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A look into our offensive line....
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.


TBF his "rookie" year was a complete wash. Guy never dressed and was there to work on mechanics, working under center, etc. No preseason action either. Missed a good amount of football time before he was in the supplemental draft.

His 2nd year should have been his actual rookie year. Saw one useless snap before he started the final game of the season. 3rd string all season until Palmer went down.

Its technically his 3rd year, but really his 2nd .It's a due or die time situation for him regardless given the crop of young QBs coming in the draft. He has the rest of the season to show the staff that he can be built around.


So working on mechanics and being under center is not progression in his development? Just trying to figure out where you're coming from.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'll give him more slack than Jtagg, but he does have a point: Pryor is in his 3rd year; he should be further ahead in that department.


He didn't go through a full TC his rookie year. He was the 3rd string QB until the last game of the 2012 season. He wasn't even the designated backup coming into TC this year. That's where all this 3 year thing just doesn't make sense. The Raiders haven't invested much time into developing this player until 2 months ago. It usually takes a couple years for the game to slow down for young QBs. Pryor is going through the same issues but he won't be given as much time because he's just a 3rd round pick by the former regime. For now, he's the ticket to buy Dennis Allen one more year.


OK so Pryor just sat on a stool in the corner and never did anything those couple years?? I don't get what you're saying. He was practicing, he was w/ teammates, he was in meetings, he was doing all sorts of things to help him better himself as a QB..... unless he really was just sitting on a stool in the corner of the room then I guess you have a point.


How many reps do you think the 3rd string QB is getting during the regular season? How much attention is the coaching staff gonna give to a QB they have no plan for? Pryor wasn't supposed to become the starter. Al Davis probably envisioned that but he died soon after.


I would expect they get some. I mean, these guys get paid a lot of money for being on a roster. They have some sort of work they have to accomplish, correct? They still have workout obligations, practice obligations, and many others, correct? They're working to get that starting spot. I can't envision he just sat around and did nothing. Whether he was expected to be the starter or not, we've learned his determination wasn't going to limit him to just sitting there. He was working to get better in all aspects of the game on and off the field. This is his third year no matter how you slice it.
I hope you say the same things when Tyler Wilson stinks it up, if he ever shows enough to get a chance.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
how do you expect a qb to get his read game better without playing time and practice snaps?


Like every other back up: use the limited snaps you get, and in the film room. Like I said, I'm not expecting MVP level of play but I figured he'd be better at making reads. He was a big time D1 QB and got to sit and study the game since we drafted him. We didn't just lock him in a room in isolation while other players practiced and watched film, he was there too. I just thought he'd be further along by now is all. I said I'm cool with it as long as he keeps improving, but people decided to continue to come at me due to my expectations.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:

+1

This QB class is full of athletes masquerading as QBs, tantalizing athleticism but wanting accuracy. Provided he declares I would use a mid-round pick on Wyoming's Brett Smith. Right now Hackenberg is the prospect I'm high on long term.


I think some are better QBs than athletes but that's just me. More importantly, I'm all about value more than anything. I wouldn't be opposed to letting Wilson or McGloin get a shot before anything is determined w/ our QB situation as I've stated many times. I just worry we'd miss something for nothing. I would prefer they get that chance prior to the year ending so we can see what it looks like. I am completely on board w/ Hackenberg though as I said in another thread. He's going to be very good. I'll be getting a very good look at him this weekend against OSU.


so im going to assume the difference in your opinion from last year and this year is you thought palmer was going to be a reliable qb for us for a while. Dont really understand wanting to see mcgloin or wilson if all you care about is wins. Pryor gives us the best chance to win. Thats the only person you should want to play at this point. This is all based on things you have said during the debates.


B/c Palmer was an is the best option for QB for this team. How do you know Pryor is the best chance for victories?


the same reason you thought palmer was last year. The coaches are starting pryor. If somebody gave us a better chance vs the steelers coaches would be starting him.
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BlackPrestige92


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting take on our O-Line. I've never looked at it that way Laughing

That Pryor guy, I tell ya!
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In training camp, third string QB's get limited reps with other 3rd stringers/camp fodder. When the season begins, third string QB's get zero reps at all in practice. IF they are lucky, they get to throw to the scout team. Their biggest role is to observe & go over the plays in the meeting room. Very little time is spent with them as coaches are 100% focused on preparing the players for the next game. I believe it was Gannon who recently said coaches (even assistants) don't spend any time teaching fundamentals during the season. He was also speaking about Pryor in this regard.

I honestly shake my head every time I read someone say "Pryor is in his 3rd year" as a means to say he should be better/more seasoned. He was virtually just a live body until just recently when they decided to try & develop him.
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Professor Oak


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
how do you expect a qb to get his read game better without playing time and practice snaps?


Like every other back up: use the limited snaps you get, and in the film room. Like I said, I'm not expecting MVP level of play but I figured he'd be better at making reads. He was a big time D1 QB and got to sit and study the game since we drafted him. We didn't just lock him in a room in isolation while other players practiced and watched film, he was there too. I just thought he'd be further along by now is all. I said I'm cool with it as long as he keeps improving, but people decided to continue to come at me due to my expectations.

You can sit in a room all day and study all the film you want. It won't make you any better when it comes to making reads. Actually getting onto the field and gaining experience is the only way you can grow in that regard. Until you actually go out and do something - you will never learn how to do it. Respect the process.

If you expected Pryor to be better than what we've seen so far, then I can tell you right now that your expectations were way too high. For someone as flawed as he was, he's been fairly impressive thus far. Everyone from the media to the fans are surprised with how Pryor has looked. Everyone including myself expected him to be a lot worse.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:

+1

This QB class is full of athletes masquerading as QBs, tantalizing athleticism but wanting accuracy. Provided he declares I would use a mid-round pick on Wyoming's Brett Smith. Right now Hackenberg is the prospect I'm high on long term.


I think some are better QBs than athletes but that's just me. More importantly, I'm all about value more than anything. I wouldn't be opposed to letting Wilson or McGloin get a shot before anything is determined w/ our QB situation as I've stated many times. I just worry we'd miss something for nothing. I would prefer they get that chance prior to the year ending so we can see what it looks like. I am completely on board w/ Hackenberg though as I said in another thread. He's going to be very good. I'll be getting a very good look at him this weekend against OSU.


so im going to assume the difference in your opinion from last year and this year is you thought palmer was going to be a reliable qb for us for a while. Dont really understand wanting to see mcgloin or wilson if all you care about is wins. Pryor gives us the best chance to win. Thats the only person you should want to play at this point. This is all based on things you have said during the debates.


B/c Palmer was an is the best option for QB for this team. How do you know Pryor is the best chance for victories?


the same reason you thought palmer was last year. The coaches are starting pryor. If somebody gave us a better chance vs the steelers coaches would be starting him.


I can agree w/ that. Good to see we've found a common ground. I'd be willing to bet last year, we wouldn't have.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Oak wrote:
In training camp, third string QB's get limited reps with other 3rd stringers/camp fodder. When the season begins, third string QB's get zero reps at all in practice. IF they are lucky, they get to throw to the scout team. Their biggest role is to observe & go over the plays in the meeting room. Very little time is spent with them as coaches are 100% focused on preparing the players for the next game. I believe it was Gannon who recently said coaches (even assistants) don't spend any time teaching fundamentals during the season. He was also speaking about Pryor in this regard.

I honestly shake my head every time I read someone say "Pryor is in his 3rd year" as a means to say he should be better/more seasoned. He was virtually just a live body until just recently when they decided to try & develop him.


The point is, they're still learning and gaining reps regardless of who it's w/. There are players who have evolved into starters from the 3rd string spot. Getting reps no matter whom they're w/ and learning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not getting reps and not learning.

It's Pryor's third year no matter how you slice it. Sorry. Now it might not be as much as McGloin is getting now but it doesn't matter. It still happened.
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G


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackPrestige92 wrote:
Interesting take on our O-Line. I've never looked at it that way Laughing

That Pryor guy, I tell ya!


We will have 4 QB's take snaps this year as Pryor will get injured behind our Oline and so will the back-ups...
I'm just glad we got rid of Flynn. Paid tooo much to 'mope'
It will be interesting when JV gets back, maybe Watson can get RT and when Pryor gets back from the injury that is bound to happen, we'll see how he does with a few seconds of pocket time.
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Since I'm apparently sooooo stupid for suggesting players on the 53 man roster don't get to practice or develop at all, please do me a favor, since you seem to know precisely what goes on, and point me to a valid source that shows me exactly what a 3rd string QB does over the course of the year.

I want to be proven wrong. Please do it. Seriously.


They run scout team for the D, and are hopefully in the film room a lot so they can give advice to the starter.

do they get reps and coaching, absolutely.. but most of the coaching they get are in QB drills, throwing motion, 3 step drops, ect... they dont get a lot of work in practice reps were you have WRs DBs, ect.

This is the reason so many backup Qbs stick around the league for awhile. If you are smart enough, and can help 'mentor' the starter, or be another set of eyes for him on the field, then you have tremendous worth to an organization.

Brady Quinn, just got cut, but is the only example i can think of right now, I can find more if you like... but there is a reason guys like this stick around where as qbs like Russell dont.

Brady Quinn is a student of the game, and can help his teams starter on the sideline.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Since I'm apparently sooooo stupid for suggesting players on the 53 man roster don't get to practice or develop at all, please do me a favor, since you seem to know precisely what goes on, and point me to a valid source that shows me exactly what a 3rd string QB does over the course of the year.

I want to be proven wrong. Please do it. Seriously.


They run scout team for the D, and are hopefully in the film room a lot so they can give advice to the starter.

do they get reps and coaching, absolutely.. but most of the coaching they get are in QB drills, throwing motion, 3 step drops, ect... they dont get a lot of work in practice reps were you have WRs DBs, ect.

This is the reason so many backup Qbs stick around the league for awhile. If you are smart enough, and can help 'mentor' the starter, or be another set of eyes for him on the field, then you have tremendous worth to an organization.

Brady Quinn, just got cut, but is the only example i can think of right now, I can find more if you like... but there is a reason guys like this stick around where as qbs like Russell dont.

Brady Quinn is a student of the game, and can help his teams starter on the sideline.


Thank you for confirming they get to work on things and apparently just aren't sitting around doing nothing like some people seem to think. I understand they don't get as much work as the first team guys and there's a reason for that but they do get exposure, they do get work outs in, they do get coached, and they do get to know the team and the speed of the game to an extent. The notion they do nothing is just silly.

I thought Quinn would be a good QB in this league, not going to lie. I think his confidence really got shot in Cleveland to the point where he'll never recover. Nothing about his game now looked like it did at ND. Oh well, it happens. David Carr is another prime example. All the physical talent in the world, just took a beating mentally and physically.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiz is back practicing so that is good. Pashos with trainer on side looks close as well.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
Wiz is back practicing so that is good. Pashos with trainer on side looks close as well.

lol you know there has been a lot of injuries when you are excited that you might get your 2nd/3rd string RT back.
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raidr4life


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
Wiz is back practicing so that is good. Pashos with trainer on side looks close as well.

lol you know there has been a lot of injuries when you are excited that you might get your 2nd/3rd string RT back.
What's so funny? Pashos was the starter at RT and was our best OLineman before he got hurt.
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