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Jarvis Jones benched
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49027
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:

People get too hung up on physical shortcomings. Ill take a guy with good instincts, high motor and just a good football player over a great athlete that plays football.


The main issue is, pass rushing at ROLB kind of is based more on athletic ability. You can get by with intelligence at a lot of positions, but above maybe all others on the field pass rushing comes down to being a freak athlete. They are probably the best athletes pound for pound on the football field.

What does the complicated defense have to do with his ability to get the edge against a LT?

He's not a bust because of six games, but right now he hasn't flashed the physical ability to do this. I think the people arguing otherwise have blinders on.

In this same vein, if there is a great pass rusher sitting there in R1 or R2, would it be particularly objectionable to anyone if the team took them? Would anyone scream bloody murder if the team moves Jones to ILB?


I dont care how they use Jones, but he has alot of natural ability and a talent for disruption.

And Jones has more athleticism than given credit for. He isnt on the Aldon Smith level, but he has enough to make plays on a regular basis.

I legit dont get the explosion argument. Ive seen plenty...both in college and during his time in the pros. Maybe we have different ideas of what explosion is, but the way I see it, he has it.

And while athletcism is important, there have been a ton of great athletes to come into the league as 34 OLBs and fall flat on their face because thats all they were...great athletes. Vernon Gholston, Jarvis Moss and Aaron Maybin....3 guys in recent years off the top of my head that were heralded for their elite athleticism...unfortunately, thats all they had.

NOW...I realize there have been freak athletes to pan out...but my point is is its hard to find both a highly instinctual, quality football player and an athlete rolled into one. I am not saying Jones will be a great player, but I feel like he will be. I think its just a matter of him learning the defense and settling in.

As far as Barr, Van Noy or another pass rusher....I dont care. At this point, I just want players that can make us better....I dont care where we get them or what position they play. We need help everywhere.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
At this point, I just want players that can make us better....I dont care where we get them or what position they play. We need help everywhere.


yeah, can't argue with this one, it's spot on.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worilds should have began this season as the starter. They should have brought Jones along slower.

I mean 0 sacks through 7 games is really poor for a starting 3-4 OLB. I realize he was close to a few, and has several hits and pressures but still... Not good

I don't know the exact #s, but is say Worilds has 1/2 the snaps as jones, the same tackle and pressure stats and a sack... Yep, just as I've said forever, Worilds should have been starting and it should have been his job to lose to start the season.

Now what they've done is given Jones the job w/o him earning it and he didn't play very good so they were forced to bench him in favor of Worilds and now this benching could hurt Jones' confidence moving forward.

They really handled this poorly.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:


Ward4HOF wrote:


So now that he gets benched, everyone's coming out of the "woodwork" saying "I told ya so!"


do you need me to dig up my OLB evaluations where I said that Jones was going to be a failure as a pass rusher in a Steelers' 3-4? No, that's my point, now that he's benched, you are saying 'I told ya' so'. It's hardly me coming out of the woodworks on this one

Ward4HOF wrote:
We all need to give the dude a fair shot. If he doesn't pan out after 3 years (like Worilds), then I'll happily jump aboard the "he stinks and was a mistake" bandwagon


we can't afford to wait another 3 seasons to discover yet another 1st round failure. We can't afford another 3 seasons without a pass rush. Our window of opportunity with a healthy Big Ben cannot afford a 3-year wait.

Only in Pittsburgh are we content to wait 3 years for a first rounder to be relevant. Problem is, we're not a good team anymore, so we cannot AFFORD 3 years. That was the excuse about Ziggy, just wait, it takes awhile for rookies to learn "the system", and all other crock of BS. Yet here we are with a rookie calling the defensive signals of this supposed War and Peace defense. It's a crock.

Jones is slow, he isn't strong, and he doesn't get off blocks. The first two are just bunk, he's exploded up the field on several occasions, one of which the fumble he caused in pre-season, another was the tackle on CJ2K...it was like he was shot out of a canyon. Just because he has looked slow at times doesn't make him so, but that does work the other way around...he is fast at times (at Ridgemont High, LOL, I crack myself up!) but yes, it would be nice to see it more often. And he has plenty of strength, and knows how to use leverage, which I've seen on more than one occasion, as when he walked D'Brick back during the Jets game. Is it all the time every play? no. Do I think he should be given a season to put it all together? yep. That's all I'm saying. But you are right, we can't afford to wait another 3 years, I was just using Worilds as a comparison, but one season? yes, he should be afforded that. That was the way he looked at Georgia, and that's how he looks now. Don't tell me that the pig might look good after we apply lipstick for 3 years.

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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JJ has his shortcomings as a ROLB, but it's due more to being a rookie then a lack of ability.

In a 5-10 yd window JJ has shown a lot of explosiveness and quickness the reason he's missed out on sacks.

Andy Dalton
Geno Smith
Terrelle Pryor

All should have been sacked by JJ on a play we've all seen. JJ is a player who is a sacks in bunches type of player. I expect as the season moves forward for JJ to start showing his true ability.
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Dcash4


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the reason that defensive players have a tough time starting on this defense.

Rookies react to what they see, not what they know. They get away with being better than everyone for the most part from grade school through college. Its the growing pains of being welcomed into the NFL, where EVERYBODY is good and small things matter.

You can see it during a few plays during the Raiders game. JJ has outside contain on a particular play, sees Pryor step up and away from Jones side, so Jarvis reacts, and loses outside contain. Pryor changes directions, and goes around a now walled off JJ for a big gain and a first down.

It happens to young guys. Its what Tomlin means by "detailed" work. Sometimes doing, and learning the little things seem silly since you have gotten away with never doing so before- then you realize why you need to on this level.
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RandomHero


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the INT's the defense got in the Jets game, if it was held onto a second longer it would have been a sack for Jones.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandomHero wrote:
One of the INT's the defense got in the Jets game, if it was held onto a second longer it would have been a sack for Jones.


= Disruption.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well hopefully Jones lives up to the optimism everyone is displaying here. Reminds me of 2011, when the Ziggy defenders will still defending him hard and heavy.

It is early. If anything, Jones can hit the weight room and develop some serious strength to go along with his hands and that should help him.
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ShooterMcGavin


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes, sorry, wrong thread Laughing
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
JJ has his shortcomings as a ROLB, but it's due more to being a rookie then a lack of ability.

In a 5-10 yd window JJ has shown a lot of explosiveness and quickness the reason he's missed out on sacks.

Andy Dalton
Geno Smith
Terrelle Pryor

All should have been sacked by JJ on a play we've all seen. JJ is a player who is a sacks in bunches type of player. I expect as the season moves forward for JJ to start showing his true ability.
i agree with this, but if Worilds is taking his job, we may not see him have those "sacks in bunches," until next year.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People really should stop mistaken Jarvis Jones for a possible next great pass rusher, as our ROLB in THIS scheme, it ain't happening.

Show me where his explosiveness shows? Youtube? Gametape? Which game this season? I guarantee you those were because he's unblocked; STILL 0 sack on season. Worilds is the second best edge pass-rusher and I have said it before. Move Jarvis Jones or CHANGE how we play our 3-4 scheme then yes I will be on Jarvis Jones bandwagon. Heck I love his style, he'd be an all-pro OLB in scheme like Houston's or New Orleans'.

Problem? People don't see that our own coaching staffs already have failed those players. John Mitchell no longer seem like an expert at developing D-line. Now Kevin Butler seem really overrated as a LB coach.

That's why I'm high on Khalil Mack- unlike Jarvis Jones, Mack actually is pretty good at edge pass-rushing and is playing in same scheme at Buffalo as we are. Georgia? Completely different kind of 3-4 scheme.
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