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DCRED


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.
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Marcus21


Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 1137
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.


I love Orakpo on this team as long as they are not asking him to drop into coverage!!! If they want their OLB to drop they need to go into a different direction...If they want their OLB to go for the QB...like Ware in Dallas...Orakpo is our guy!!!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.


I love Orakpo on this team as long as they are not asking him to drop into coverage!!! If they want their OLB to drop they need to go into a different direction...If they want their OLB to go for the QB...like Ware in Dallas...Orakpo is our guy!!!
He hasn't even been that horrible in coverage. He's made some nice plays in coverage the past two years and in only 6 games vs RobJackson's 14 over the past two years, Orakpo is only one behind Jackson in passes defensed.

The difference I see is that Orakpo doesn't have good hands like Kerrigan and Jackson, but Orakpo seems to move pretty fluidly over the past two years when he drops. Orakpo also doesn't have qbs throw the ball right at him like Rob Jackson. I like Jackson, but most of his ints the Qb threw it right at him. In the 6 games Rak has played the past two years he's had to jump or dive for ints or to make pass break ups.

The truth is no 3-4 OLB is great in coverage and all of guys are about equal to be honest but Kerrigan and Jackson do have better hands than Rak.
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Marcus21


Joined: 19 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.


I love Orakpo on this team as long as they are not asking him to drop into coverage!!! If they want their OLB to drop they need to go into a different direction...If they want their OLB to go for the QB...like Ware in Dallas...Orakpo is our guy!!!
He hasn't even been that horrible in coverage. He's made some nice plays in coverage the past two years and in only 6 games vs RobJackson's 14 over the past two years, Orakpo is only one behind Jackson in passes defensed.

The difference I see is that Orakpo doesn't have good hands like Kerrigan and Jackson, but Orakpo seems to move pretty fluidly over the past two years when he drops. Orakpo also doesn't have qbs throw the ball right at him like Rob Jackson. I like Jackson, but most of his ints the Qb threw it right at him. In the 6 games Rak has played the past two years he's had to jump or dive for ints or to make pass break ups.

The truth is no 3-4 OLB is great in coverage and all of guys are about equal to be honest but Kerrigan and Jackson do have better hands than Rak.


No need to kick a dead horse....we can just agree to disagree
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree marcus21, but do me a favor vs Dallas and watch Orakpo closely if he drops in coverage. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised, I have been in the past two years I've seen him in coverage.

Here's a example of Orakpo in coverage from this training camp in Santana Moss:

http://m.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2013/jul/30/outside-linebacker-brian-orakpo-evolving-pass-cove/

Quote:
On Monday, though, Orakpo mirrored Moss by backpedaling and sliding inside, then sprinted out when Moss pivoted. He stayed close to Moss’ back hip, and the quarterback threw elsewhere.

Orakpo’s fine coverage on the play, particularly because he was in space against the elusive Moss, is evidence of how much he has improved in that area.

“Just footwork, man, and kind of knowing route concepts instead of just reading the receiver,” he said. “Just kind of knowing what he’s capable doing on his option routes.”


The main problem in coverage continues to be the play of the actual secondary members. The redskins are 4th in sacks, so as much as some want to blame the front pass rush for the failings of the secondary- it just isn't true. Kerrigan leads the defense in sacks with 5. Orakpo has 3 sacks and leads the team in Qb hits and hurries. Cofield has 2 sacks and numerous hurries, Riley and Fletcher each have a Qb sack and numerous Qb pressures.

Vs Oakland Rak had five pressures, including two sacks, a batted pass, and a pass defensed, and pro football focus gave him the game ball for the game.

Despite the improved pass rush our secondary has allowed nine passing touchdowns (tied for second most), the second most yards after the catch (734) and continues to be plagued by missed tackles.

ProFootballFocus.com charts that cornerback Josh Wilson has missed eight tackles - the most on the team. Meriweather and Doughty have missed five each. Rambo missed four in two games.
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Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.


I was agreeing with you, but it seemed like DCRED was taking a shot at Orakpo because Kerrigan is playing well.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/redskinsbuzztap/status/386633431482118144

How the broncos and chiefs slowed down the Eagles offense
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.


I was agreeing with you, but it seemed like DCRED was taking a shot at Orakpo because Kerrigan is playing well.
I thought you were. I got lost on the post and kinda went on a rant. Laughing
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daboyle250


Joined: 29 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


1. Brian Orakpo- At this point he shouldn't be overly expensive unless he blows up after the bye week and starts playing like Kerrigan.



I am letting that sink in for a while


Never understood how one player balling hurts another.

Ryan's still getting favorable match-ups as well, regardless he's still playing much better.
Its a race to the QB isn't it?

When one player is facing right tackles and the other is facing the best OL on every team (their LT) it seems to me there's an easier line to the Qb for one player over the other.

I wouldn't say Kerrigan balling out hurts Brian Orakpo, but it hurts his sack totals, even so, they're both on pace to get double digit sacks, the team is 4th in sacks and I think everyone should be excited about that and excited to see Rak back and getting pressure against left tackles, something all our pass rushers struggled to do in his absence last year -- even Ryan Kerrigan.


I was agreeing with you, but it seemed like DCRED was taking a shot at Orakpo because Kerrigan is playing well.
I thought you were. I got lost on the post and kinda went on a rant. Laughing


Good job turtle Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised Surprised
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DCRED wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm still cleaning up the stains in my pants! Laughing
Ewwww.
worse thing is they've been there since Shanahan was fired
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Dashing


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Rob Jackson is too slow to play ILB.
Slow as in how?

His 40 time, his shuttle time, his side to side change of direction?

Just doing a quick scan of his 40 time vs our other inside and outside LBs when they came out in the draft and he's only a tenth to 1.5 tenths slower than them in the 40 time and that was when he was a defensive end, before he started playing more in space as a linebacker and working on agility drills as a LB.

I'm not saying the switch will even work, but I think it's something that should be explored and should have been explored this past offseason because we knew he was going to be suspended anyways. He would have had the entire offseason and then the first 6 weeks of the regular season to work ok getting acclimated to the position.
Hes too slow for that bro.

Time to start Nick at ILB Londons done. IMO to see if Nick can play so we can know if we are able to trust him for next year.

graded top 10 olb last year in coverage as well
Thanks for giving no answer to my question.

Nick Barnett isn't better. London isn't getting replaced, there isn't one person in the organization or in the Redskins lockeroom that thinks that move should be made. Only a small faction of fans and IMO it seems like this faction likes to criticize the team more than root for it.

Barnett graded out worse than Fletcher in every stat that I've seen, where are you getting your info from? Where are you getting that Barnett is a top 10 LB in coverage?

The main reason the Bills didn't like him was because he was horrible in coverage. In 2012 Barnett allowed a position-high passer rating of 129.8.

I've seen where profootballfocus.com had him 9th for OLBs, but then he gave up the highest Qb ranking last year, so that confuses me. Confused I don't know what they are basing their rankings on. I remember researching him when he was signed and he was right around the same area as London Fletcher.

I remember where I saw the comparisons of Fletcher and Barnett from last year:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/15836/london-fletcher

I mean, here they equate Fletch's year last year to Ray Lewis in 09-10 and how Fletch played in 07-09.

That's not good enough?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/15381/nick-barnett
right that's why nivks getting more snap and yes he's better no way a london who had no edge speed or very poor coverage and leads the nfl I believe agin in miss tackles won't have barnett starting.


Only reason he'd not starting is because londons a leader and u need that on d but than again our dc is a bonehead.

I will bet u erverything barnett replaces london mid way season. I meam its like why is kebdric startistarting when we have baker or had merling around.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think both guys having a good season helps both guys. IMO Kerrigan is showing he's the more versitle player witch makes him the one worth more money. Them playing together is benefinicial to the team and both guys because it gives us more talent on the team and it allows both guys to at times get one on one matchup instead of constant double teams if they we're to play on seperate teams, but we have to notice the difference in these to as far as talent. While I would pay Kerrigan like a top up and coming 3-4 LB I wouldn't do the same for Orakpo because IMO he isn't, but that's not to knock him or say we don't need to resign him and try to keep this tandem together. Orakpo is what he is, mainly a pure speed and power pass rusher who is trying to improve as a LB. He deserves a new deal but it should be more comparable to a DE than LB. I think moving Orakpo to DE and signing another pure 3-4 LB opposite of Kerrigan would be the best decision.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Rob Jackson is too slow to play ILB.
Slow as in how?

His 40 time, his shuttle time, his side to side change of direction?

Just doing a quick scan of his 40 time vs our other inside and outside LBs when they came out in the draft and he's only a tenth to 1.5 tenths slower than them in the 40 time and that was when he was a defensive end, before he started playing more in space as a linebacker and working on agility drills as a LB.

I'm not saying the switch will even work, but I think it's something that should be explored and should have been explored this past offseason because we knew he was going to be suspended anyways. He would have had the entire offseason and then the first 6 weeks of the regular season to work ok getting acclimated to the position.
Hes too slow for that bro.

Time to start Nick at ILB Londons done. IMO to see if Nick can play so we can know if we are able to trust him for next year.

graded top 10 olb last year in coverage as well
Thanks for giving no answer to my question.

Nick Barnett isn't better. London isn't getting replaced, there isn't one person in the organization or in the Redskins lockeroom that thinks that move should be made. Only a small faction of fans and IMO it seems like this faction likes to criticize the team more than root for it.

Barnett graded out worse than Fletcher in every stat that I've seen, where are you getting your info from? Where are you getting that Barnett is a top 10 LB in coverage?

The main reason the Bills didn't like him was because he was horrible in coverage. In 2012 Barnett allowed a position-high passer rating of 129.8.

I've seen where profootballfocus.com had him 9th for OLBs, but then he gave up the highest Qb ranking last year, so that confuses me. Confused I don't know what they are basing their rankings on. I remember researching him when he was signed and he was right around the same area as London Fletcher.

I remember where I saw the comparisons of Fletcher and Barnett from last year:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/15836/london-fletcher

I mean, here they equate Fletch's year last year to Ray Lewis in 09-10 and how Fletch played in 07-09.

That's not good enough?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/15381/nick-barnett
right that's why nivks getting more snap and yes he's better no way a london who had no edge speed or very poor coverage and leads the nfl I believe agin in miss tackles won't have barnett starting.
Nick has played a few snaps here and there to give Fletch a break or I've seen him come in to have another ILB on the field in short yardage. I saw a team throw once when it was short yardage, Barnett in coverage and the pass completed easily- I think it was vs. Detroit but it may have been last game.


Quote:
Only reason he'd not starting is because londons a leader and u need that on d but than again our dc is a bonehead.
that's not the tony reason. It's more than just Fletch being a coach on the field. To a man all the coaches and defenders speak to his importance on this defense and they aren't just talking about hi knowledge. Darryl Tapp just called him amazing and the best player on the D so far- now I think Kerrigan is the best, Cofield 2nd but it speaks to Flether's respect from the entire organization and lockeroom.

Quote:
I will bet u erverything barnett replaces london mid way season. I meam its like why is kebdric startistarting when we have baker or had merling around.
There's no way. We'll keep tabs on it though, all you're predictions come true so you might be right. Laughing Rolling Eyes

Golston started over Baker and Merling because of his knowledge, dependability and he's a better player than Merling and Baker.

I mean heck! Baker got benched for his poor play one game (I think after the GB game) so he didn't play vs Detroit and Merling just got cut.

Just remember, Barnett is only here because Keenan Robinson got hurt. If it wasn't for that injury he wouldn't be in DC right now. He's done nothing to take London or Riley's jobs away from them.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
I think both guys having a good season helps both guys. IMO Kerrigan is showing he's the more versitle player witch makes him the one worth more money. Them playing together is benefinicial to the team and both guys because it gives us more talent on the team and it allows both guys to at times get one on one matchup instead of constant double teams if they we're to play on seperate teams, but we have to notice the difference in these to as far as talent. While I would pay Kerrigan like a top up and coming 3-4 LB I wouldn't do the same for Orakpo because IMO he isn't, but that's not to knock him or say we don't need to resign him and try to keep this tandem together. Orakpo is what he is, mainly a pure speed and power pass rusher who is trying to improve as a LB.
I agree with everything you said except he's a speed and bill rusher.

Quote:
He deserves a new deal but it should be more comparable to a DE than LB. I think moving Orakpo to DE and signing another pure 3-4 LB opposite of Kerrigan would be the best decision.
a top pass rushing DE generally gets paid more than linebackers, bus since now a days they're paying 3-4 OLBs like 4-3 DEs and treating them both like pass rushers it's the same.

What you're suggesting in the last sentence is not re-resigning Orakpo. It would creating a hole in our defense. We could re-sign Jackson or have Jenkins be our 3-4 OLB both of which aren't as good of pass rushers as Rak because Rak can't play DE in our current defensive scheme.
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