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Time for mckenzie to go
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7412
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:

Rod Woodson - Just what the D ordered, an experienced playmaker and influence on our

Laughing
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1415
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Darbsk wrote:

Rod Woodson - Just what the D ordered, an experienced playmaker and influence on our

Laughing

Embarassed

Hopefully he does the same job!!!
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"The fire that burns brightest in the Raiders organization is the will to win."
Mr. Al Davis RIP
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7412
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been extremely critical of McKenzie. However, I think his greatest moves have been addition by subtraction. A lot of guys that were overpaid not to care were masquerading as leaders. I definitely do not see the apathy that has characterized this team over the last decade.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1415
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
I have been extremely critical of McKenzie. However, I think his greatest moves have been addition by subtraction. A lot of guys that were overpaid not to care were masquerading as leaders. I definitely do not see the apathy that has characterized this team over the last decade.


Good point Bagga. The team seems to have an 'us against them' spirit. It appears to be bringing them together as a band of brothers.

Even though we will get found out now and again with a lack of elite talent I can't fault the attitude or effort in adversity. I think the coaches have had a big influence and the players look enthusiastic, injuries ironically may have had a galvanising effect on the team.
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Stix101


Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 280
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
holyghost wrote:
I'm not asking for everything right, or even 50-50. Realistically, right now McKenzie is working at about 10-90 or worse, which is not too good. With no, not one, true hits. Time, yes. Is he doing great? Nah. Wake me when he finds one great young player, to start.


This is a bit harsh Ghost. I know you're highlighting you're point and I'm sure we would all love to have landed an RG3 or Aldon Smith type impact player but I for one would forgo the short term for a steady, long term improvement even if it meant another year or two of losing seasons (though i think next year we will be competing for #2 in the division).

It's being a bit simplistic but I would grade McKenzies' decisions so far like this:

Terrible Moves
None so fare, that Flynn trade wasn't great but it hasn't handicapped us moving forward.

Bad Moves
Matt Flynn trade - in hindsight we don't need him and he is a liability with our depleted OL. We could have got the same from a street FA.
2012 CBs - neither worked out and both came in with injury histories which reared their ugly heads.
Knapp/ZBS - maybe DA was 99% responsible for this, but RMcK must have ratified it and should have forseen that Knapp would be a disaster.
Pryor - Again this is easy to say in hindsight but the young guy should have been given the reigns to the O through OTAs and TC rather than wasting time on Flynn.
2012 Draft - Too early to judge really, but going on first impressions we got a backup in Bilukidi and a backup in Burris, roster bubble players in Crawford and Berg. I am prepared to give them time but as of right now it doesn't look great, we should have had 1 starter i believe given the dearth of talent we had on the roster at the time.

Good Moves
Carson Palmer Trade - Wasn't a fan at the time as I liked Palmer and thought he could do a job for us for a few more years, we cleaned his $ up and got a pick, I have to admit it is looking like a good business decision.
Rod Streater - great pickup as UDFA and is clearly our most reliable reciever though not as explosive as Moore.
Rod Woodson - Just what the D ordered, an experienced playmaker and influence on our younger guys. Brought a 'feelgood' factor to Oakland again.
Defence - 10 overall changes to the D, some forced by injury and yet we actually improve. We have guys out there that play their hearts out and even though they make the odd mistake the improvement is noticeable.
Tony Pashos - Just when the OL was looking like a complete mess Pashos comes in plays better than solid, can't ask anymore from someone brought in off his couch.
Coaches - IMO Tarver was a master stroke, the guy is the real deal, the players play for him and will hopefully grow with the organisation, Sparano is doing a great job of making chicken soup out of chicken feathers on the OL and Bobby April has our ST playing 100% better than the last couple years. This is very subjective of course!
QB Competition - RMcK and DA swallowed their pride and started the guy who deserved to start, and it's paying dividens. Will Pryor be QBoTF? Who knows but as of now he is the best we have and they have gone with him and not stuck with the higher paid guy they traded for.

Great Moves
Cap Clean Up - Wipes the slate clean moving forward and although we lost guys like Bryant (who is going to be great) while doing it, will pay massive dividends in the long run. A lot of GMs I feel would have tried to ride the 8-8 season so they weren't under immediate pressure but RMcK has gone with his gut and done what he thinks is best for the organisation rather than trying to keep people off his back. Not just a cap clean up but updating the whole organisation is a huge undertaking and needed to be done.

Has Reggie made mistakes? Of course he has. Could he have drafted better in hindsight? Yes. But overall McKenzie has done IMO a lot more good than bad and has dragged us kicking and screaming into the 21st century. That cannot be underestimated.

Great post Darbsk, well put and i couldnt even tell you had a accent Laughing

But seriously, i agree with everything, except Flynn, that was absolutely terrible. Ask Mark Davis what he thinks of it, his pockets are feeling 6.5 million light. That could have been used on two starting guards! Shoot, I'd rather have given the chinese that money then let Flatt Flynn have it.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 23558
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest positive to me is the change in culture this regime has brought.

The locker room for the first time in a decade seems great. I would argue you could now bring in a suspect character guy and have him fall in line w/ this vet group of leaders (McGee comes to mind).

Getting rid of the likes of Routt, Kelly, etc. has been a breath of fresh air.

Not overpaying on players like Wheeler is smart. Got Burnett who has played admirably for considerably less money.

No GM is going to nail everything. Reggie is still green, but has made some very positive strides. IMO, the coaching staff is coming together nicely. The roster is starting to gel w/ the types they hoped to obtain. Now they can sign the ones they like to extensions w/ available cap space and continue to build the roster up.

Rookie development is another story. That will take a little patience.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stix101 wrote:
Great post Darbsk, well put and i couldnt even tell you had a accent Laughing

But seriously, i agree with everything, except Flynn, that was absolutely terrible. Ask Mark Davis what he thinks of it, his pockets are feeling 6.5 million light. That could have been used on two starting guards! Shoot, I'd rather have given the chinese that money then let Flatt Flynn have it.


Just like Nigel Gruff Laughing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DWQsSVhq9E

At least with Flynn we're not handcuffed into a 3 or 4 year contract, but a couple of decent guards for the 6.5 mil would have been nice!!!
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Stix101


Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 280
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
Great post Darbsk, well put and i couldnt even tell you had a accent Laughing

But seriously, i agree with everything, except Flynn, that was absolutely terrible. Ask Mark Davis what he thinks of it, his pockets are feeling 6.5 million light. That could have been used on two starting guards! Shoot, I'd rather have given the chinese that money then let Flatt Flynn have it.


Just like Nigel Gruff Laughing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DWQsSVhq9E

At least with Flynn we're not handcuffed into a 3 or 4 year contract, but a couple of decent guards for the 6.5 mil would have been nice!!!


Quote:
You just hold it Shane, and I'll kick the bloody pi*s out of it

haha great movie
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3989
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
The biggest positive to me is the change in culture this regime has brought.

The locker room for the first time in a decade seems great. I would argue you could now bring in a suspect character guy and have him fall in line w/ this vet group of leaders (McGee comes to mind).

Getting rid of the likes of Routt, Kelly, etc. has been a breath of fresh air.

Not overpaying on players like Wheeler is smart. Got Burnett who has played admirably for considerably less money.

No GM is going to nail everything. Reggie is still green, but has made some very positive strides. IMO, the coaching staff is coming together nicely. The roster is starting to gel w/ the types they hoped to obtain. Now they can sign the ones they like to extensions w/ available cap space and continue to build the roster up.

Rookie development is another story. That will take a little patience.


Don't forget about the TD machine, Michael Huff
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7412
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stix101 wrote:
That could have been used on two starting guards! Shoot, I'd rather have given the chinese that money then let Flatt Flynn have it.


Like who?
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Tatatoothy


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this should have gone in the Flynn released thread or this one. Does anyone know how much we are on the line for with Flynn's release, I have seen conflicting reports, some say 6Mil, and another one says that we are only on the hook for 500k, and Seattle eats the rest?
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Stix101


Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 280
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Stix101 wrote:
That could have been used on two starting guards! Shoot, I'd rather have given the chinese that money then let Flatt Flynn have it.


Like who?

Andy Levitre & Louis Vasquez would have been great.
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