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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6233
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

Does Albert Haynesworth mean anything to you. He was the most physically gifted DT in the NFL He only played hard in contract years and after he got payed he didn't even try.
No one ever question Clowney's physical abilities, it's his mental makeup people worry about



Clowney isn't going to participate in the combine he's having an operation on his heel after this season.


Questions about Clowney's character have been completely overblown. I've watched every game of his and I see no distinguishable lack of interest. Yes, Clowney was noticeably gassed against UNC but so was the entire defense. Some of us only pay attention to the box score. Expecting 19+ sacks this season was ridiculous. Previous to the Vols game much of Clowney's impact did not translate to the boxscore. The major contributing factor to Clowney's breakout game was the way Tennessee attempted to play Clowney. With a talent like OT Antonio Richardson the Vols basically allowed him to operate on an island for 68 snaps and Clowney beat him like a drum. Everyone else ran away from Clowney.

Hypothetically, if Clowney is the JaMarcus Russell-esque mercenary you are suggesting he is the new rookie salary cap makes taking this risk much less of a detriment to the salary cap or the future of the team. For 6 seasons, possibly 7 if Clowney doesn't play his rookie season, the Raiders would reap the benefits of Clowney chasing the big money of veteran free agency. At that time the Raiders can determine Clowney's emotional investment in the team and either resign him or trade him for assets.

QB is THE most important position. However, desperation leads to mistakes and misjudgements. Clowney is the best prospect in a weak draft class, unless you are looking for an OT, and this QB class is completely overhyped.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3755
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
bitty wrote:

Does Albert Haynesworth mean anything to you. He was the most physically gifted DT in the NFL He only played hard in contract years and after he got payed he didn't even try.
No one ever question Clowney's physical abilities, it's his mental makeup people worry about



Clowney isn't going to participate in the combine he's having an operation on his heel after this season.


Questions about Clowney's character have been completely overblown. I've watched every game of his and I see no distinguishable lack of interest. Yes, Clowney was noticeably gassed against UNC but so was the entire defense. Some of us only pay attention to the box score. Expecting 19+ sacks this season was ridiculous. Previous to the Vols game much of Clowney's impact did not translate to the boxscore. The major contributing factor to Clowney's breakout game was the way Tennessee attempted to play Clowney. With a talent like OT Antonio Richardson the Vols basically allowed him to operate on an island for 68 snaps and Clowney beat him like a drum. Everyone else ran away from Clowney.

Hypothetically, if Clowney is the JaMarcus Russell-esque mercenary you are suggesting he is the new rookie salary cap makes taking this risk much less of a detriment to the salary cap or the future of the team. For 6 seasons, possibly 7 if Clowney doesn't play his rookie season, the Raiders would reap the benefits of Clowney chasing the big money of veteran free agency. At that time the Raiders can determine Clowney's emotional investment in the team and either resign him or trade him for assets.

QB is THE most important position. However, desperation leads to mistakes and misjudgements. Clowney is the best prospect in a weak draft class, unless you are looking for an OT, and this QB class is completely overhyped.


First off the Raiders have no chance of getting him, the giants will draft him. Second he's a great athletic talent but not a polished DE yet. He needs time to learn the NFL game, if he thinks is bad now in college wait until the NFL get him. In the NFL everybody gets chip, double-team, until he learns to deal with that he'll be an average player at best.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like we'll be drafting in the 8-12 range this season and I'd love to add Louis Nix III if he's available in the first round and then a guy like Gabe Jackson out of Mississippi State in the second round.
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Dat Raider


Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
It looks like we'll be drafting in the 8-12 range this season and I'd love to add Louis Nix III if he's available in the first round and then a guy like Gabe Jackson out of Mississippi State in the second round.


I would cry tears of joy.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

First off the Raiders have no chance of getting him, the giants will draft him. Second he's a great athletic talent but not a polished DE yet. He needs time to learn the NFL game, if he thinks is bad now in college wait until the NFL get him. In the NFL everybody gets chip, double-team, until he learns to deal with that he'll be an average player at best.


Is your argument that the Raiders won't be drafting Clowney or that if they do the Raiders should pass on him? I thought we were speaking hypothetically. One injury to the Raiders MOST important player and hello expansion team. How anyone can speak to where the Raiders will be drafting with confidence is beyond me.

None of these prospects are polished which is why they are called "rookies". AGAIN, there is more to the game than the boxscore. If Clowney is able to effect the game in the same intrinsic ways he has for the Gamecocks suspect defense he will be considered a star without posting a single stat. When was the last time the Raiders had a defensive lineman that had to be doubled EVERY time or schemed against? You defeated your own argument. Imagine what Traver could do with that if he's doing it with smoke and mirrors atm.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3755
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
bitty wrote:

First off the Raiders have no chance of getting him, the giants will draft him. Second he's a great athletic talent but not a polished DE yet. He needs time to learn the NFL game, if he thinks is bad now in college wait until the NFL get him. In the NFL everybody gets chip, double-team, until he learns to deal with that he'll be an average player at best.


Is your argument that the Raiders won't be drafting Clowney or that if they do the Raiders should pass on him? I thought we were speaking hypothetically. One injury to the Raiders MOST important player and hello expansion team. How anyone can speak to where the Raiders will be drafting with confidence is beyond me.

None of these prospects are polished which is why they are called "rookies". AGAIN, there is more to the game than the boxscore. If Clowney is able to effect the game in the same intrinsic ways he has for the Gamecocks suspect defense he will be considered a star without posting a single stat. When was the last time the Raiders had a defensive lineman that had to be doubled EVERY time or schemed against? You defeated your own argument. Imagine what Traver could do with that if he's doing it with smoke and mirrors atm.


He's not my first choice but if he checks out( and that's a big if) I would love to have him.
After watching him play this week there is no reason why he doesn't dominate every game this way. He's only thing holding himself back and that's what scares me.
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IdigtheRaiders!


Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 1214
Location: Modesto
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S&B Bleeder wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
IdigtheRaiders! wrote:
S&B Bleeder wrote:
This may not belong here but I watched the USC Notre Dame game yesterday. #1 Nix. DT. The widest guy I've seen in a long time. Always doubled teamed. Was I overly impressed or is he the real deal. I know we need Oline dudes but if he's what I think he is we could use him. Tell me there are better guys out there and I'll let it go.



When Nix is on top of his game, he's immovable as an NT and is a Center's worst nightmare. I'd take Clowney over him, but that's it. Would not mind seeing Irish Chocolate in Silver and Black at all.


This. I guess you could say I have been gravitating towards Nix lately Laughing . I would love to have him anchoring our defensive line and freeing up everyone around him.

big_palooka wrote:
I'd love to add Nicks. He was my fav the year we took the dreadful DHB. Wanted to trade down and draft Nicks or draft Crabtree at 8. Man DHB was a horribly awful selection and we all knew it at the time it happened.


Same here. Nicks was my favorite prospect that year. I wanted him very badly and I remember throwing my drink in my living room as soon as the commish said "Darr..." I would love to sign him this offseason.

Are we talking about the same Nix? Irish #1. DHB was years ago.
This guy is big. I won't attempt to guess his weight but would like to know. He's fast for his size and has good feet. I saw him move laterally and make a tackle when he had two guys all over him.


You (and I) are talking about Louis Nix. Big Palooka is referring to Hakeem Nicks and wanting to bring him in next year as a FA. Cool
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 6233
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

He's not my first choice but if he checks out( and that's a big if) I would love to have him.
After watching him play this week there is no reason why he doesn't dominate every game this way. He's only thing holding himself back and that's what scares me.



I'm talking to a wall. I'm just trying to get you to see ONE thing. Clowney's production was the result of HOW Tennessee attempted to defend Clowney. Very few teams have an OT like Antonio Richardson. Richardson won some but for the most part he got beat however UT won. I think Clowney & USC would much rather have UT commit more resources to shutting Clowney out to free up his teammates than lose. When Clowney gets doubled he's freeing up teammates PLEASE stop acting like nothing happened. Clowney's impact on the game despite the boxscore is well documented every week. When Clowney draws ALL that attention he IS doing his job. SOMETHING is happening.
_________________
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ryanTHEtrojan


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

Does Albert Haynesworth mean anything to you. He was the most physically gifted DT in the NFL He only played hard in contract years and after he got payed he didn't even try.
No one ever question Clowney's physical abilities, it's his mental makeup people worry about



Clowney isn't going to participate in the combine he's having an operation on his heel after this season.


Sorry, I realize I wrote a novel in my previous comment but I never once said I was ok with Clowney possibly tanking in order to maintain his health. I simply said I understand why he would. He hasnt (legitimately) made a dollar playing football, and in order to get a second contract, you have to earn a first. I agree with you about Haynesworth and all that potential, but he earned that contract (and when I say he earned it, I mean the Redskins were dumb enough to give it to him). Clowney hasnt proven anything in the NFL.

Even after saying all this, in no way am I saying that he even is tanking it. It is however a response to anyone who is questioning his mentality and how injured he really is, to which all I can say is, I understand it.

You are absolutely right though about his post-season heel surgery which will probably limit his participation, if any, at the combine. I guess with him though, teams are already aware of what he can do and his draft position is pretty much set in place, barring anything happening to him. Im assuming he is going to provide for his family as well, whereas guys like Andrew Luck weren't thinking about it as much.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
bitty wrote:

He's not my first choice but if he checks out( and that's a big if) I would love to have him.
After watching him play this week there is no reason why he doesn't dominate every game this way. He's only thing holding himself back and that's what scares me.



I'm talking to a wall. I'm just trying to get you to see ONE thing. Clowney's production was the result of HOW Tennessee attempted to defend Clowney. Very few teams have an OT like Antonio Richardson. Richardson won some but for the most part he got beat however UT won. I think Clowney & USC would much rather have UT commit more resources to shutting Clowney out to free up his teammates than lose. When Clowney gets doubled he's freeing up teammates PLEASE stop acting like nothing happened. Clowney's impact on the game despite the boxscore is well documented every week. When Clowney draws ALL that attention he IS doing his job. SOMETHING is happening.


I don't understand why you're mad I admitted that he dominated the game?
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22761
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
bitty wrote:

Does Albert Haynesworth mean anything to you. He was the most physically gifted DT in the NFL He only played hard in contract years and after he got payed he didn't even try.
No one ever question Clowney's physical abilities, it's his mental makeup people worry about



Clowney isn't going to participate in the combine he's having an operation on his heel after this season.


Questions about Clowney's character have been completely overblown. I've watched every game of his and I see no distinguishable lack of interest. Yes, Clowney was noticeably gassed against UNC but so was the entire defense. Some of us only pay attention to the box score. Expecting 19+ sacks this season was ridiculous. Previous to the Vols game much of Clowney's impact did not translate to the boxscore. The major contributing factor to Clowney's breakout game was the way Tennessee attempted to play Clowney. With a talent like OT Antonio Richardson the Vols basically allowed him to operate on an island for 68 snaps and Clowney beat him like a drum. Everyone else ran away from Clowney.

Hypothetically, if Clowney is the JaMarcus Russell-esque mercenary you are suggesting he is the new rookie salary cap makes taking this risk much less of a detriment to the salary cap or the future of the team. For 6 seasons, possibly 7 if Clowney doesn't play his rookie season, the Raiders would reap the benefits of Clowney chasing the big money of veteran free agency. At that time the Raiders can determine Clowney's emotional investment in the team and either resign him or trade him for assets.

QB is THE most important position. However, desperation leads to mistakes and misjudgements. Clowney is the best prospect in a weak draft class, unless you are looking for an OT, and this QB class is completely overhyped.


First off the Raiders have no chance of getting him, the giants will draft him. Second he's a great athletic talent but not a polished DE yet. He needs time to learn the NFL game, if he thinks is bad now in college wait until the NFL get him. In the NFL everybody gets chip, double-team, until he learns to deal with that he'll be an average player at best.


I wish people would stop saying this. The Giants have talent and could string together some wins.

The Raiders could easily win 1 more game for all we know.

It's not over until it's over even if Jax seems to be in the driver's seat.
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ryanTHEtrojan


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
bitty wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
bitty wrote:

Does Albert Haynesworth mean anything to you. He was the most physically gifted DT in the NFL He only played hard in contract years and after he got payed he didn't even try.
No one ever question Clowney's physical abilities, it's his mental makeup people worry about



Clowney isn't going to participate in the combine he's having an operation on his heel after this season.


Questions about Clowney's character have been completely overblown. I've watched every game of his and I see no distinguishable lack of interest. Yes, Clowney was noticeably gassed against UNC but so was the entire defense. Some of us only pay attention to the box score. Expecting 19+ sacks this season was ridiculous. Previous to the Vols game much of Clowney's impact did not translate to the boxscore. The major contributing factor to Clowney's breakout game was the way Tennessee attempted to play Clowney. With a talent like OT Antonio Richardson the Vols basically allowed him to operate on an island for 68 snaps and Clowney beat him like a drum. Everyone else ran away from Clowney.

Hypothetically, if Clowney is the JaMarcus Russell-esque mercenary you are suggesting he is the new rookie salary cap makes taking this risk much less of a detriment to the salary cap or the future of the team. For 6 seasons, possibly 7 if Clowney doesn't play his rookie season, the Raiders would reap the benefits of Clowney chasing the big money of veteran free agency. At that time the Raiders can determine Clowney's emotional investment in the team and either resign him or trade him for assets.

QB is THE most important position. However, desperation leads to mistakes and misjudgements. Clowney is the best prospect in a weak draft class, unless you are looking for an OT, and this QB class is completely overhyped.


First off the Raiders have no chance of getting him, the giants will draft him. Second he's a great athletic talent but not a polished DE yet. He needs time to learn the NFL game, if he thinks is bad now in college wait until the NFL get him. In the NFL everybody gets chip, double-team, until he learns to deal with that he'll be an average player at best.


I wish people would stop saying this. The Giants have talent and could string together some wins.

The Raiders could easily win 1 more game for all we know.

It's not over until it's over even if Jax seems to be in the driver's seat.


Yeah completely agree here. By the end of Week 6, we had one less win than the Giants, Vikings, Steelers, and Redskins... combined. I don't think anyone here though can make a good argument that we have enough talent to finish above any of these teams by season's end record wise. The Steelers and Redskins both won their games this week and the Giants and Vikes will play tonight (Im taking the home Giants btw). So while I agree with Bitty that if the Giants are in position to take Clowney, they would (as would plenty of other teams), I think theyre far too talented to draft high enough to.

After this past weekend's performances from some marquee college Qb's, maybe the Jags pick Clowney to address their 28th ranked total sacks (ahead of the Bears and the aforementioned Steelers, Vikes and Giants), and wait another year till Jameis is comes out.
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CrashMan510


Joined: 14 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just thinking about JD + Lamar as our DE's.....



G-I-A-N-T-S giants giants giants, win yourself out of clowney you bastards...
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

I don't understand why you're mad I admitted that he dominated the game?


I don't get mad. My frustration is that next week when Mizzou avoids Clowney like the plague there will be some that will blindly follow the media lead without actively watching the game. This what ESPN does. They create stories. They build kids up and then rip then apart.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One to watch for:
Clowney and the Gamecocks going down in flames vs. Mizzou and falling out of the Top 25.
True freshman QB Hackenberg vs OSU DT Michael Bennett.
O'Brien vs Meyer.
OSU vs. Penn State . . . it's going to be a great matchup.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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