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jch1911


Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 3699
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raz wrote:
jch1911 wrote:


I almost wonder if the players told Matt just that - next time, eat the ball or just audible. Letting Matt know that we have your back - if Koobs tries to dress you down for not doing as programmed.

Now that being said, we gotta have better play calls. I know we are not the Saints' offense - but did you see them on Monday night?? Up big and still full throttle with their execution. I hope Koobs was taking notes.


You call the plays depending on what limitations you have.
Are you seriously suggesting that Kubiak should make Schaub copy what Drew Brees did last monday?

Schaub has limitations, why the [inappropriate/removed] do you think Falcons are having the same problem with playcalling.It's the QB not the playcalling.


Yes, you call plays based on your limitations. But you also don't crawl into a shell just because you currently have a lead. Did I say we should pretend Matt Schaub is Drew Brees???

My point with the Saints is they didn't just lay back and pound the ball with their RBs - HOPING that the game clock will run out.

They stayed true to their offense with SMART throws that didn't put their receivers (or QB) in precarious situations. Every QB (even Manning & Brees & Brady) have limitations; great coaches put their players in situations to maximize their strengths & minimize their weaknesses. Schaubby ain't never gonna beat a rabbit in a foot race or runaway from anyone - esp. a safety blitz.

The naked bootleg with 3 defenders in the area of your intended receiver was NOT a good play call or one that is in our normal offense. Koobs is very good at designing plays to get one on one matchups. Do more of that. Normally, our play action passes are difficult if not impossible to stop because (1) you have to be afraid of Arian as a receiver and running threat (normally - and he seems to have gotten his legs back in that Seattle game) and (2) we now have three legitimate receiving threats at pretty much all times in AJ, Nuk, and OD.

I give Seattle credit that they read the play perfectly. Probably because they have seen the Texans' run that play a few times.

The crazy thing about that play was that AJ was WIDE OPEN. If Schuab has the ability / authority to check down (and actually saw the blitz coming), his throw makes all the sense in the world and actually might have gone for a TD IF HE THREW THAT THING UP FOR AJ. I suspect that the play call was to OD and he just tried his darndest to put the ball where it was intended to go. HORRIBLE DECISION.
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Grasspike


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jch1911 wrote:
Raz wrote:
jch1911 wrote:


I almost wonder if the players told Matt just that - next time, eat the ball or just audible. Letting Matt know that we have your back - if Koobs tries to dress you down for not doing as programmed.

Now that being said, we gotta have better play calls. I know we are not the Saints' offense - but did you see them on Monday night?? Up big and still full throttle with their execution. I hope Koobs was taking notes.


You call the plays depending on what limitations you have.
Are you seriously suggesting that Kubiak should make Schaub copy what Drew Brees did last monday?

Schaub has limitations, why the [inappropriate/removed] do you think Falcons are having the same problem with playcalling.It's the QB not the playcalling.


Yes, you call plays based on your limitations. But you also don't crawl into a shell just because you currently have a lead. Did I say we should pretend Matt Schaub is Drew Brees???

My point with the Saints is they didn't just lay back and pound the ball with their RBs - HOPING that the game clock will run out.

They stayed true to their offense with SMART throws that didn't put their receivers (or QB) in precarious situations. Every QB (even Manning & Brees & Brady) have limitations; great coaches put their players in situations to maximize their strengths & minimize their weaknesses. Schaubby ain't never gonna beat a rabbit in a foot race or runaway from anyone - esp. a safety blitz.

The naked bootleg with 3 defenders in the area of your intended receiver was NOT a good play call or one that is in our normal offense. Koobs is very good at designing plays to get one on one matchups. Do more of that. Normally, our play action passes are difficult if not impossible to stop because (1) you have to be afraid of Arian as a receiver and running threat (normally - and he seems to have gotten his legs back in that Seattle game) and (2) we now have three legitimate receiving threats at pretty much all times in AJ, Nuk, and OD.

I give Seattle credit that they read the play perfectly. Probably because they have seen the Texans' run that play a few times.

The crazy thing about that play was that AJ was WIDE OPEN. If Schuab has the ability / authority to check down (and actually saw the blitz coming), his throw makes all the sense in the world and actually might have gone for a TD IF HE THREW THAT THING UP FOR AJ. I suspect that the play call was to OD and he just tried his darndest to put the ball where it was intended to go. HORRIBLE DECISION.


Dude. He was rolling out on the play-action and the blitzing safety was in his face. It being third-and-short, the close receiver is the first read. The right play was to sail it over OD's head. Taking the sack would have been semi-acceptable as well. Lobbing it to AJ was not possible nor a good decision.
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jch1911


Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 3699
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grasspike wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
I give Seattle credit that they read the play perfectly. Probably because they have seen the Texans' run that play a few times.

The crazy thing about that play was that AJ was WIDE OPEN. If Schuab has the ability / authority to check down (and actually saw the blitz coming), his throw makes all the sense in the world and actually might have gone for a TD IF HE THREW THAT THING UP FOR AJ. I suspect that the play call was to OD and he just tried his darndest to put the ball where it was intended to go. HORRIBLE DECISION.


Dude. He was rolling out on the play-action and the blitzing safety was in his face. It being third-and-short, the close receiver is the first read. The right play was to sail it over OD's head. Taking the sack would have been semi-acceptable as well. Lobbing it to AJ was not possible nor a good decision.

I respect your opinion. But please read the bolded sections.

First, I don't consider 3rd and 4 necessarily short yardage. Is it 3rd & long? No. But 4 yards can be quite a distance to go and OD's pattern wouldn't even have picked up a first down.

As painful as it may be to watch, watch the footage from the play again. AJ is open over the middle (for a bit until picked up by the FS). Graham is actually open about 5 - 6 yards beyond OD.

Even if the closest receiver was the first read, Seattle was ready for it. Schaub should have eaten the ball / taken the sack. Nobody is disputing that. The point I was making is there were two Texans completely uncovered on that play (1 who is open briefly is your superstar WR who has the ability to win jump balls with most DBs in the league; the 2nd is a pretty sure handed TE who is NAKED). OD wasn't open in any stretch of the imagination (there were actually 3 Seahawk defenders in his area). I suspect Schaub was doing what he had been trained to do - go with the play / first read and that was NOT a good decision.
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5604
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jch1911 wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
I give Seattle credit that they read the play perfectly. Probably because they have seen the Texans' run that play a few times.

The crazy thing about that play was that AJ was WIDE OPEN. If Schuab has the ability / authority to check down (and actually saw the blitz coming), his throw makes all the sense in the world and actually might have gone for a TD IF HE THREW THAT THING UP FOR AJ. I suspect that the play call was to OD and he just tried his darndest to put the ball where it was intended to go. HORRIBLE DECISION.


Dude. He was rolling out on the play-action and the blitzing safety was in his face. It being third-and-short, the close receiver is the first read. The right play was to sail it over OD's head. Taking the sack would have been semi-acceptable as well. Lobbing it to AJ was not possible nor a good decision.



I respect your opinion. But please read the bolded sections.

First, I don't consider 3rd and 4 necessarily short yardage. Is it 3rd & long? No. But 4 yards can be quite a distance to go and OD's pattern wouldn't even have picked up a first down.

As painful as it may be to watch, watch the footage from the play again. AJ is open over the middle (for a bit until picked up by the FS). Graham is actually open about 5 - 6 yards beyond OD.

Even if the closest receiver was the first read, Seattle was ready for it. Schaub should have eaten the ball / taken the sack. Nobody is disputing that. The point I was making is there were two Texans completely uncovered on that play (1 who is open briefly is your superstar WR who has the ability to win jump balls with most DBs in the league; the 2nd is a pretty sure handed TE who is NAKED). OD wasn't open in any stretch of the imagination (there were actually 3 Seahawk defenders in his area). I suspect Schaub was doing what he had been trained to do - go with the play / first read and that was NOT a good decision.


I can't tell if you have watched the play either. You act as if he were sitting there going thru progressions and made the wrong decision on who to throw it to. Kam Chancellor snuck in on blind side blitz position pre snap and Meyers, Harris, Foster, Jones, & Schaub ALL failed to notice. Kubiak didn't either or he should have tried to get a timeout as this play was a disaster waiting to happen, especially since Schaub couldn't even audible out even if they saw it. Chancellor AND LB Malcolm Smith BOTH rushed UNTOUCHED on the blind side and the nature of the playcall is to have Schaub sell the play action with his back to the blind side until he spins to hopefully locate one of those open targets, but in this case Chancellor was a mere 2 steps from him 5 yards deep in our backfield with the LB closing in as well. It's called a naked bootleg for a reason and Schaub was completely exposed when the D knew what was coming. Sherman said he made practically the same play against the scout team in practice on Friday. It doesn't matter one lick if AJ or anyone else was open as the point of a safety blitz is to get to the QB before he has a chance to step into a throw to whichever receiver is open deep and in this case both he and the LB were in Schaub's face. You think heaving it over the middle of the field to AJ was possible or a better idea?

Without question, the right decision at that point is to just hit the deck and take the sack, but he did exactly that on the next drive when the Seahawks jailbreaked 3 and everyone killed him for being "soft" even though nothing good was going to come of that either (Russell Wilson couldn't elude 3 Texans pass rushers running free either, folks). Again, not excusing Schaub's role in making things worse with that abysmal soft toss, but the bigger problem was a playcall where THE BEST outcome possible was for the QB to take a sack and punt from the opponents end of the field again. Kubiak isn't falling on the sword by taking a chunk of the blame on this. When you make a dangerous playcall in a situation where it isn't warranted and the DC and his players STILL see it coming and blow it up the same way they did in practice, you have been badly outcoached & have failed your QB, just like he failed his coach.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2013/09/richard-sherman-pick-6-off-matt-schaub-video/
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
Grasspike wrote:
jch1911 wrote:
I give Seattle credit that they read the play perfectly. Probably because they have seen the Texans' run that play a few times.

The crazy thing about that play was that AJ was WIDE OPEN. If Schuab has the ability / authority to check down (and actually saw the blitz coming), his throw makes all the sense in the world and actually might have gone for a TD IF HE THREW THAT THING UP FOR AJ. I suspect that the play call was to OD and he just tried his darndest to put the ball where it was intended to go. HORRIBLE DECISION.


Dude. He was rolling out on the play-action and the blitzing safety was in his face. It being third-and-short, the close receiver is the first read. The right play was to sail it over OD's head. Taking the sack would have been semi-acceptable as well. Lobbing it to AJ was not possible nor a good decision.



I respect your opinion. But please read the bolded sections.

First, I don't consider 3rd and 4 necessarily short yardage. Is it 3rd & long? No. But 4 yards can be quite a distance to go and OD's pattern wouldn't even have picked up a first down.

As painful as it may be to watch, watch the footage from the play again. AJ is open over the middle (for a bit until picked up by the FS). Graham is actually open about 5 - 6 yards beyond OD.

Even if the closest receiver was the first read, Seattle was ready for it. Schaub should have eaten the ball / taken the sack. Nobody is disputing that. The point I was making is there were two Texans completely uncovered on that play (1 who is open briefly is your superstar WR who has the ability to win jump balls with most DBs in the league; the 2nd is a pretty sure handed TE who is NAKED). OD wasn't open in any stretch of the imagination (there were actually 3 Seahawk defenders in his area). I suspect Schaub was doing what he had been trained to do - go with the play / first read and that was NOT a good decision.


I can't tell if you have watched the play either. You act as if he were sitting there going thru progressions and made the wrong decision on who to throw it to. Kam Chancellor snuck in on blind side blitz position pre snap and Meyers, Harris, Foster, Jones, & Schaub ALL failed to notice. Kubiak didn't either or he should have tried to get a timeout as this play was a disaster waiting to happen, especially since Schaub couldn't even audible out even if they saw it. Chancellor AND LB Malcolm Smith BOTH rushed UNTOUCHED on the blind side and the nature of the playcall is to have Schaub sell the play action with his back to the blind side until he spins to hopefully locate one of those open targets, but in this case Chancellor was a mere 2 steps from him 5 yards deep in our backfield with the LB closing in as well. It's called a naked bootleg for a reason and Schaub was completely exposed when the D knew what was coming. Sherman said he made practically the same play against the scout team in practice on Friday. It doesn't matter one lick if AJ or anyone else was open as the point of a safety blitz is to get to the QB before he has a chance to step into a throw to whichever receiver is open deep and in this case both he and the LB were in Schaub's face. You think heaving it over the middle of the field to AJ was possible or a better idea?

Without question, the right decision at that point is to just hit the deck and take the sack, but he did exactly that on the next drive when the Seahawks jailbreaked 3 and everyone killed him for being "soft" even though nothing good was going to come of that either (Russell Wilson couldn't elude 3 Texans pass rushers running free either, folks). Again, not excusing Schaub's role in making things worse with that abysmal soft toss, but the bigger problem was a playcall where THE BEST outcome possible was for the QB to take a sack and punt from the opponents end of the field again. Kubiak isn't falling on the sword by taking a chunk of the blame on this. When you make a dangerous playcall in a situation where it isn't warranted and the DC and his players STILL see it coming and blow it up the same way they did in practice, you have been badly outcoached & have failed your QB, just like he failed his coach.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2013/09/richard-sherman-pick-6-off-matt-schaub-video/


I agree with everything except for the soft part. We call him soft when he has 4-5 seconds back there and you see him getting antsy and when the pressure comes he folds.....OR when the pressure is coming and instead of remaining calm and stepping up or running a little, he crumbles into the fettle position. Thats why we call him SOFT
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jch1911


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why bold things if nobody reads them? Laughing (I previously said: Seattle called PERFECT play and Schaub based on what he saw should have eaten the ball)

The sad part is I think we are all agreeing on the same point: take the sack / end of story.

My minor point which everyone is getting caught up on apparently was that of the passing options in the area / range, OD was the worst one in that given situation. Schuab had NO TIME to think. So it looks like he chucked the ball in the direction of what was likely his intended receiver - that is, he sought to complete the play as it was drawn up by Koobs.

Once again - and I bolded this section twice now - if he had a modicum of time to process the situation, he sees Chancellor & the LB coming; sees 3 Seahawks' jerseys in OD's direction; and realizes Graham must be completely uncovered OR that AJ has a 1 on 1 matchup.

The reality is (1) he didn't have time (eat the ball) and (2) he doesn't have the "authority" (i.e. he had to go with Koobs designed play). If he indeed was going to just chuck the ball up for a Texan: (1) Graham is wide open; (2) AJ has a 1 on 1; and (3) OD has 3 Seahawks on him / in his area. He made the WORST DECISION possible given the situation.

And to answer your question Apollo: yes, I saw the play and here is a better view than the one you provided.

As a professional QB who does have time to get his head around, he should have seen Chancellor bearing down on him and OD was NOT open.



Now let's talk about beating the team I grew up rooting for. (I love my frat brother CK and respect several other players on that team, but man seems like they have some real headcases on the Niners this year.)
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