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Manziel a perfect fit?
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Johnnygunnz


Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 4143
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
eagles18 wrote:

I wouldn't say Wilson is inferior, I would just choose Andrew Luck. He's bigger, stronger, and just as mobile. Both quarterbacks can take their teams deep into the playoffs and both teams are luck to have them. Really it's just personal preference.


Here again is that amazing contradiction

There is no way something can be both


Player A is BY FAR better than Player B and it's not even close

AND

Player A over Player B is just personal preference (aka a coin toss)


People are proposing the BY FAR argument here and abroad and when pressed to back it up with facts, they just say "personal preference" or point to the cast as a cop out, etc


The numbers are very similar, but how else are you going to choose other than "personal preference" and "projections" when the current numbers are that close? The only way to do it is by going off of what you can predict and most people around here are predicting that Luck will have a brighter future than Wilson, even in light of the stats being so close.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnygunnz wrote:

The numbers are very similar, but how else are you going to choose other than "personal preference" and "projections" when the current numbers are that close? The only way to do it is by going off of what you can predict and most people around here are predicting that Luck will have a brighter future than Wilson, even in light of the stats being so close.


Virtually every number is in favor of Russell Wilson

Russell Wilson- 100.7 passer rating
Andrew Luck- 80.1 passer rating

Russell Wilson- 43 TDs
Andrew Luck- 37 TDs

Russell Wilson- 16 INTs
Andrew Luck- 24 INTs

Russell Wilson- 63.8 completion percentage
Andrew Luck- 55.7 completion percentage

Russell Wilson- 8.1 yards per attempt
Andrew Luck- 7.0 yards per attempt

Russell Wilson- 12.7 yards per completion
Andrew Luck- 12.6 yards per completion

Russell Wilson- 6.6 touchdown percentage
Andrew Luck- 3.9 touchdown percentage

Russell Wilson- 2.5 interception percentage
Andrew Luck- 2.6 interception percentage



And people aren't saying it's personal preference when they say I'm a blind homer for not saying it's hands down Luck over Wilson. In other words for even insinuating that Wilson could be just as good or even slightly better than Luck, has been called homerism. In other words, the only acceptable opinion is to say Luck is slightly better or BY FAR better than Wilson.

How is that not unrealistic given all we have is the production to go by in their short career and there is no metric to say Luck is BY FAR better than Wilson?

The only thing there is is appeal to majority of the "experts" but the only thing those "experts" have to go on is their own PROJECTIONS that they themselves are clinging on to as well.

No one besides people who were on Russell Wilson's bandwagon from day one would say he could be as good as Luck. Russell Wilson's success has shocked people and it's too difficult for them to recalibrate their predictions for the two players because the initial predictions were so far off. So anything short of a Super Bowl and maybe even multiple Super Bowls it's going to be difficult for Luck proponents to say Wilson is better or even on par with him.
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eagles18


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 2894
Location: Mountain West USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Johnnygunnz wrote:

The numbers are very similar, but how else are you going to choose other than "personal preference" and "projections" when the current numbers are that close? The only way to do it is by going off of what you can predict and most people around here are predicting that Luck will have a brighter future than Wilson, even in light of the stats being so close.


Virtually every number is in favor of Russell Wilson

Russell Wilson- 100.7 passer rating
Andrew Luck- 80.1 passer rating

Russell Wilson- 43 TDs
Andrew Luck- 37 TDs

Russell Wilson- 16 INTs
Andrew Luck- 24 INTs

Russell Wilson- 63.8 completion percentage
Andrew Luck- 55.7 completion percentage

Russell Wilson- 8.1 yards per attempt
Andrew Luck- 7.0 yards per attempt

Russell Wilson- 12.7 yards per completion
Andrew Luck- 12.6 yards per completion

Russell Wilson- 6.6 touchdown percentage
Andrew Luck- 3.9 touchdown percentage

Russell Wilson- 2.5 interception percentage
Andrew Luck- 2.6 interception percentage



And people aren't saying it's personal preference when they say I'm a blind homer for not saying it's hands down Luck over Wilson. In other words for even insinuating that Wilson could be just as good or even slightly better than Luck, has been called homerism. In other words, the only acceptable opinion is to say Luck is slightly better or BY FAR better than Wilson.

How is that not unrealistic given all we have is the production to go by in their short career and there is no metric to say Luck is BY FAR better than Wilson?

The only thing there is is appeal to majority of the "experts" but the only thing those "experts" have to go on is their own PROJECTIONS that they themselves are clinging on to as well.

No one besides people who were on Russell Wilson's bandwagon from day one would say he could be as good as Luck. Russell Wilson's success has shocked people and it's too difficult for them to recalibrate their predictions for the two players because the initial predictions were so far off. So anything short of a Super Bowl and maybe even multiple Super Bowls it's going to be difficult for Luck proponents to say Wilson is better or even on par with him.


BBIB - I see you all over the place. What team are you a fan of?
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Jeezla


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 8825
Location: 805 Cali
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Johnnygunnz wrote:

The numbers are very similar, but how else are you going to choose other than "personal preference" and "projections" when the current numbers are that close? The only way to do it is by going off of what you can predict and most people around here are predicting that Luck will have a brighter future than Wilson, even in light of the stats being so close.


Virtually every number is in favor of Russell Wilson

Russell Wilson- 100.7 passer rating
Andrew Luck- 80.1 passer rating

Russell Wilson- 43 TDs
Andrew Luck- 37 TDs

Russell Wilson- 16 INTs
Andrew Luck- 24 INTs

Russell Wilson- 63.8 completion percentage
Andrew Luck- 55.7 completion percentage

Russell Wilson- 8.1 yards per attempt
Andrew Luck- 7.0 yards per attempt

Russell Wilson- 12.7 yards per completion
Andrew Luck- 12.6 yards per completion

Russell Wilson- 6.6 touchdown percentage
Andrew Luck- 3.9 touchdown percentage

Russell Wilson- 2.5 interception percentage
Andrew Luck- 2.6 interception percentage



And people aren't saying it's personal preference when they say I'm a blind homer for not saying it's hands down Luck over Wilson. In other words for even insinuating that Wilson could be just as good or even slightly better than Luck, has been called homerism. In other words, the only acceptable opinion is to say Luck is slightly better or BY FAR better than Wilson.

How is that not unrealistic given all we have is the production to go by in their short career and there is no metric to say Luck is BY FAR better than Wilson?

The only thing there is is appeal to majority of the "experts" but the only thing those "experts" have to go on is their own PROJECTIONS that they themselves are clinging on to as well.

No one besides people who were on Russell Wilson's bandwagon from day one would say he could be as good as Luck. Russell Wilson's success has shocked people and it's too difficult for them to recalibrate their predictions for the two players because the initial predictions were so far off. So anything short of a Super Bowl and maybe even multiple Super Bowls it's going to be difficult for Luck proponents to say Wilson is better or even on par with him.


I think if Luck was on the Seahawks and Wilson was on the Colts, Lucks #'s would be noticably better than Wilsons.
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eagles18


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 2894
Location: Mountain West USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, according to Wilson fans that's an invalid argument. Supporting casts DO NOT elevate a quarterback's play, or so they say. LUCK SUCKS!!!! (Wilson fans say)
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Jeezla


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 8825
Location: 805 Cali
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles18 wrote:
Hey, according to Wilson fans that's an invalid argument. Supporting casts DO NOT elevate a quarterback's play, or so they say. LUCK SUCKS!!!! (Wilson fans say)


We can all agree that Luck and Wilson combined only add up to 1/4th of a Foles.
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eagles18


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 2894
Location: Mountain West USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never saw Luck or Wilson throw for 16 TD's and 0 INT..

What if Foles ends up being the best QB from the 2012 NFL Draft??? Whatttttt
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Poloc2289


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3918
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luck or Wilson? Who cares, we have neither.

We have Foles.
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Please stop responding to my posts. You are a consistently terrible poster and aren't worth my time to thoroughly refute your drivel.
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Phire


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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 48332
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles18 wrote:
I never saw Luck or Wilson throw for 16 TD's and 0 INT..

What if Foles ends up being the best QB from the 2012 NFL Draft??? Whatttttt

And neither of them are making Riley Cooper look like an all-pro.
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eagles18


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 2894
Location: Mountain West USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GIFSoup
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Eagles_808


Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 27814
Location: California
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive me everyone, but I feel this thread has run its course. We have a draft prospects thread where we can discuss QBs like Manziel (hopefully not) and others.
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