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We have NOT been able to run the ball when necessary
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LeeV1990


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: We have NOT been able to run the ball when necessary Reply with quote

Kenny3000 wrote:
Since 1996... And it has cost us games and potential playoff berths. Examples this year include the chiefs, broncos, and the lions games. Why can't we run the ball three times for 10 yards???


Well against the Broncos, I can't remember if it was one or two, but that is how many carries Murray got in the second half. I understand it was a shootout and you have to put points on the board, but he was running decently in the first half, averaging 4 ypc. I don't think we should run the ball more throughout the course of a game then pass, but for you starting RB to only get one or two carries in the second half of a ball game is ridiculous.

Nothing is more frustrating for me then watching the offense come out and throw three incompletions in a row and punt only taking 20 seconds off the clock. Not having Murray really hurts our run game. I think our backups are nice change of pace backs, but none of them can just hop in the game when he gets hurt and our offense not miss a beat like a Ben Tate for example. He may not be the best example as he would be a starter on most teams and could likely be better than Murray. But when you have an injury prone RB you need someone who is better than just a "backup."
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What not many understand, is that for a playcaller, one of the main things you want to avoid is three runs that result in a punt. If the run isn't working, it is hard to stick with it unless you are a very strong defensive team - the Niners, for example, will continually run and punt if they need to, because they can rely on their defense to give them the ball back quickly.

In Dallas, we can't rely on that. Our defense is a major weak point. So running the ball when you aren't getting first downs from it becomes a very "not smart" idea. If the run is working, of course you stick with it. But if it isn't working, you can't keep exposing your defense like that to extra possessions by the opposing offense.

It's a two sided coin, or double edged sword, whatever you want to call it.

The main thing, is that when the run works, you stick to it - and we do, sometimes, when it is working well. But when it isn't working, you shouldn't all out abandon it as we tend to - but understanding why we abandon it does make a large difference. If something isn't working, you can't keep trying to make it work. That is a good way to lose a game.

The only way for this team to run the ball right now, is to make it work again. In order to do that, we need to improve the depth chart of ball carriers and find a unit that generates a bit better of a hole for a runner. Until then, we can hand off 30 times all you guys like - it'll only result in the same, a loss.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is anyone watching the Bears/Packers game right now?

You see, THIS is what a power running game can do for you when your QB is hurt or just having a bad day. The Packers lost Rodgers on the first drive. They fell behind by 7 at the half, and then...............................

Then they saddled their running game behind Starks and Lacey. They are simply running over the Bears. Win, lose or draw this strategy would be a wonderful pet to have in Dallas again. PLEASE draft an OG and a REAL RB!
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MightyMouse07


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rtnldave wrote:
Is anyone watching the Bears/Packers game right now?

You see, THIS is what a power running game can do for you when your QB is hurt or just having a bad day. The Packers lost Rodgers on the first drive. They fell behind by 7 at the half, and then...............................

Then they saddled their running game behind Starks and Lacey. They are simply running over the Bears. Win, lose or draw this strategy would be a wonderful pet to have in Dallas again. PLEASE draft an OG and a REAL RB!


Can we grab Starks? Laughing

Maybe Franklin?

I brought up the same point in another thread right now.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chicago's front 7 is pretty much wrecked. Missing two starting linebackers and their DL situation is comparable to Dallas'.

Still, if Murray's healthy there's no reason for him to get just 4 carries.
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Rtnldave


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
Chicago's front 7 is pretty much wrecked. Missing two starting linebackers and their DL situation is comparable to Dallas'.

Still, if Murray's healthy there's no reason for him to get just 4 carries.


If brother, if! I'm not feeling good moving forward with a guy that simply cannot stay healthy. He has proven that much already.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree he's not the long term answer, but he's the best thing we've got right now. And he looked fine yesterday.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I have wanted, with this team, to pass much more than we run. But for whatever reason fans here love to see us run into walls. We just gain 40 yards on two passing plays and the first people here say is, "OKAY! RUN THE F'IN BALL!!!"

It is very frustrating. Fans continue to want square pieces to be shoved into round holes. They let themselves believe the very misleading stat of our victory percentage based on rushes.


I strictly want run mixed in enough that the safeties have to honor it, thus making it easier for Dez and Williams to go deep. Not to mention, it can help protect Romo. I have no sentimental attachment to running the ball.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I have wanted, with this team, to pass much more than we run. But for whatever reason fans here love to see us run into walls. We just gain 40 yards on two passing plays and the first people here say is, "OKAY! RUN THE F'IN BALL!!!"

It is very frustrating. Fans continue to want square pieces to be shoved into round holes. They let themselves believe the very misleading stat of our victory percentage based on rushes.


I strictly want run mixed in enough that the safeties have to honor it, thus making it easier for Dez and Williams to go deep. Not to mention, it can help protect Romo. I have no sentimental attachment to running the ball.


GD I agree with what you are saying. The challenge for me is that when you look at numbers we don't execute well when we run the ball. We average 3.7 yards per carry which is poor. So for me right now it's not the sheer number of running plays or the ratio of run to pass, it's our inability to execute running plays effectively that is the issue. Statistically running the ball more simply to have more running plays called may only end up with us facing a greater down and distance challenge on the next play given our inability to run effectively.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northland wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I have wanted, with this team, to pass much more than we run. But for whatever reason fans here love to see us run into walls. We just gain 40 yards on two passing plays and the first people here say is, "OKAY! RUN THE F'IN BALL!!!"

It is very frustrating. Fans continue to want square pieces to be shoved into round holes. They let themselves believe the very misleading stat of our victory percentage based on rushes.


I strictly want run mixed in enough that the safeties have to honor it, thus making it easier for Dez and Williams to go deep. Not to mention, it can help protect Romo. I have no sentimental attachment to running the ball.


GD I agree with what you are saying. The challenge for me is that when you look at numbers we don't execute well when we run the ball. We average 3.7 yards per carry which is poor. So for me right now it's not the sheer number of running plays or the ratio of run to pass, it's our inability to execute running plays effectively that is the issue. Statistically running the ball more simply to have more running plays called may only end up with us facing a greater down and distance challenge on the next play given our inability to run effectively.


I disagree. If we weren't so obvious when we are going to run, we might have a little more success. When you only run on 1st down, and then switch to an empty set on 2nd and 3rd down, it makes it pretty obvious whether we are running or passing. I'd prefer to see us go 3 WR 1TE and 1RB most of the time with Dez, Williams, Beasley and no Harris. That way the D is seeing the same formation, but doesn't know if it's run or pass.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Northland wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I have wanted, with this team, to pass much more than we run. But for whatever reason fans here love to see us run into walls. We just gain 40 yards on two passing plays and the first people here say is, "OKAY! RUN THE F'IN BALL!!!"

It is very frustrating. Fans continue to want square pieces to be shoved into round holes. They let themselves believe the very misleading stat of our victory percentage based on rushes.


I strictly want run mixed in enough that the safeties have to honor it, thus making it easier for Dez and Williams to go deep. Not to mention, it can help protect Romo. I have no sentimental attachment to running the ball.


GD I agree with what you are saying. The challenge for me is that when you look at numbers we don't execute well when we run the ball. We average 3.7 yards per carry which is poor. So for me right now it's not the sheer number of running plays or the ratio of run to pass, it's our inability to execute running plays effectively that is the issue. Statistically running the ball more simply to have more running plays called may only end up with us facing a greater down and distance challenge on the next play given our inability to run effectively.


I disagree. If we weren't so obvious when we are going to run, we might have a little more success. When you only run on 1st down, and then switch to an empty set on 2nd and 3rd down, it makes it pretty obvious whether we are running or passing. I'd prefer to see us go 3 WR 1TE and 1RB most of the time with Dez, Williams, Beasley and no Harris. That way the D is seeing the same formation, but doesn't know if it's run or pass.


good point. One would think that with our effective passing game we could us the pass to set up the run.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
Northland wrote:
GeneralDissaray wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I have wanted, with this team, to pass much more than we run. But for whatever reason fans here love to see us run into walls. We just gain 40 yards on two passing plays and the first people here say is, "OKAY! RUN THE F'IN BALL!!!"

It is very frustrating. Fans continue to want square pieces to be shoved into round holes. They let themselves believe the very misleading stat of our victory percentage based on rushes.


I strictly want run mixed in enough that the safeties have to honor it, thus making it easier for Dez and Williams to go deep. Not to mention, it can help protect Romo. I have no sentimental attachment to running the ball.


GD I agree with what you are saying. The challenge for me is that when you look at numbers we don't execute well when we run the ball. We average 3.7 yards per carry which is poor. So for me right now it's not the sheer number of running plays or the ratio of run to pass, it's our inability to execute running plays effectively that is the issue. Statistically running the ball more simply to have more running plays called may only end up with us facing a greater down and distance challenge on the next play given our inability to run effectively.


I disagree. If we weren't so obvious when we are going to run, we might have a little more success. When you only run on 1st down, and then switch to an empty set on 2nd and 3rd down, it makes it pretty obvious whether we are running or passing. I'd prefer to see us go 3 WR 1TE and 1RB most of the time with Dez, Williams, Beasley and no Harris. That way the D is seeing the same formation, but doesn't know if it's run or pass.


Not to dispute what you said but simply to continue the discussion. We are obvious about our running plays. However, we also don't have a fullback on the roster. Go back to 2011. See the reference at the end of the post. With a healthy Tony Fiammetta in the lineup over 6 games we averaged 146 ypg and 5.8 per carry. We were 5-1 in those games. When Fiammetta got hurt we averaged 83 ypg and 3.3 yards per carry. Our record was 2-4 in those games. We were a very effective running team with a good FB. So no doubt that our playcalling and specifically when we choose to run is an issue. Execution of said running plays is an issue. Personnel and offensive philosophy re the run game is an issue as well. Not to beat a point to death but one would think that with our passing game we could use it to soften defenses and set the run up. This points to playcalling and execution.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7320421/dallas-cowboys-tony-fiammetta-ready-return-week
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, Vickers was better than Fiammetta. Yet with him, our running game was awful.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
The thing is, Vickers was better than Fiammetta. Yet with him, our running game was awful.


It was, but we weren't disguising our runs terribly well, either. We were telegraphing nearly every play, run or pass. We also called the same plays in nearly the same situations each and every week, so we were limiting our own opportunities to make plays. This, coupled with the lack of cohesion with Vickers' style, really hurt us. Not to mention our offensive line being an utter abomination.
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