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Let's Talk About Haloti Ngata

 
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Let's Talk About Haloti Ngata Reply with quote

I'm not starting this thread because I have especially strong opinions. I'm starting this thread because I just want to deep dive into Haloti Ngata's play and maybe develop better perspective myself on what we're getting out of him. I don't have All-22 film, so I haven't myself really unpacked Ngata's play from every angle so far. All I've done is watch the games in real-time, and I can't say that I'm sitting there watching the nose tackle on every play.

What I've seen from Ngata is that he's occupying multiple blockers on almost every play. The respect from other opponents is there. And on run plays, he seems to be doing his job enough that our front 7 is crashing into their backfield pretty consistently. Even when we give up biggish runs, it seems more that it happens when a linebacker misses a tackle. The defensive line is doing its job. In the passing game, I can't say I've noticed Ngata that much. That's not necessarily his fault... he's never been known as a pass rusher to begin with and playing frequently as a NT will make his opportunities to break through even harder.

So I guess the question I want to pose to the floor is... should we expecting more from Haloti Ngata? He's not really blowing up plays in a way that I came to expect from a healthy Ngata, but he's also playing in a different role this year. He's playing well, that much is clear. He's a great player. But how well does he have to do to live up to his own reputation?
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a tough topic. He's playing NT and his impact is shown in how well the front-7 around him is playing in Run D and pass rush.

But then again, you certainly want more splash plays from a player you are paying $12+ million a year. He's getting more than Suggs and it's been a few years since he's been a better player than Suggs.

Even so, you can't say he's not playing really well, but you could certainly make the case the value is lacking here. My response is just a shrug. I don't really know what to say. Neutral
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure you're asking the right question at the end. I think a better question just might be, "how well does he have to play to live up to his contract"... because I've been wondering all of this and that question in particular to myself. When you've got the Jets front 7 looking so lethal with the guys they've got and all these impact DL around the league... and Ngata is simply looking 'good', I'm not sure that's worth what he's being paid. He's paid to look dominant against the run and pass.

Now, I wouldn't release him or anything... and trading would be a pretty classless move. Ngata is also a veteran on this team. We also have to take into consideration just how bad the NT play looked last season in Pees scheme, so maybe Ngata looking good is simply about the best we can hope for? But if Ngata continues to play at this level, I think the chances of him getting a third contract will be nill. Simply put, I just think come 2016... we probably will have better options at our disposal than a 32 year old Ngata... and that's somewhat sad in the fact that you'd hope a guy like him would have been a lifetime Raven, but I'm just not sure if his play will warrant that.

This year it isn't so bad, just because he's only getting paid $4m. But in 2014 & 2015, he'll be getting paid $8.5m... does his play this season... and really for the past couple seasons (he wasn't healthy, but you've still got to factor durability into the equation) justify him getting paid that amount? I can see paying Lewis and Reed much more than they were worth because of what they meant to this franchise. But Ngata has never really thrust himself onto that level. Ngata is looking more and more like a Peter Boulware, great player, but a very short prime due to injuries.

Tbqh I've been disappointed in Ngata for the past couple seasons. We hype this guy's play up so much as being underrated... and just when we get this guy hyped to his level of play... his play falls off with injury after injury, until he just no longer looks like his former healthy, utterly dominant self. This guy went from being one of the most dominant players in the league and the best defensive player on this team, to just being a role player for a great defense... which is good, but not exactly worth $8.5m for two seasons.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's certainly not the "splash" player he used to be, but I think as a NT now he's just dominating in ways that can't be seen to us casual viewers.

For example, there was a play on Sunday where the Dolphins ran the ball early in the game on 3rd down and 1 (our first big defensive stop). From the NT position, Ngata took Mike Pouncey and ran him all the way down the line WHILE driving him into the backfield and eventually made the tackle for a no yard gain.

So while the splash plays aren't there like they used to be with Ngata, his presence is still VERY much felt, and I, for one, am not disappointed in him.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
He's certainly not the "splash" player he used to be, but I think as a NT now he's just dominating in ways that can't be seen to us casual viewers.

For example, there was a play on Sunday where the Dolphins ran the ball early in the game on 3rd down and 1 (our first big defensive stop). From the NT position, Ngata took Mike Pouncey and ran him all the way down the line WHILE driving him into the backfield and eventually made the tackle for a no yard gain.

So while the splash plays aren't there like they used to be with Ngata, his presence is still VERY much felt, and I, for one, am not disappointed in him.


This is where I stand. I kind of thought we might see him be a little more disruptive as a pass-rusher but it's pretty clear how he's helping everybody else in the front seven to get to the QB so I think it more than evens out. Ngata has never been a guy that's dominant as a pass-rusher and really was never more than inconsistent. The Ravens knew this when they gave him a new deal and I don't think they can be dissapointed with the results. To me he's definitely worth the money he's getting and going to get. I'm not sure you could plug anybody else in and get the same results from the defense.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
He's certainly not the "splash" player he used to be, but I think as a NT now he's just dominating in ways that can't be seen to us casual viewers.

For example, there was a play on Sunday where the Dolphins ran the ball early in the game on 3rd down and 1 (our first big defensive stop). From the NT position, Ngata took Mike Pouncey and ran him all the way down the line WHILE driving him into the backfield and eventually made the tackle for a no yard gain.

So while the splash plays aren't there like they used to be with Ngata, his presence is still VERY much felt, and I, for one, am not disappointed in him.


This is where I stand. I kind of thought we might see him be a little more disruptive as a pass-rusher but it's pretty clear how he's helping everybody else in the front seven to get to the QB so I think it more than evens out. Ngata has never been a guy that's dominant as a pass-rusher and really was never more than inconsistent. The Ravens knew this when they gave him a new deal and I don't think they can be dissapointed with the results. To me he's definitely worth the money he's getting and going to get. I'm not sure you could plug anybody else in and get the same results from the defense.


Yep, the difference between him and Terrance Cody at NT is not even comparable, really. He IS and CAN BE a dominant pass rusher, but the fact is that he really doesn't need to be with the way our defense is set up right now. He just needs to chew up blockers and basically just spy the QB every play while Suggs/Doom and whoever else rush the passer.

I think the more we see from Ngata and the more comfortable he gets at NT for us, the more we will start seeing him going back to rushing the passer and knowing when to do the things he used to do when they just let him get after thigns.
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nevermore


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
He's certainly not the "splash" player he used to be, but I think as a NT now he's just dominating in ways that can't be seen to us casual viewers.

For example, there was a play on Sunday where the Dolphins ran the ball early in the game on 3rd down and 1 (our first big defensive stop). From the NT position, Ngata took Mike Pouncey and ran him all the way down the line WHILE driving him into the backfield and eventually made the tackle for a no yard gain.

So while the splash plays aren't there like they used to be with Ngata, his presence is still VERY much felt, and I, for one, am not disappointed in him.


This is where I stand. I kind of thought we might see him be a little more disruptive as a pass-rusher but it's pretty clear how he's helping everybody else in the front seven to get to the QB so I think it more than evens out. Ngata has never been a guy that's dominant as a pass-rusher and really was never more than inconsistent. The Ravens knew this when they gave him a new deal and I don't think they can be dissapointed with the results. To me he's definitely worth the money he's getting and going to get. I'm not sure you could plug anybody else in and get the same results from the defense.

I'm with you guys. I'm actually pretty happy with his play so far this season.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell he still pushes the pocket on pass plays. As long as he makes sure the QB can't step up and let's guys like Suggs, Doom, Jones, etc. do the rest I have absolutely no problem with his play against the pass.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermore wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
He's certainly not the "splash" player he used to be, but I think as a NT now he's just dominating in ways that can't be seen to us casual viewers.

For example, there was a play on Sunday where the Dolphins ran the ball early in the game on 3rd down and 1 (our first big defensive stop). From the NT position, Ngata took Mike Pouncey and ran him all the way down the line WHILE driving him into the backfield and eventually made the tackle for a no yard gain.

So while the splash plays aren't there like they used to be with Ngata, his presence is still VERY much felt, and I, for one, am not disappointed in him.


This is where I stand. I kind of thought we might see him be a little more disruptive as a pass-rusher but it's pretty clear how he's helping everybody else in the front seven to get to the QB so I think it more than evens out. Ngata has never been a guy that's dominant as a pass-rusher and really was never more than inconsistent. The Ravens knew this when they gave him a new deal and I don't think they can be dissapointed with the results. To me he's definitely worth the money he's getting and going to get. I'm not sure you could plug anybody else in and get the same results from the defense.

I'm with you guys. I'm actually pretty happy with his play so far this season.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell he still pushes the pocket on pass plays. As long as he makes sure the QB can't step up and let's guys like Suggs, Doom, Jones, etc. do the rest I have absolutely no problem with his play against the pass.


Same. I think due to the position he's playing, it's a thankless job -- he's letting everyone else get the glory. Our run defense this year is much improved and I think he's a huge component of it.

Next year, however, I wouldn't doubt to see him back at DE with Williams at NT.
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