be easy to do.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
DetroitPride26 wrote:


It's okay Suh beat up on Cutler...just accept it and move on. Maybe you guys can get a Suh type player eventually.


And you are the ignorant type that embarrasses and acts as a poor representative for any real fan base. At what point did I say Suh had cheap shots against Cutler Sunday? I didn't like the fasemask but it wasn't malicious like what he did to Delhomme.

I'm happier with Melton than Suh, and we didn't have to be the division doormat for the better part of 20 years to get him (have the Lions even won a playoff game in that time-frame?). He'll heal up and be back to being a top DT and can do it without being trash.

Really, if you're going to talk trash about getting players, how many top 5 and top 10 picks are on your team? And how many misses were there again? Exactly. The Lions lost an NFL-worst 68% of its games from 2000 to last year. I understand you're excited about having the division lead, but I heard the last type of talk after 2011 (even without a playoff win), only for the Lions to go 4-12 last year. Though obviously you must be use to "moving on" and with the history your team has, I imagine it must be easy to do.


Yeah all that, and your earlier rant too. The Lions are truly a terrible franchise. A terrible franchise that just swept your franchise.

(Sorry other, classier, Bears fans for the low blow. Just didn't like the high horse this guy was on.)
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LaxBroBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for rivalries and up to this point I didn't mind the crap being tossed around.....but I'm pretty much one more giant essay post away from crying.... Can we please just be friends?? Lol

Suh is great. The lions are great. I just puked in my mouth. Let's all move on.
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
DetroitPride26 wrote:


It's okay Suh beat up on Cutler...just accept it and move on. Maybe you guys can get a Suh type player eventually.


And you are the ignorant type that embarrasses and acts as a poor representative for any real fan base. At what point did I say Suh had cheap shots against Cutler Sunday? I didn't like the fasemask but it wasn't malicious like what he did to Delhomme.

I'm happier with Melton than Suh, and we didn't have to be the division doormat for the better part of 20 years to get him (have the Lions even won a playoff game in that time-frame?). He'll heal up and be back to being a top DT and can do it without being trash.

Really, if you're going to talk trash about getting players, how many top 5 and top 10 picks are on your team? And how many misses were there again? Exactly. The Lions lost an NFL-worst 68% of its games from 2000 to last year. I understand you're excited about having the division lead, but I heard the last type of talk after 2011 (even without a playoff win), only for the Lions to go 4-12 last year. Though obviously you must be use to "moving on" and with the history your team has, I imagine it must be easy to do.


Yeah all that, and your earlier rant too. The Lions are truly a terrible franchise. A terrible franchise that just swept your franchise.

(Sorry other, classier, Bears fans for the low blow. Just didn't like the high horse this guy was on.)


Nice logic. None of the antagonizing posts from any of the DET fanbase matter, nor should the catalysts for my (correct) responses be looked at in context. Rolling Eyes And we were swept 3 times by DET this century, and swept you 5 times (including last year). Up 18-10 in the series so far. this century, and 96675 overall. Like I said, move on quickly, right? So please, correct me on where I was incorrect when on my "high horse", and I'll happily admit my mistake.

And I've seen some of your posts, and from what I have seen you are very competent and haven't been one that has been boisterous or rude, but please don't pretend to be stupid enough to think two single season games dictate the success or reputation of a franchise. Even the worst teams have success in spurts, though admittedly I do hope DET gains a level of consistency to go with all the talent they have, and want the NFC North to be the best division in the game. The only person I truly despise on the team is Suh (yes, I know he is an elite talent, that as you know from my posts that is not why I hate him), I actually like most of the players there.

Lax, I hope that doesn't count as an essay. If so, I apologize. lol
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LaxBroBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
DetroitPride26 wrote:


It's okay Suh beat up on Cutler...just accept it and move on. Maybe you guys can get a Suh type player eventually.


And you are the ignorant type that embarrasses and acts as a poor representative for any real fan base. At what point did I say Suh had cheap shots against Cutler Sunday? I didn't like the fasemask but it wasn't malicious like what he did to Delhomme.

I'm happier with Melton than Suh, and we didn't have to be the division doormat for the better part of 20 years to get him (have the Lions even won a playoff game in that time-frame?). He'll heal up and be back to being a top DT and can do it without being trash.

Really, if you're going to talk trash about getting players, how many top 5 and top 10 picks are on your team? And how many misses were there again? Exactly. The Lions lost an NFL-worst 68% of its games from 2000 to last year. I understand you're excited about having the division lead, but I heard the last type of talk after 2011 (even without a playoff win), only for the Lions to go 4-12 last year. Though obviously you must be use to "moving on" and with the history your team has, I imagine it must be easy to do.


Yeah all that, and your earlier rant too. The Lions are truly a terrible franchise. A terrible franchise that just swept your franchise.

(Sorry other, classier, Bears fans for the low blow. Just didn't like the high horse this guy was on.)


Nice logic. None of the antagonizing posts from any of the DET fanbase matter, nor should the catalysts for my (correct) responses be looked at in context. Rolling Eyes And we were swept 3 times by DET this century, and swept you 5 times (including last year). Up 18-10 in the series so far. this century, and 96675 overall. Like I said, move on quickly, right? So please, correct me on where I was incorrect when on my "high horse", and I'll happily admit my mistake.

And I've seen some of your posts, and from what I have seen you are very competent and haven't been one that has been boisterous or rude, but please don't pretend to be stupid enough to think two single season games dictate the success or reputation of a franchise. Even the worst teams have success in spurts, though admittedly I do hope DET gains a level of consistency to go with all the talent they have, and want the NFC North to be the best division in the game. The only person I truly despise on the team is Suh (yes, I know he is an elite talent, that as you know from my posts that is not why I hate him), I actually like most of the players there.

Lax, I hope that doesn't count as an essay. If so, I apologize. lol


Lmao! No that one was okay with me. I appreciate the concern
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