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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8152
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
There may be questions about Manziel off the field, but for him to shred a Saban defense a second time around is a pretty impressive accomplishment. It will be interesting to see where he gets drafted.


That may be true, but Tebow shredded a Bama defense in the past as well.

I like Manziel, but I do wonder how his game translates. It seems when his first option breaks down, he's too quick to pull it down and run. It's the ability to drop back and go through progressions.

No doubt he's an exciting player to watch at the college level, but that doesn't mean it translates to the NFL.


I believe he could be very effective in an offense that was run by the Skins last year. Interestingly, Manziel has a career completion percentage of 68% and a 3:1 TD/Int ratio. His YPA is over 8.5 for his career. Not to mention he is playing plenty of SEC defenses.

My initial reaction about Manziel like most is the guy is a punk and won't make it in the NFL. However, first there have been a lot of bumholes who have played QB in the NFL. Certainly you don't have to be a good guy to win. Also, let's face it, the NCAA is such a hypocritical farce it is ridiculous. The guy looks to be a fierce competitor on the field and I have read no reports of him being a lousy teammate. I certainly believe he has better throwing mechanics then Tebow and much better release.


the thing with Manziel is the thing I'm still questioning with RG III: You cannot play that style forever.

RG III struggled a bit having to settle in as a Drop Back and read the defense type QB on Monday. Was some if it rust? Possibly. But he didn't look comfortable in the pocket.

Manziel isn't a pocket passer either. Look at Vince Young. That may work in year 1. It's how you transition into a QB.

The Packers thought they could contain Kap by defending his running ability. However, he's the perfect example of a dual threat. He can shred you in the pocket, on the run throwing, boot legs, and with his feet.

Same with Wilson.

Manziel would GREATLY benefit coming back for his Jr year to develop that aspect of his game. He's too quick to tuck it and run. His arm strength is still a question at the NFL level and him running around in the pocket to buy time won't work in the NFL either. It's good when things break down, but can't just be a "1 look QB" then tuck it in and run.
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Lil' Shorty


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leadkills wrote:
Mariota's mechanics are soooo good, he's known for his ability to do the option, but I feel like he has the ability to do the drop back like a regular qb.

Yep! I assume Bridgewater and Boyd will got top 5 and if Mariota comes out he will be a little later in the 1st. Honestly he is the most reasonable top QB for us to land based on how much we would have to trade. He reminds me of Collin Kap. I think Mariota is more of a quiet leader but sounds so mature when he talks and is very devoted to getting better. He has the biggest upside IMO but will still need a lil work once in the NFL.

But...IS SCHIANO TOO OLD SCHOOL to ever draft a QB that payed in the spread or that can run? I really hope not cuz it's the way the NFL is going so hopefully he adapts or we will be held back.
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Lil' Shorty


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:

Like I said, look at Washington in 2012. The ONLY REASON they were able to make that trade was because St. Louis was sold on Bradford and used the pick to get ammo to build around him.


Truth.

What would be incredibly ideal is for a team with a young quarterback they like to get that pick (highly unlikely), someone like the Redskins or the Dolphins. That way, the second they get that pick they will be fielding offers. Even then, they will be looking at Clowney anyway.

A RG3 trade up is highly unlikely at this point, I guess we have to "earn" it.

I hear what you guys are saying and quite honestly agree, but wouldn't you think that a team like Jacksonville would still be rather tempted to take 5 premium picks from us? I mean they need a lot of players and there are a few QBs in this draft that could be good along with next years draft when they would have 2 1sts and 2 2nds. Granted they would not have Teddy but heck, with all they need they could still get a franchise QB while filling a heck of a lot of needs.

I just wonder...would Schaino and Dom even think to make a move like that, knowing we are built to win now?
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He Hate Me


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our best bet is to hope there are several guys that grade out as top picks at QB. Manziel, Hundley, Boyd, Mariota, McCarron, or whoever.

Then again, that still wouldn't help much if we are picking outside of the top 15. And our FO would probably want to keep the picks and get one of those guys if they are projected top picks.

Talked myself out of my own logic.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He Hate Me wrote:
Our best bet is to hope there are several guys that grade out as top picks at QB. Manziel, Hundley, Boyd, Mariota, McCarron, or whoever.

Then again, that still wouldn't help much if we are picking outside of the top 15. And our FO would probably want to keep the picks and get one of those guys if they are projected top picks.

Talked myself out of my own logic.


I think any of those guys could honestly lead us to the playoffs. I hate Manziel but can recognize the guy is talented as heck. He's tourched Nick Saban's defense TWICE.

I wouldnt mind McCarron. He's a proven winner. Period.

I like Mariota alot too. I think he can be a stud, but I see Chip Kelly doing everything he can to land him. Vick will struggle to stay healthy and is old.

Still Winston is who I want above all else. I love that he tourched Nevada Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blake Bortles anyone? Man this next draft class for qbs could be sick.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want a QB that can look to his first read, see that he is covered, look to someone else, etc. In other words, a real quarterback.
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Calibucsfan


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its so frustrating how other Franchises are finding QB's left and right...its not like how it was 10 years ago where find a franchise QB was like finding a needle in a haystack.

San Fran with Colin Kap
Seattle with Russel Wilson
Buffalo with EJ Emanuel
Dolphins with Tanahill
Bengals with Dalton
Colts with Luck
Skins with RG3



It seems like its easy to find a franchise QB, as a matter of fact I think Bucs are 1 out of 6 teams that dont have a real franchise QB(out of all the teams I counted in my head)
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
Its so frustrating how other Franchises are finding QB's left and right...its not like how it was 10 years ago where find a franchise QB was like finding a needle in a haystack.

San Fran with Colin Kap
Seattle with Russel Wilson
Buffalo with EJ Emanuel
Dolphins with Tanahill
Bengals with Dalton
Colts with Luck
Skins with RG3



It seems like its easy to find a franchise QB, as a matter of fact I think Bucs are 1 out of 6 teams that dont have a real franchise QB(out of all the teams I counted in my head)
Dalton is not even remotely close to a franchise QB. Its still early to crown Wilson, Tannehill, Kap, and Manuel. Luck and RG3 were elite QB prospects coming out so I expect them to be nothing but franchise guys. Freeman doesn't look like he will pan out to be good but at some point we will eventually find somebody good enough.
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Lil' Shorty


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
Its so frustrating how other Franchises are finding QB's left and right...its not like how it was 10 years ago where find a franchise QB was like finding a needle in a haystack.

San Fran with Colin Kap
Seattle with Russel Wilson
Buffalo with EJ Emanuel
Dolphins with Tanahill
Bengals with Dalton
Colts with Luck
Skins with RG3



It seems like its easy to find a franchise QB, as a matter of fact I think Bucs are 1 out of 6 teams that dont have a real franchise QB(out of all the teams I counted in my head)
Dalton is not even remotely close to a franchise QB. Its still early to crown Wilson, Tannehill, Kap, and Manuel. Luck and RG3 were elite QB prospects coming out so I expect them to be nothing but franchise guys. Freeman doesn't look like he will pan out to be good but at some point we will eventually find somebody good enough.

Hopefully that is in this upcoming draft and we do whatever it takes to get our guy. Its been said multiple times but with the defense we have and the many offensive weapons, all we lack is a QB. If we had one we would be a perennial playoff contender.
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Calibucsfan


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
Calibucsfan wrote:
Its so frustrating how other Franchises are finding QB's left and right...its not like how it was 10 years ago where find a franchise QB was like finding a needle in a haystack.

San Fran with Colin Kap
Seattle with Russel Wilson
Buffalo with EJ Emanuel
Dolphins with Tanahill
Bengals with Dalton
Colts with Luck
Skins with RG3



It seems like its easy to find a franchise QB, as a matter of fact I think Bucs are 1 out of 6 teams that dont have a real franchise QB(out of all the teams I counted in my head)
Dalton is not even remotely close to a franchise QB. Its still early to crown Wilson, Tannehill, Kap, and Manuel. Luck and RG3 were elite QB prospects coming out so I expect them to be nothing but franchise guys. Freeman doesn't look like he will pan out to be good but at some point we will eventually find somebody good enough.


Ok well let me re-phrase that. Bucs are 1 out of 6 teams that do not have a good starting QB. Even thought all those guys its too early to tell if their a Franchise QB or not, their all good at least and give each one of their teams a chance to go to the superbowl
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/511614/teddy-bridgewater

I'm still hoping for this guy.
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone here have access to the all-22 game tapes? I'd be interested in taking a look at them.
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Calibucsfan


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/511614/teddy-bridgewater

I'm still hoping for this guy.


I dont see how him or Boyd will fall past Jacksonville or Cleveland(and maybe Oakland depending how good Pryor will be for them)

Only QB we would realistically have a shot of getting would be AJ McCaron in the 2nd round....

There is no way we finish worse than Jacksonville or Cleveland and there is no way they trade us spots in the draft when they need the same players we do.
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He Hate Me


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/511614/teddy-bridgewater

I'm still hoping for this guy.


I dont see how him or Boyd will fall past Jacksonville or Cleveland(and maybe Oakland depending how good Pryor will be for them)

Only QB we would realistically have a shot of getting would be AJ McCaron in the 2nd round....

There is no way we finish worse than Jacksonville or Cleveland and there is no way they trade us spots in the draft when they need the same players we do.


I doubt there are only 2 first round QBs in this draft. And at this point, McCaron is probably going to be a 1st round pick.
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