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Sack Exchange


Joined: 21 Oct 2013
Posts: 25
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Hill Reply with quote

I agree the Jets need to find a way to get the ball in his hands and maximize his athletic gifts. As some of you has said, utilizing his freaky 40 inch vertical for jump balls in the red zone is one but I would also like to add what about getting Hill the ball on screen passes much like the Broncos did with Thomas for a TD against the Redskins. Maybe the guy will never be the greatest route runner, but I say just get him the ball in his hands and let his 4.3 speed go!!
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ekill08x


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 8528
Location: Patchogue, New York
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Hill Reply with quote

Sack Exchange wrote:
I agree the Jets need to find a way to get the ball in his hands and maximize his athletic gifts. As some of you has said, utilizing his freaky 40 inch vertical for jump balls in the red zone is one but I would also like to add what about getting Hill the ball on screen passes much like the Broncos did with Thomas for a TD against the Redskins. Maybe the guy will never be the greatest route runner, but I say just get him the ball in his hands and let his 4.3 speed go!!


See and this is where i disagree with everyone. Hill needs to utilize his gifts. Ive never once seen him out jump a defend and extend his arm vertically to catch a ball. He still tries to use his body. He still struggles to separate himself from defenders unless hes running in a straight line. I have serious concerns about Hill moving forward. The fact that David Nelson has been more productive in the last 2 games then Hill has in the last 4, without Hills speed and athletic ability is really kind of alarming. I'm not comfortable going into the season next year with him as a number 1 or 2.
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K-Ro 25


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 278
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Hill Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
Sack Exchange wrote:
I agree the Jets need to find a way to get the ball in his hands and maximize his athletic gifts. As some of you has said, utilizing his freaky 40 inch vertical for jump balls in the red zone is one but I would also like to add what about getting Hill the ball on screen passes much like the Broncos did with Thomas for a TD against the Redskins. Maybe the guy will never be the greatest route runner, but I say just get him the ball in his hands and let his 4.3 speed go!!


See and this is where i disagree with everyone. Hill needs to utilize his gifts. Ive never once seen him out jump a defend and extend his arm vertically to catch a ball. He still tries to use his body. He still struggles to separate himself from defenders unless hes running in a straight line. I have serious concerns about Hill moving forward. The fact that David Nelson has been more productive in the last 2 games then Hill has in the last 4, without Hills speed and athletic ability is really kind of alarming. I'm not comfortable going into the season next year with him as a number 1 or 2.


Finally a voice of reason. And people need to stop posting his stats with excuses.. Penalties happen to every player. His decent stats are due to the little mouths we have to feed on offense, and the way MM schemes players open.

Hill is nothing but a Madden player. His H/W/S means NOTHING when he never uses his body on defenders, never catches balls at highest point, never puts a move on a defender. The guy is a #WR on a Championship caliber team..

Holmes/Kerley/Nelson are all better than him too.
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Davey


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

April 27th, 2012: "We just drafted one of the most talented players in the draft, but it may take a few years for him to become a legitimately polished NFL receiver, playing in a triple option and doing nothing but running go-routes in college."

October 2013: WHY DID WE DRAFT THAT BUST RECEIVER IN THE SECOND ROUND LAST YEAR
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 42918
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey wrote:
April 27th, 2012: "We just drafted one of the most talented players in the draft, but it may take a few years for him to become a legitimately polished NFL receiver, playing in a triple option and doing nothing but running go-routes in college."

October 2013: WHY DID WE DRAFT THAT BUST RECEIVER IN THE SECOND ROUND LAST YEAR

Hill has been exactly what I expected him to be once we drafted him.

And I was very high on him. I saw him as a mid-late first round prospect.
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K-Ro 25


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 278
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
Davey wrote:
April 27th, 2012: "We just drafted one of the most talented players in the draft, but it may take a few years for him to become a legitimately polished NFL receiver, playing in a triple option and doing nothing but running go-routes in college."

October 2013: WHY DID WE DRAFT THAT BUST RECEIVER IN THE SECOND ROUND LAST YEAR

Hill has been exactly what I expected him to be once we drafted him.

And I was very high on him. I saw him as a mid-late first round prospect.


You do realize he lacks natural football instincts that WR's don't just pickup.. right? DT showed promise his 2nd year, just Tebow couldn't throw outside the #'s or on DT type routes.

If this is what you expected out of a top 40 pick, you're nuts.

Alshon Jeffery is already playing at the level we can only hope Hill reaches one day.
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Davey


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, Bent from TJB who breaks down the game every week and watches all-22, had this to say about Hill when asked a question about him in this week's BGA Extra.

Quote:
Back to the first part of your question, I think teams have started to gameplan for Hill and now itís up to the Jets to capitalize on this. Winslow and Holmes being out makes a massive difference to their ability to do that. Lack of deep balls is always down to some combination of playcalling, receivers not being open and the quarterback being gunshy. Iíve seen Hill get behind enough defenders this year to know that teams will recognize heís a threat.


I've said it before, but when you look at Kerley, who has killed it on third down and has worked mostly underneath and working crossing routes, this lines up with that logic.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
Posts: 1208
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Hill's game will get better as Geno gets better. Geno is a rookie so if Kerley is open on a quick slant for 6yds he's going to throw that rather than the 30yd bomb to Hill, b/c Geno is trying to cut down on his mistakes. So the more confidence we see in Geno's ability to stretch the field the more it suits Hill's game. That being said, Hill needs to expand his game where he is affective in more than just a stretch the field type role. This might be the lack of confidence MM has in him, but I'd like to see Hill get the ball more on bubble screens and slant type routes.
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 42918
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/30884/stephen-hill-claims-hes-not-frustrated?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Which one of you is Rich Cimini incognito?
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 11380
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K-Ro 25 wrote:
green24 wrote:
Davey wrote:
April 27th, 2012: "We just drafted one of the most talented players in the draft, but it may take a few years for him to become a legitimately polished NFL receiver, playing in a triple option and doing nothing but running go-routes in college."

October 2013: WHY DID WE DRAFT THAT BUST RECEIVER IN THE SECOND ROUND LAST YEAR

Hill has been exactly what I expected him to be once we drafted him.

And I was very high on him. I saw him as a mid-late first round prospect.


You do realize he lacks natural football instincts that WR's don't just pickup.. right? DT showed promise his 2nd year, just Tebow couldn't throw outside the #'s or on DT type routes.

If this is what you expected out of a top 40 pick, you're nuts.

Alshon Jeffery is already playing at the level we can only hope Hill reaches one day.


What do you mean by natural instinct?
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quietjetsket wrote:
skrILL wrote:

Care to offer some sort of insight instead of just being obnoxious? Rolling Eyes
I don't.

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Davey


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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/30884/stephen-hill-claims-hes-not-frustrated?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Which one of you is Rich Cimini incognito?


Don't insult me like that. Laughing
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captainhags


Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 768
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamorange wrote:
K-Ro 25 wrote:
green24 wrote:
Davey wrote:
April 27th, 2012: "We just drafted one of the most talented players in the draft, but it may take a few years for him to become a legitimately polished NFL receiver, playing in a triple option and doing nothing but running go-routes in college."

October 2013: WHY DID WE DRAFT THAT BUST RECEIVER IN THE SECOND ROUND LAST YEAR

Hill has been exactly what I expected him to be once we drafted him.

And I was very high on him. I saw him as a mid-late first round prospect.


You do realize he lacks natural football instincts that WR's don't just pickup.. right? DT showed promise his 2nd year, just Tebow couldn't throw outside the #'s or on DT type routes.

If this is what you expected out of a top 40 pick, you're nuts.

Alshon Jeffery is already playing at the level we can only hope Hill reaches one day.


What do you mean by natural instinct?


I assume he's talking about stuff like: knowing how to settle into soft spots in zone coverage, attacking the football in the air, coming back to the ball, being aware when Geno is scrambling, etc.

Assuming he never picks up those skills, Morningweg needs to figure out a way to get the ball in his hands in space. Take a page out of the Demaryius Thomas playbook and run WR screens. Run crossing routes 10 yds deep.
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Rockice_8


Joined: 05 Oct 2010
Posts: 2042
Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Hill Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
Sack Exchange wrote:
I agree the Jets need to find a way to get the ball in his hands and maximize his athletic gifts. As some of you has said, utilizing his freaky 40 inch vertical for jump balls in the red zone is one but I would also like to add what about getting Hill the ball on screen passes much like the Broncos did with Thomas for a TD against the Redskins. Maybe the guy will never be the greatest route runner, but I say just get him the ball in his hands and let his 4.3 speed go!!


See and this is where i disagree with everyone. Hill needs to utilize his gifts. Ive never once seen him out jump a defend and extend his arm vertically to catch a ball. He still tries to use his body. He still struggles to separate himself from defenders unless hes running in a straight line. I have serious concerns about Hill moving forward. The fact that David Nelson has been more productive in the last 2 games then Hill has in the last 4, without Hills speed and athletic ability is really kind of alarming. I'm not comfortable going into the season next year with him as a number 1 or 2.


I agree to an extent here. Yes he never goes up and gets the ball at it's highest point and he struggles to separate from press coverage but Hill has a place in this league. Where he was drafted you would hope that he could become a #2 WR and it still may happen. He was nothing but a physical specimen coming out. He was completely raw and just a freak to mold.

He's improved from year 1 to year 2 so there is no reason to think he's done improving. It is however a slower process than we all had hoped. Even if he doesn't improve more he's still a decent enough #3 WR or better off as a good #4. He's getting singled out here because we don't have a #1 WR or #1 TE. If we had them Hill could settle into his role better.

His ability alone to blow the top off the D is 100% worthy of keeping him around. Just wish we'd go ahead and utilize it more. All we need is 1 or 2 big plays out of him a game. We need to realize what he is at this point and take advantage of his strengths.

I'm not down on Hill as much as some. It's not like he's getting targeted a ton and not making plays, he just hasn't even been targeted much. The lack of talent on offense puts more focus on him which he just can't handle at this point. Maybe it's his lack of separation as to why he's not getting open or maybe Geno just isn't looking his way. I'd need to have someone watch each one of his routes to see. Still if all he ever becomes is a deep threat he's still worth keeping around because he can flat out run the fly with the best of them.
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Wilkasaur


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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Location: SUNY & Long Island
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey wrote:
April 27th, 2012: "We just drafted one of the most talented players in the draft, but it may take a few years for him to become a legitimately polished NFL receiver, playing in a triple option and doing nothing but running go-routes in college."

October 2013: WHY DID WE DRAFT THAT BUST RECEIVER IN THE SECOND ROUND LAST YEAR


This, a hundred times this. Hill is still only just 22 years old, he has plenty of time to grow into a solid number two and even has the potential to become that number 1 guy if he becomes more physical and fights for the ball more.

While I'll agree he has disappeared some. One of those reasons has to be that defenses defiantly recognize that he has been our only home run threat, with Holmes being injured. He has already surpassed his numbers from last year, barely I know but it's still improvement. Plus we got the second half of the season to go, and we're getting reloaded on Offense heading into Buffalo. I can only think that Hill will get better with K2, Cumby, and Holmes on the field with him.

I don't really see the point on giving up on him yet, especially when we came into this year knowing that we are a young and rebuilding team.
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Jetsman82


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 19684
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my favorite misconceptions about raw players like Hill is people act like he just picked up the sport and started playing in college.

This is not like Gholston, who started playing football barely five years before being drafted. Hill has been playing football all his life, he just didn't go to a prolific passing school, so some of the nuances of the game are not quite there yet. The numbers may not be there, but if you pay attention, you'll see it's night and day from last year to this year.
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