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'14 Draft/CFB Thread

 
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: '14 Draft/CFB Thread Reply with quote

Since we're starting to get into this stuff on the Eagles game takeaway thread.

Here's what i got. Our OL has played surprisingly well. Clary had a competent game vs. the Eagles, Fluker is showing lots of potential, Hardwick and Rinehart have been solid. And the biggest "surprise" (not calling it a real surprise cuz i've been saying this since we signed the kid) of all, Dunlap has looked very good, really has played like an above average NFL LT.

Joe D has made quite a bit out of a OL that is really lacking talent. He's definitely a keeper IMO. As LBC said (and i have been thinking), Joe D's scheme really relies more on chemsitry and communication between the OL than it does actual talent, very dependent on guys who are very technical and have a high football IQ.

Our biggest weakness right now has been the pass rush, Freeney hasn't done anything and what could we really have expected from English/JJ...The Interior DL hasn't created the pressure that they have in the past (IIRC Liuget is still recovering). And this pass rush problem has made our DB's look pretty bad (although Cox has been shut down), specifically Wright covering DJax deep.

Right Now We got OLB, OT, OG, RB, CB as our biggest needs right now IMO.

Lets make this an actual ongoing discussion here, so our thread isn't dead for the majority of the year.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: '14 Draft/CFB Thread Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
Our biggest weakness right now has been the pass rush, Freeney hasn't done anything and what could we really have expected from English/JJ...The Interior DL hasn't created the pressure that they have in the past (IIRC Liuget is still recovering). And this pass rush problem has made our DB's look pretty bad (although Cox has been shut down), specifically Wright covering DJax deep.


I don't agree that Freeney hasn't done anything. He got the better of Lane Johnson a few times and gave Duane Brown fits. He's been generating pressure, and if he continues to do so at this rate, I think the sacks will follow. But, he could definitely use some help from the DL. That's been very disappointing.

I also disagree about Cox. He was shut down against the Eagles, but not against the Texans. Pagano started out with Cox primarily lining up against Johnson and Wright against Hopkins. But after Johnson was getting the better of Cox, they switched it up in the second half, and that's when Hopkins started getting involved. Additionally, that game highlighted the differences in how the two corners have been approaching tackling. Wright took the Jammer approach, wrapping up and making the stop. Cox, on the other hand, missed a couple tackles and generally looked hesitant like Cromartie used to do.

Unfortunately, I suspect that we won't really know what we have in either corner unless they can get some help from the scheme and pass rush. This is also true at SS. I still have no idea if Gilchrist is a boon or a burden to this team. However, even if he isn't the answer, Addae might be.. I thought he was just making the team because of his ST work, but he's been on the field a lot the past two weeks. He even got the (ceremonious) start against the Texans.

On the plus side, he's making Brandon Taylor look like a future trade chip. He seems to be the odd man out and won't get his chance to start here. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Telesco get a little more (or trade up for better) ammo in the next draft or end up with a decent player in return. With A.J. Smith in the Redskins front office, there's at least one logical trade partner.

Duffman57 wrote:
Right Now We got OLB, OT, OG, RB, CB as our biggest needs right now IMO.


That's about what I've got. I'd say that edge rusher is the top need, but considering the financials, I think that it's going to end up taking a back seat to the offensive line again. Like I mentioned in the takeaways thread...

Quote:
That puts the Chargers at $7.3M over the cap for next year, with a team made up of the current players under contract (in 2014), a rookie draft class, and a practice squad.


...and that figure doesn't include new contracts for Donald Butler, Chad Rinehart (who is playing his way into becoming a must-re-sign), or Cam Thomas. So, if I'm looking at players who are most likely to become cap casualties, the top are Clary, McClain, and Jarret Johnson. FB becomes a need, but is easy to address. We have no successor to Clary, so that would vault RG to the top need because we would need an immediate starter. [I could also see English getting cut, but the team re-investing that money back into the OLB position. The amount they save is what it took last year to land Victor Butler or Antwan Barnes.]
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Wilkieray


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda diagree on the pass rush need being our "biggest" need. I do think that there is a need there but I think that when Ingram comes back your looking at Ingram, Freeney, Leuiget and Reyes. Add another year of growth for these guys (except Freeney) and you have some guys that can get in the back field. Sure we will still need to look at OLB as a high priority but we do have talent in the pass rush department (at least on paper). I'm not saying not to take a pass rusher in the 1st but it just sounds like you guys think that we are doomed if we don't. I think we should go best player available at either (CB, OL, DT, OLB). I'd even say if there is a can't miss (future all star) SS or RB i'd go there if we are in the 20-30ish pick.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few observations:
You never have enough pass-rushers until you're four deep or more on the roster. With how much the onus in the league has shifted to favor, market around, and promote passers the single best way to combat that is to be flush with pass-rushers (it's a strategy that has allowed defenses like San Francisco, Seattle, and Chicago to maintain dominance even in the face of changing QB dynamics). Freeney, honestly, shouldn't be counted on for more than one season past this one and even that one may be reaching - when pass-rushers decline they tend to fall off a cliff not make a gradual and steady decline. Also, most edge-rushers take a year to acclimate before they're able to be depended on in a full capacity. Better to have the guy and only need him in spot-duty early than to be forced into throwing him out there when he's not ready and having him a liability in several aspects of the game for it.

Pass-rush is more important than any DB position because quality at the former will always mask deficiencies in the later. A team can look like an elite unit with very average corners if they have dependable safety play and consistent, good pass-rush.

I don't advocated spending 1st round picks on interior OL unless they're capable of playing center (2nd most important OL position in my estimation) - though there don't look to be any prospects of that caliber in this upcoming class (and it's becoming a dying breed in the NCAA anyway). That said, on Day Two I'd advocate bringing in the best OL prospect that fits our style of play period. If it's an RT and he pushes Fluker to RG replacing Clary, then so be it. If it's a pure guard and that means we ride another year with Dunlap at LT, so be it - improving the quality on the line will make his job easier in the long haul. If it means drafting Hardwick's eventual successor (since Molk is no longer on the roster) and letting him deputize at one of the guard spots for a year like Eric Wood, Alex Mack, and both Pouncey brothers did, that's fine.

Developmental QB's are fairly pointless. Sorensen looks like he can eventually take over Clippy's backup spot, but very rarely do you see a developmental QB rise to become a guy a franchise can build around for 10 years - and even those are the kinds that require investments of high Day 2 picks in order to nab.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that the draft board is going to dictate which needs they address in Days 1 and 2 and in what order. I wasn't a big fan of taking an O-Lineman in the first last year, but in retrospect, I'm glad that they didn't take Star. Teams were picking OL much earlier than scouts and fans were predicting, and had Telesco waited until Round 2, he would have been out of luck. Additionally, the Te'o trade up allowed them to get the jump on a run on ILBs, including the Cards with our original pick. For good measure, Allen was taken during a short run on WRs in the third, though he may have been the BPA regardless. Telesco deserves credit for having a sense of what other teams were going to do and avoiding being left in the dust.

However, Day 3 is less likely to be that way. Telesco used the picks that day to target role players and backups rather than take riskier picks and hope for a starter. If he continues that trend, we could see them address lesser needs, such as:
- FB (I suspect that the plan is to have a rookie compete with Gronkowski next offseason)
- RB (although we might like to land a Ryan Mathews replacement, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up only being able to grab a Ronnie Brown replacement instead)
- KR/PR (our setup is servicable for now, but a return specialist makes a lot of sense to address)
- OT (if Clary leaves, our depth takes another hit; they need another candidate who can backup at least one tackle spot)
- C/G (our depth is awful in the interior; if they can't get Hardwick's successor early, they could draft a C late to bolster the depth while also hoping they get lucky)
- DE/DT (Scafe returns next year, but we could probably use some more depth)
- DE/OLB (though they drafted Tourek Williams last year, he hasn't shown much so far, and they could look to draft and develop another pass rush specialist)
- FS (not a Weddle replacement, but although Stuckey works as a gunner, I'm not sure I want to see him starting if something happened to Weddle)
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LBC what do you think of Za'Darius Smith. He looks like EXACTLY the type of pass rusher that you're talking about. If he comes out, he has a great chance to get picked high.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
LBC what do you think of Za'Darius Smith. He looks like EXACTLY the type of pass rusher that you're talking about. If he comes out, he has a great chance to get picked high.

I need to see more tape on him to get a feel for where his technical deficiencies are, and which ones are correctable with proper development and coaching and which aren't, but he strikes me as a slightly lighter version of Zeke Ansah who may or may not (again, haven't seen a large enough sample size to judge) have the questionable motor/conditioning issues that also come with being relatively new to football that Ansah has.

If he checks out and tests well though, he's a great stash and develop kind of guy though. Stick him behind Freeney for a year, occasionally allow us to kick Ingram to ILB to replace Te'o on 3rd and long or nickel packages to spice things up.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
If he checks out and tests well though, he's a great stash and develop kind of guy though. Stick him behind Freeney for a year, occasionally allow us to kick Ingram to ILB to replace Te'o on 3rd and long or nickel packages to spice things up.


If they're planning on being creative with how Ingram lines up, then edge rusher will definitely be a double-dip need. This last game did a great job of showing how unprepared we are if Freeney can't deliver. He got shut out against the Titans, the other team was running the ball well, and that led to a lot of playing time for Larry English. That's just not good enough.
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