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Week 3: Bucs (0-2) @ Pats (2-0)
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8650
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is, it's hard to articulate the difference between a good OC translating to a good head coach. Norv Turner and ken Whisenhunt may be the best OC's in the NFL. But they failed as Head Coaches.

Whisenhunt failed to find himself a franchise QB after Warner retired.
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BucBall_76


Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 1048
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
yeah we need to get a real coach...not these "unknowns"

Raheem-DB coach promoted to Head coach and was way too young
Shiano-College coach that still tries to run everything like its the NCAA


forget all that mess. get us an NFL coach that has been in the league and has experience. I still regret us letting Gruden go. He may have always got QB's that were way too old but at least we were a competitive team under him..


I dunno man, after the super bowl it seemed like we were destined to be a mediocre team under Gruden. kinda in no mans land, not elite, and not bottom of the barrel. he loved filling holes w/ patchwork veterans off the scrap heap rather than develop talent. Like Warren Sapp said, winning the SB w Brad Johnson made gruden think he do the same thing w/ any veteran.
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Lil' Shorty


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3699
Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
Lil' Shorty wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
yeah we need to get a real coach...not these "unknowns"

Raheem-DB coach promoted to Head coach and was way too young
Shiano-College coach that still tries to run everything like its the NCAA


forget all that mess. get us an NFL coach that has been in the league and has experience. I still regret us letting Gruden go. He may have always got QB's that were way too old but at least we were a competitive team under him..

I guess you would say that college coaches David Shaw and Kevin Sumlin are also unknowns with no experience? While Sumlin has never been in the NFL his offenses could really be something in the NFL. He would be a bit of an unknown compared to Shaw who has coached in the NFL.

Shaw has coached with the Eagles, Raiders, and Ravens and been a Quality Control, QB coach and WR coach. He knows how the NFL works and is a well respected leader who developed Andrew Luck and though offensive minded, fields a great defense on a regular basis. Though it is a 3-4 I do think we have the personnel for it if he chose to implement it in Tampa. McCoy and Clayborn would be the DEs and Spence could add 10 lbs and be the NT. Watson would be the rush LB and Foster and David would be the middles with Casillas on the other side. The question for me is if he would come to the NFL after apparently re-uping his contract with Stanford last year. My gut leads me to thinking he will stay in college but with the team we have already assembled and a potential franchise QB of his choice, it might be too tempting to pass up.

Jay Gruden or Pete Carmichael are other names that are currently in the NFL but I dont know if Im sold on them. Someone wanna explain your reasoning for either of those guys to help convince me? And please say more than they are currently in the NFL.



I like Jay Gruden so I'll lobby for his candidacy. First, Jay played the position of QB in Div I and arena league later became a very successful head coach in the Arena League. Yeah, I know the arena league, big deal right? The one good thing about the arena league I find it makes a QB have to read progressions quickly.

Later, he was on Jon's staff here in Tampa as an offensive assistant. So at least, the Glazers have somewhat a familiarity with him. However, the most important attribute I believe is that he has a proven track record of developing and implementing an offense for a rookie QB. I like Andy Dalton, but I would hardly classify him as elite. Gruden has been OC for Dalton's entire career and architect of the offense. I would assume Marvin gives him a lot of autonomy creating and implementing the offense. If there is a coaching change, I want a guy who has proven the ability to develop a young QB. Keep in mind, Dalton wasn't that highly thought of coming out of TCU because he lasted till the second round. I believe Gruden would be an excellent choice.

I like all your points and can find myself agreeing with all of them. Especially the developing an average college QB to be a solid starter in the NFL. What kind of offense does Jay run btw? West coast like Jon? Whatcha think about his offense not just developing QBs. I'm sure if we get Jay we will probably be the first organization in history to hire two brothers as HCs at different times. Haha. I wonder if he can develop talent and get a good DC in here or is he just a good offensive mind. I'm not really a fan of Carmichael or Roman. Those guys just don't look the part of HC in the NFL. To me they just seem like coordinators. But that's just me. I'm sure the new GM would have to feel some sorta way about the next HC, it's not all gonna be on the owners like in Dallas.
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96BucsBallin wrote:
Only our team would lose by having an non reviewable play reviewed.
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 3102
Location: Leola
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is a cleaning house at the end of the year, I would be shocked if the organization goes with another defensive mind as head coach especially considering the uncertainty at QB. As for my choice Jay Gruden, sure his last name I think would help limit the angst towards a new head coach. I believe Jay's offense is somewhat geared towards West Coast principles, but Dalton has a very respectable 6.84 yds/pass for his career.

Below is an excerpt I found from Jon Gruden's Wikipedia page. I sure hope Joel Glazer remembers this quote has continues to evaluate this season and make necessary decisions at the end of the year.



In an interview with Ira Kaufman of The Tampa Tribune on March 28, 2007, Bucs executive vice president Joel Glazer discussed the state of the Bucs. During the interview, Joel Glazer defended Gruden's performance, citing lost draft picks, injuries, and salary cap issues. However, he also said "Mediocrity will never be standard for the Buccaneers, but we have to move on."[12]

I would have settled for mediocrity the last five years Joel. At least our team would have at least been somewhat relevant. Twisted Evil
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Lil' Shorty


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 3699
Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
If there is a cleaning house at the end of the year, I would be shocked if the organization goes with another defensive mind as head coach especially considering the uncertainty at QB. As for my choice Jay Gruden, sure his last name I think would help limit the angst towards a new head coach. I believe Jay's offense is somewhat geared towards West Coast principles, but Dalton has a very respectable 6.84 yds/pass for his career.

Below is an excerpt I found from Jon Gruden's Wikipedia page. I sure hope Joel Glazer remembers this quote has continues to evaluate this season and make necessary decisions at the end of the year.



In an interview with Ira Kaufman of The Tampa Tribune on March 28, 2007, Bucs executive vice president Joel Glazer discussed the state of the Bucs. During the interview, Joel Glazer defended Gruden's performance, citing lost draft picks, injuries, and salary cap issues. However, he also said "Mediocrity will never be standard for the Buccaneers, but we have to move on."[12]

I would have settled for mediocrity the last five years Joel. At least our team would have at least been somewhat relevant. Twisted Evil

I hope they remember that. I don't like the whole West Coast offense thing tho. I honestly think the NFL is moving away from that and more toward gaining a lot of yards per pass. The West Coast system just doesn't sit right with me. Also, if you remember Chip Kelly was our #1 choice in 2012. Chip is innovative and has a big play offense that should put points on the board. With the Glazers being innovative and knowing all about that cuz if being on the top with Man U I definitely think that kinda thing interests them. I would not be surprised if they brought in a college guy who could be the next big thing, but on the offensive minded side. And regardless of who we hire, assuming we clean house, a franchise QB would do wonders for the organization.
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96BucsBallin wrote:
Only our team would lose by having an non reviewable play reviewed.
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