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W8 GDT: Arizona Cardinals (3-4) vs. Atlanta Falcons (2-4)
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 6381
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
I'm not going to respond to most of that drivel, but three things caught my eye:

- TD taking Ryan wasn't an easy choice at all. Ryan was considered a meh prospect and most Falcon fans wanted Glenn Dorsey and Brian Brohm. Same with analysts (besides Mayock). TD pulled the trigger on Ryan and it worked out in the long run.

- Very, very few GMs would have the cajones to pull off that trade for Julio. Very, very few.

- Spoon is a top-5 4-3 OLB when healthy. Before this, he's missed only a few games. That's not injury prone.


Ryan was the #1 QB prospect in 2008. What are you talking about? Just because Falcons fans wanted someone doesn't change the fact that prospect and talent wise Ryan was projected to be the #1 QB and they were right. Where is Brohm now? That pick was not difficult at all. Falcons had no QB. They had to take that chance.

Very very few GM's would not do that because it isn't smart. You don't win in this league by giving away draft picks. People always said TD comes from the Pats organization and does things the Pats way. Well from his drafting philosophy doesnt seem that way. Pats collect picks. Falcons seem to give them away.


Tampa won 10 year ago doing that very thing... Response?


The fact that you use one team as an example proves my point and your ignorance. Tampa Bay's core players that helped win them that superbowl: Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Quarles, Kelly and Jackson were all drafted by the Bucs. Most of there Defensive starters were draft picks by the organization. And that SB team was known for their Defense not Offense.

Which proves my point. You win by building in the draft. If you didn't Daniel Snyder would have 3-4 SB rings by now. He is the king of mortgaging draft picks for players and bringing in FA's. Drafting is def a gamble but you have a good to great draft year by year if you want to stay relevant.


Dude, you just said you don't win I. The league by giving away draft picks, that example goes directly against that statement. As does Eli and the giant. And are you now asserting the falcons haven't built through the draft?

It also very irrelevant whether that team was known for defense offense.
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tech2186


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 4505
Location: Dawg House
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
I'm not going to respond to most of that drivel, but three things caught my eye:

- TD taking Ryan wasn't an easy choice at all. Ryan was considered a meh prospect and most Falcon fans wanted Glenn Dorsey and Brian Brohm. Same with analysts (besides Mayock). TD pulled the trigger on Ryan and it worked out in the long run.

- Very, very few GMs would have the cajones to pull off that trade for Julio. Very, very few.

- Spoon is a top-5 4-3 OLB when healthy. Before this, he's missed only a few games. That's not injury prone.


Ryan was the #1 QB prospect in 2008. What are you talking about? Just because Falcons fans wanted someone doesn't change the fact that prospect and talent wise Ryan was projected to be the #1 QB and they were right. Where is Brohm now? That pick was not difficult at all. Falcons had no QB. They had to take that chance.

Very very few GM's would not do that because it isn't smart. You don't win in this league by giving away draft picks. People always said TD comes from the Pats organization and does things the Pats way. Well from his drafting philosophy doesnt seem that way. Pats collect picks. Falcons seem to give them away.


Tampa won 10 year ago doing that very thing... Response?


The fact that you use one team as an example proves my point and your ignorance. Tampa Bay's core players that helped win them that superbowl: Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Quarles, Kelly and Jackson were all drafted by the Bucs. Most of there Defensive starters were draft picks by the organization. And that SB team was known for their Defense not Offense.

Which proves my point. You win by building in the draft. If you didn't Daniel Snyder would have 3-4 SB rings by now. He is the king of mortgaging draft picks for players and bringing in FA's. Drafting is def a gamble but you have a good to great draft year by year if you want to stay relevant.


Dude, you just said you don't win I. The league by giving away draft picks, that example goes directly against that statement. As does Eli and the giant. And are you now asserting the falcons haven't built through the draft?

It also very irrelevant whether that team was known for defense offense.


We have not built adequate depth through the draft. We have not had the picks to do so because we have given them away for whatever reason. That is a true statement.
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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4655
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
I'm not going to respond to most of that drivel, but three things caught my eye:

- TD taking Ryan wasn't an easy choice at all. Ryan was considered a meh prospect and most Falcon fans wanted Glenn Dorsey and Brian Brohm. Same with analysts (besides Mayock). TD pulled the trigger on Ryan and it worked out in the long run.

- Very, very few GMs would have the cajones to pull off that trade for Julio. Very, very few.

- Spoon is a top-5 4-3 OLB when healthy. Before this, he's missed only a few games. That's not injury prone.


Ryan was the #1 QB prospect in 2008. What are you talking about? Just because Falcons fans wanted someone doesn't change the fact that prospect and talent wise Ryan was projected to be the #1 QB and they were right. Where is Brohm now? That pick was not difficult at all. Falcons had no QB. They had to take that chance.

Very very few GM's would not do that because it isn't smart. You don't win in this league by giving away draft picks. People always said TD comes from the Pats organization and does things the Pats way. Well from his drafting philosophy doesnt seem that way. Pats collect picks. Falcons seem to give them away.


Tampa won 10 year ago doing that very thing... Response?


The fact that you use one team as an example proves my point and your ignorance. Tampa Bay's core players that helped win them that superbowl: Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Quarles, Kelly and Jackson were all drafted by the Bucs. Most of there Defensive starters were draft picks by the organization. And that SB team was known for their Defense not Offense.

Which proves my point. You win by building in the draft. If you didn't Daniel Snyder would have 3-4 SB rings by now. He is the king of mortgaging draft picks for players and bringing in FA's. Drafting is def a gamble but you have a good to great draft year by year if you want to stay relevant.


Dude, you just said you don't win I. The league by giving away draft picks, that example goes directly against that statement. As does Eli and the giant. And are you now asserting the falcons haven't built through the draft?

It also very irrelevant whether that team was known for defense offense.
This team is lacking and the o and dlines are just horrible. That's a fact. Whats your argument? Its not TD's fault..... it's not Mike Smith's fault...... It's NEVER Ryans fault. Whos fault is it? Are you blaming this entire debacle on injuries?? Puleeze! We had most of these same problems last year, but everyone overlooked em because we were winning all of those close games(a lot of luck btw) AB is just giving money away to over the hill free agents. Ray Edwards, Osi, Jackson, resigning Sam freakin Baker, etc......... And none of them are working out. And remember, they were the ones hollering SB or bust when they knew our o and d lines were suspect. And that's with Baker and Johnson, or without em. Some one has to be held accountable. Just how it is. We look horrible out there. Depth is bad. Coaching is suspect. I mean damn.

Last edited by terrell123 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:12 pm; edited 3 times in total
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 6381
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
I'm not going to respond to most of that drivel, but three things caught my eye:

- TD taking Ryan wasn't an easy choice at all. Ryan was considered a meh prospect and most Falcon fans wanted Glenn Dorsey and Brian Brohm. Same with analysts (besides Mayock). TD pulled the trigger on Ryan and it worked out in the long run.

- Very, very few GMs would have the cajones to pull off that trade for Julio. Very, very few.

- Spoon is a top-5 4-3 OLB when healthy. Before this, he's missed only a few games. That's not injury prone.


Ryan was the #1 QB prospect in 2008. What are you talking about? Just because Falcons fans wanted someone doesn't change the fact that prospect and talent wise Ryan was projected to be the #1 QB and they were right. Where is Brohm now? That pick was not difficult at all. Falcons had no QB. They had to take that chance.

Very very few GM's would not do that because it isn't smart. You don't win in this league by giving away draft picks. People always said TD comes from the Pats organization and does things the Pats way. Well from his drafting philosophy doesnt seem that way. Pats collect picks. Falcons seem to give them away.


Tampa won 10 year ago doing that very thing... Response?


The fact that you use one team as an example proves my point and your ignorance. Tampa Bay's core players that helped win them that superbowl: Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Quarles, Kelly and Jackson were all drafted by the Bucs. Most of there Defensive starters were draft picks by the organization. And that SB team was known for their Defense not Offense.

Which proves my point. You win by building in the draft. If you didn't Daniel Snyder would have 3-4 SB rings by now. He is the king of mortgaging draft picks for players and bringing in FA's. Drafting is def a gamble but you have a good to great draft year by year if you want to stay relevant.


Dude, you just said you don't win I. The league by giving away draft picks, that example goes directly against that statement. As does Eli and the giant. And are you now asserting the falcons haven't built through the draft?

It also very irrelevant whether that team was known for defense offense.


We have not built adequate depth through the draft. We have not had the picks to do so because we have given them away for whatever reason. That is a true statement.


actually its not, but when faced with actual facts, abandon your argument and move on to the next wrong one. Works for me.
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tech2186


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 4505
Location: Dawg House
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
I'm not going to respond to most of that drivel, but three things caught my eye:

- TD taking Ryan wasn't an easy choice at all. Ryan was considered a meh prospect and most Falcon fans wanted Glenn Dorsey and Brian Brohm. Same with analysts (besides Mayock). TD pulled the trigger on Ryan and it worked out in the long run.

- Very, very few GMs would have the cajones to pull off that trade for Julio. Very, very few.

- Spoon is a top-5 4-3 OLB when healthy. Before this, he's missed only a few games. That's not injury prone.


Ryan was the #1 QB prospect in 2008. What are you talking about? Just because Falcons fans wanted someone doesn't change the fact that prospect and talent wise Ryan was projected to be the #1 QB and they were right. Where is Brohm now? That pick was not difficult at all. Falcons had no QB. They had to take that chance.

Very very few GM's would not do that because it isn't smart. You don't win in this league by giving away draft picks. People always said TD comes from the Pats organization and does things the Pats way. Well from his drafting philosophy doesnt seem that way. Pats collect picks. Falcons seem to give them away.


Tampa won 10 year ago doing that very thing... Response?


The fact that you use one team as an example proves my point and your ignorance. Tampa Bay's core players that helped win them that superbowl: Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, Barber, Quarles, Kelly and Jackson were all drafted by the Bucs. Most of there Defensive starters were draft picks by the organization. And that SB team was known for their Defense not Offense.

Which proves my point. You win by building in the draft. If you didn't Daniel Snyder would have 3-4 SB rings by now. He is the king of mortgaging draft picks for players and bringing in FA's. Drafting is def a gamble but you have a good to great draft year by year if you want to stay relevant.


Dude, you just said you don't win I. The league by giving away draft picks, that example goes directly against that statement. As does Eli and the giant. And are you now asserting the falcons haven't built through the draft?

It also very irrelevant whether that team was known for defense offense.


We have not built adequate depth through the draft. We have not had the picks to do so because we have given them away for whatever reason. That is a true statement.


actually its not, but when faced with actual facts, abandon your argument and move on to the next wrong one. Works for me.


You're right. It's no one's fault this team is a train wreck this year. The injury bug must be the reason! Whatever works right?
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Deadeye


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5998
Location: A Nearby Dolphin Encounter
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes trading picks to move into the upper first round, doing so for a franchise QB is acceptable. The Eli Manning example and possibly the RG3 example demonstrate that such moves are worth while. Doing similar trades for any other position is less effective.

This Falcon team has seen it's o-line and d-line needs neglected for the likes of Julio and Trufant. While those two players are excellent, they do not and can not make up for the lack of production in the trenches. Dimitrov built a house of cards that was bound to collapse, and the 2013 Falcons are the inevitable result.

I love Julio Jones, that dude is so physically imposing it's scary. But whenever fans discuss Julio or players like him (Megatron, Dez, AJ Green, etc.), there is always built in assumption that WRs like that are necessary for winning Super Bowls. That premise is faulty. I can't think of a single team in the last decade to win a SB being lead by a top WR stud. But I've seen multiple teams win it all with a large group of above-average WRs.

I don't know if Smitty or TD need to go. But I do know the Falcons need to start exercising numerous picks on the o-line. They need an influx of high and mid-round picks to begin the process of rebuilding that unit. Once there's been some talent infused there, shift to the d-line. It's painful because it takes so long, but Ryan and Julio are still young and if they make the right picks they'll have another 5 playoff appearances at the end Ryan's career.
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