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PFF Ranks Both Redskins "Starting" DEs as Bottom 5
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Dro


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 375
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Dro wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
Dro wrote:
We should just take a flyer on Jay Ratliff if he passes a physical.. We have 2 bottom 5 guys in the NFL.. At least we have a chance of him being better and snagging a better player.


He's a nose tackle right -- so we move Cofield to end ?


you could actually play Ratliff at End imo hes a good pass rusher..
I know we desperately need DE help, but Ratliff is Haynesworth 2.0. He's just trying to get another contract signed he has no intention of helping any team competitively. We don't need someone like that on our team.


Difference is that we'd be paying Ratliff vet minimum with possibly some sweeteners for the rest of the season instead an ungodly albatross of a contract.

As for helping, I would be very surprised if he wasn't focused on helping. If he's looking for that one last score, playing his tuckus off would be the way to do it.

In any event, here are the three possibilities:
1. We pay him little, and he doesn't pan out. Result? Oh well, probably no worse than what our DL is doing.
2. We pay him little, he goes off, but doesn't re-sign. Result? Hey we got half a season out of him for vet min. Nice!
3. We pay him little, he goes off, and re-signs. Result? It will depend on the contract. This is the case to worry about.

Still 1 out of 3 possibilities has a significant upside for little cost, 1 of 3 has upside with possible downside of bad long term contract, and the final option is no real change from where we are now.


couldnt have said it better myself.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course I agree with Woz, but I still say he wouldn't start. He'd come in and be part of our rotation. I'm tellin ya, Jenkins is going to be starring this week or next and when he does, everyone is going to be saying, damn we missed that guy.
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markrc99


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote: "Of course I agree with Woz, but I still say he [Jay Ratliff] wouldn't start. He'd come in and be part of our rotation. I'm tellin ya, Jenkins is going to be starting this week or next and when he does, everyone is going to be saying, damn we missed that guy."

Well, let's hope so because they could use him! With respect to Ratliff, they need guys who can give them a serious push up inside. Whether he'd fit their base scheme doesn't really matter; as you say, he'd be part of their mix once they wanted to defend pass. But the counter is true too, he has to come through all these hoops with respect to his status, where his head is at & what he expects for compensation. Another DT who came out in 2010 is D'Anthony Smith. Spent his 1st two years on IR & ended up there last year as well. Has really bounced around & is currently a FA. He was drafted in the 3rd RD because he displayed a high motor and could penetrate & oddly, was durable. Gives you nothing vs run, but he & perhaps a Kheeston Randall are guys they can also... look at. If Bowen can help them, then that's on Haslett, but I paid closer attention to him again vs the Bears & I'm not seeing it. He rarely manages to penetrate but what's strange is that he doesn't even try to get himself into the passing lane to factor that way. He'll flash & then disappear for long stretches, they need much more than that. You mentioned that Chris Baker had a sack, but what they did is run a stunt, looping Baker around not one man but two. That additional shift caught the OL & he came clean! Well, doesn't that count, wasn't it a great play? Of course, but you can't run that 5-10 a game and expect it to work. See, the scheme got him that sack. They need a couple of stallions up front that scare people ... & for good reason! As already noted, that's the surest & quickest way to get that defense turned around.

You've also said that if the back could cover for a bit the rush would get there, but most teams do the same thing in the same situation. When the game is still in the balance and you've got to blitz to get pressure, often the coverage is off. They're going to hope for an errant pass or a dropped ball. Perhaps a false start or a holding penalty or a batted ball, a mix up in their protection, something... Defenses are notorious for making their stand in the red zone. Against Peyton Manning, I think it would be better to drop seven and flood the short to medium zones. For me, I think his weaknesses at this point of his career are his immobility and his arm strength on the deep ball. Double his wideouts as often as is necessary. Don't let Fletcher get isolated vs the TE. Another tendency is Manning's desire to shoulder the offense and win by passing. I would not start the game in my base. Make Denver beat you on the ground and remain committed to it. I'd have Orakpo & Kerrigan at DE all game, not just in sure passing situations. Rush to a spot, you can find Manning is the same place every time. Blitz if they have to, but hopefully because they want to, not because they need to. If the Redskins offense can play like they did last week & they can force Manning to go downfield to complete passes & the secondary can compete against those throws, I think the Redskins will take this game.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is our secondary can't compete. Hall is only one with 1/2 a chance at covering his man and if his man is D Thomas all game I don't have faith that anyone we have can slow down Welker and Decker. Decker is a lot like Jordy Nelson who abused Amerson. Welker is a better route runner than Cobb and Cobb abused Josh Wilson.

The colts have actually invested in their secondary since Pagano came there. He knows the value of having good to great players on the back end. Our VP of personnel and HC does not.

There's just no way these guys can cover the broncos. Our only chance is to get pressure and bring pressure.
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Dro


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
The problem is our secondary can't compete. Hall is only one with 1/2 a chance at covering his man and if his man is D Thomas all game I don't have faith that anyone we have can slow down Welker and Decker. Decker is a lot like Jordy Nelson who abused Amerson. Welker is a better route runner than Cobb and Cobb abused Josh Wilson.

The colts have actually invested in their secondary since Pagano came there. He knows the value of having good to great players on the back end. Our VP of personnel and HC does not.

There's just no way these guys can cover the broncos. Our only chance is to get pressure and bring pressure.


from what ive seen the corners do ok.. the safeties are trash, but we aren't getting a consistent inside push allowing qbs to step up and drive the ball down the field...
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dro wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The problem is our secondary can't compete. Hall is only one with 1/2 a chance at covering his man and if his man is D Thomas all game I don't have faith that anyone we have can slow down Welker and Decker. Decker is a lot like Jordy Nelson who abused Amerson. Welker is a better route runner than Cobb and Cobb abused Josh Wilson.

The colts have actually invested in their secondary since Pagano came there. He knows the value of having good to great players on the back end. Our VP of personnel and HC does not.

There's just no way these guys can cover the broncos. Our only chance is to get pressure and bring pressure.


from what ive seen the corners do ok.. the safeties are trash, but we aren't getting a consistent inside push allowing qbs to step up and drive the ball down the field...
"Ok" isn't going to cut it vs the Broncos.

Yes, we aren't getting a great at getting a push up front. It happens when you're top DL pass rusher can't play because of a leg injury and his back up can't play because he was suspended.
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Dro


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Dro wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The problem is our secondary can't compete. Hall is only one with 1/2 a chance at covering his man and if his man is D Thomas all game I don't have faith that anyone we have can slow down Welker and Decker. Decker is a lot like Jordy Nelson who abused Amerson. Welker is a better route runner than Cobb and Cobb abused Josh Wilson.

The colts have actually invested in their secondary since Pagano came there. He knows the value of having good to great players on the back end. Our VP of personnel and HC does not.

There's just no way these guys can cover the broncos. Our only chance is to get pressure and bring pressure.


from what ive seen the corners do ok.. the safeties are trash, but we aren't getting a consistent inside push allowing qbs to step up and drive the ball down the field...
"Ok" isn't going to cut it vs the Broncos.

Yes, we aren't getting a great at getting a push up front. It happens when you're top DL pass rusher can't play because of a leg injury and his back up can't play because he was suspended.


I'm not talking about just the broncos.. not many teams in the NFL are built to hang with the broncos and all 4 of their receiving threats..

We should model our defensive line much like the Jets.. Wilkerson,Richardson, Coples (when they bring him up on the line) and even Eliis when he gets burn..

ILB,DE,S are the serious issues.. CB is ok right now enough to build in other spots.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Week 9 rankings still have Bowen and Golston in the bottom 5 in the NFL. Interesting enough Cofield has cracked the Top 5 BEST 3-4 NTs in the NFL.

Redskin players who made the list:

Trent Williams - #3 BEST OT in the NFL
Kory Lich - #4 BEST OG in the NFL
Barry Cofield - #5 BEST 3-4 NT in the NFL

Kedric Golston - #2 WORST 3-4 DE in the NFL
Stephen Bowen - #4 WORST 3-4 DE in the NFL
London Fletcher - #2 WORST 3-4 ILB in the NFL
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Doc Draper


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Week 9 rankings still have Bowen and Golston in the bottom 5 in the NFL. Interesting enough Cofield has cracked the Top 5 BEST 3-4 NTs in the NFL.

Redskin players who made the list:

Trent Williams - #3 BEST OT in the NFL
Kory Lich - #4 BEST OG in the NFL
Barry Cofield - #5 BEST 3-4 NT in the NFL

Kedric Golston - #2 WORST 3-4 DE in the NFL
Stephen Bowen - #4 WORST 3-4 DE in the NFL
London Fletcher - #2 WORST 3-4 ILB in the NFL




This is laughable to put Lich in the top 4. Perhaps they meant bottom 4? He can't play as a NFL guard, gets completely man-handled in pass blocking. He is very good at getting to the second level, but that is just one phase of the game. Block the guy in front of you- and he is competely destroyed at least half the time. It doesn't help he has a worst center in the league next to him and a right guard who should have retired last year.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a fair ranking for Kory. He's had a good year outside of the Cowboys game when he couldn't block Jason hatcher.

Hopefully Adam Carriker can come back in Dec or next year for our DL and Jenkins can prove something.

I still want Randy Starks in free agency to start at one of the DE positions.

The Cowboys are going to be over the cap this up coming offseason. I'm praying every night that they won't have the $$ to re-sign Sean Lee and we can steal him from the Cowboys

Gotta get Brandon Browner and and Jarius Byrd for our secondary and continue to develop the young guys.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
That's a fair ranking for Kory. He's had a good year outside of the Cowboys game when he couldn't block Jason hatcher.

Hopefully Adam Carriker can come back in Dec or next year for our DL and Jenkins can prove something.

I still want Randy Starks in free agency to start at one of the DE positions.

The Cowboys are going to be over the cap this up coming offseason. I'm praying every night that they won't have the $$ to re-sign Sean Lee and we can steal him from the Cowboys

Gotta get Brandon Browner and and Jarius Byrd for our secondary and continue to develop the young guys.
I actually don't think either of our guards are that terrible. We're near the top in the NFL in rushing yards and don't give up many sacks (except up the middle). I think replacing our C and RT position would solidify the Oline and we need to coach up our RBs on pass protection more. Morris is definitely no Clinton Portis in pass protection.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
That's a fair ranking for Kory. He's had a good year outside of the Cowboys game when he couldn't block Jason hatcher.

Hopefully Adam Carriker can come back in Dec or next year for our DL and Jenkins can prove something.

I still want Randy Starks in free agency to start at one of the DE positions.

The Cowboys are going to be over the cap this up coming offseason. I'm praying every night that they won't have the $$ to re-sign Sean Lee and we can steal him from the Cowboys

Gotta get Brandon Browner and and Jarius Byrd for our secondary and continue to develop the young guys.
I actually don't think either of our guards are that terrible. We're near the top in the NFL in rushing yards and don't give up many sacks (except up the middle). I think replacing our C and RT position would solidify the Oline and we need to coach up our RBs on pass protection more. Morris is definitely no Clinton Portis in pass protection.
Yeah, I agree. I remember Kory and Chris C having their moments when they struggled like vs the Cowboys but overall they've been fine. I think upgrading Monty and making him a reserve would be ideal.

It'd be nice if they do what footy29 always talked about, move Kory L to Center and either find a new LG or possibly next year LeRib is ready to start at LG.

It would be obviously ideal to have LeRibeus finally step up.

Good point about Morris not being great at pass protection also. It makes a difference when the running back can pick up the blitz. That's why in ibviius passing situations Helu is in there, he's a good blocker and when Philly was blitzing us like crazy up the middle, we inserted Helu and he started picking up that blitz.
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