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2014 Draft Discussion Thread
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7318
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
Why can no credit be given to Stanford's defense when evaluating Mariota? They absolutely controlled the line of scrimmage. I'm not sure how Mariota is somehow docked points because his team throws a lot of bubble screens. Btw, I hope a new coaching staff can implement that aspect of offense because the Bucs have been an awful screen team for years.

Obviously, Mariota was playing with some type of knee injury. I saw good pocket awareness under heavy pressure for the most part. Sure he is a work in progress, but all the tools are there.

I guess he isn't a good prospect because he has now lost to Stanford twice. Of course, Peyton lost to Florida 4 times, fortunately for Colts fans Polian did not dock him too many points in his evaluation.


It's not just the performance. It's the lack of attempting and making nfl quality throws in this game and all season. I would say 75% of his throws were screens and 3-5 yard stop routes in space.



There are plenty of QBs drafted in the first round who make or attempt NFL quality throws. I'm not even sure what that means considering much of the NFL passing concepts are predicated on spread concepts. Mariota certainly has the arm strength to throw outside the hashes. He will most certainly be a top ten, probably top five pick if he declares.

I could give you a pretty long list of QBs drafted in the first round who didn't play in pro style offenses, but it would be a waste of time. I would be shocked after the draft evaluation process is completed that Mariota would not be the second QB taken after Teddy if he declares.


It might just be me but there are things I like about mariota and things I don't. Idk I keep thinking the last high risk high reward qb we took didn't work out. Mariota to me needs another year at the college level. RS Soph qbs are always risky. I also see a lot of similarities between him and Dixon.

And when I say nfl like throws, he's not making all throws on the route tree. A lot of screens short crosses and stop routes. He benefits a lot of YAC.

Watched a good amount of him last year and few times this year and I see it consistently. The read option has only been effective last year. You see most of those qbs are struggling as defenses have figured it out.
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Caaddy24


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 5430
Location: Houston
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ABucNBradenton wrote:
Lil' Shorty wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
100% fine keeping glennon and passing on mariota. Kid is high risk high reward. Not to call anyone out but there were posts having him and bridgewater. 1a and 1b. Not even close.

Haha. Not to call anybody out huh? Well ill step up and just say it was me. I honestly think Mariota will do very well in the NFL one day. Maybe he needs a little bit more seasoning. But his defense did him no favors last night and neither did his OL. Something to think about. The last 2 teams Mariota played, UCLA and Stanford, both represent a better defense than Bridgewater has ever faced, and Bridgewater only faced one his whole collegiate career in Florida. Bridgewater is very good no doubt, but to say Mariota isn't even close is a bit over the top.


Agreed and I have seen Mariota make NFL throws. He actually throws a really nice ball. I would Take Bridgewater number one but to just throw Mariota out the window because the OREGON DUCKS lost to Stanford is just absurd.


Yeah that's what I was thinking. I'm not for or against mariotta or anything but Stanfords defensive line had him running for his life every. single. play. He had probably a handful of plays where he could actually step up and throw in the pocket
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I want to make note of: running qbs. Eventually you have to become a drop back pocket passer and make the necessary nfl reads and progressions. Rg 3 is finding this out that he can't run past everyone with that read option.

Mariota has a lot of upside. But like I said many times. RS sophomores are tough to judge. Scouts cannot get a lot of in season access and information from coaches on underclassman during the season. You can see mariota is raw in the passing game. The Oregon offense makes it tough to judge how'd he adapt to the nfl.

At the end of the day , my personal opinion: drop back pocket passers are the way to go. I compare mariota to kapernick, but people forget Kap was a senior and still raw as a prospect with a ton of upside. Mariota needs to stay and I think he does.

I'm all for not taking a qb that high if there are risks. To me you don't take a qb top 3 or 5 unless they're polished in every aspect of their game. Bucs cannot afford another bust that high. Build around the qb in that situation.

I Also want to see how glennon plays the rest of the year. He looks very good and has progressed weekly.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if scenario. Mariotta doesn't declare. Manziel does. We own the 2nd pick. We take either clowny or Matthews.

In round 2 would you take Manziel ? Debate.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
What if scenario. Mariotta doesn't declare. Manziel does. We own the 2nd pick. We take either clowny or Matthews.

In round 2 would you take Manziel ? Debate.


I would probably prefer a Clowney/Mettenberger draft.
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canadabuccaneer


Joined: 20 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
What if scenario. Mariotta doesn't declare. Manziel does. We own the 2nd pick. We take either clowny or Matthews.

In round 2 would you take Manziel ? Debate.


I actually would hope Derek Carr is there. He has looked really good this year. The throws off the back foot kind of annoy me though but that's really it. Last year he was horrible under pressure, he has improved that a lot this year. He seems like a QB that learns quickly. We would need a good QB coach.
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96BucsBallin


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Keep an eye on this kid tonight, #44 J.C. Copeland. I have him in my bucs mock draft. 6'1 280 lb FB who can run/pass block, run the ball and receive out of the backfield. All-around stud. Copeland lining up behind Lorig in our goal line set would be scary. When I watch his running style he reminds me of Alstott, a lot of power mixed with surprising agility. And when he blocks, wow, this kid wants to demolish the defenders. Top FB in the draft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrjD9jYx4U
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadabuccaneer wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
What if scenario. Mariotta doesn't declare. Manziel does. We own the 2nd pick. We take either clowny or Matthews.

In round 2 would you take Manziel ? Debate.


I actually would hope Derek Carr is there. He has looked really good this year. The throws off the back foot kind of annoy me though but that's really it. Last year he was horrible under pressure, he has improved that a lot this year. He seems like a QB that learns quickly. We would need a good QB coach.


Like Carr a lot too and would like the similar scenario. Agree with his footwork but that's coachable and Carr is a bright kid. Quick release and has really done well under pressure. Little jay cutler in him but better decision maker.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

96BucsBallin wrote:


Keep an eye on this kid tonight, #44 J.C. Copeland. I have him in my bucs mock draft. 6'1 280 lb FB who can run/pass block, run the ball and receive out of the backfield. All-around stud. Copeland lining up behind Lorig in our goal line set would be scary. When I watch his running style he reminds me of Alstott, a lot of power mixed with surprising agility. And when he blocks, wow, this kid wants to demolish the defenders. Top FB in the draft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrjD9jYx4U


Agreed. I good late round guy we can get. Lorig is above average, but has a hard time staying healthy
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of me would love Manziel in the nfl. The other part says his game just doesn't seem to translate. Love him as a college player. Nfl prospect I just don't see it unless he makes major strides.
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Part of me would love Manziel in the nfl. The other part says his game just doesn't seem to translate. Love him as a college player. Nfl prospect I just don't see it unless he makes major strides.


http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/9/17/4742184/johnny-manziel-nfl-draft-nick-saban

He has to play in the right offense. I don't believe the Schiano offensive philosophy would be a good fit. Very Happy
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
What if scenario. Mariotta doesn't declare. Manziel does. We own the 2nd pick. We take either clowny or Matthews.

In round 2 would you take Manziel ? Debate.
Clowney reminds me of Gaines Adams so much, its hard for me to call him a no-brainer anymore. Either way both defensive and offensive lines need another piece because both have been underwhelming this year. I'd go Clowney over Matthews though because he has upside to single handily dominate games like Simeon Rice use to do for us. A franchise LT doesn't really impact a game as much, we'd just have one side to not worry about. Penn is 30 so we still have about 2 years to find his replacement not rushing that yet. Meanwhile, we got a GAPING hole at LDE where I think Clowney could potentially flourish in.

Pass on Manziel. He is a good talent and a good passer but I think his game doesn't translate in the pros. I think he could be a solid QB in the Vick like sense but will end up on the IR every year. His body is not going to hold up in the NFL. I'll take a hard look at Carr and Brotles though.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sold on Carr. His flaws are correctable and would love to get him in round 2 or late in round 1.

And Matthews could play RT giving us excellent protection. Clowny is a lot of hype and he looks gassed at times in the middle of the game and takes plays off. I'd take Matthews over him. Heck Id take Trent Murphy over him.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do people want a 2nd round quarterback so bad? If we can't get Teddy, might as well stick with Glennon for another year.

What happens if we take a guy like Carr in round 2, he learns behind Glennon for a bit and eventually comes in and looks shaky, then we get the 1st overall pick? Do we pass on a potential beast for Derek Carr and his correctable flaws?

Honestly, unless we can get a top notch quarterback this draft, I don't see the point of taking another guy who needs to learn. Basically picking Glennon for a second straight year. Successful teams do not continuously draft quarterbacks in rounds 2-3-4.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that note: I'm a jags fan the rest of the way. Bridgwater is the guy I'd love to have.
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