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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 5612
Location: CenCal
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
Richter wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Nihc wrote:
That Tom Brady guy isn't that talented and doesn't play an important position. McCourty and Ridley aren't that great either.


Tom Brady has never been a talented athlete. He's the greatest QB of all-time and it has nothing to do with skills and athleticism. Ridley is nothing special. He creates nothing for himself. And McCourty's talent is par to most DBs in the league. He has great work ethic and intelligence however, and that propels him

Ugh. Apparently you're not famliar with what the word "skills" means.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I think the expectations are just so high because these players wear Patriot colours. We really have been spoiled and lulled into expecting much more than we really should.


I just don't think you guys are willing to admit some things because of that reason. Brady is a laughable athlete. And his superiority on the field has nothing to do with natural talent.

I don't see how you can be an awful athlete and be drafted by 2 different pro sports leagues. To be great in any sport you need to have talent and athletcism. Brady may not be biggest fastest or strongest. But his ability to throw w/ touch, accuracy and have a fast delivery is talent. Natural ability to do a lot of what he does is talent.

patsfan25 wrote:
He seldom goes for the blue chip talented player.

what? how is it rare? Look at last few drafts. Chandler Jones was a raw player but a freakish athlete. hightower was another athletic player. Solder was again very raw but a very good athlete. People thought he was going to bust because he had so many issues but only faith people had was in Scar fixing them. Dowling was a great athlete. Not many have a combination of his size speed and overall athletcism. Gronk and Hernandez were both very athletic. Can't ignore the fact Collins has some freaky athletcism. You don'tsee someone his size jump 41 inches at the combine often.

People can say blue collar attitude of this team but there are a lot of very good athletes on this team. Just because someone works hard for what they have does not mean they aren't talented.



Which represents about .8% of the players BB has ever taken into this team. BTW, they were already acknowledged earlier in the thread.

My god, some of you will just take some sort of objective criticism in the most offensive way just because it is criticism. And stop taking my post out of context. The Patriots have an overachieving roster. Doesn't change the fact that they are one of the best teams in the league. I may look like a sheep hanging out for bait here, but a lot of posters here would agree. They're just too scared to be attacked by a pack of blood hounds.
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 5612
Location: CenCal
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
Also, Rob Ninkovich is better than Mike Vrabel ever was, and I'm pretty sure Vrabel would be considered talented. It's an unpopular opinion, but the biggest reason Vrabel is deified is because he caught passes at TE and played MLB a little bit.


This is not even close. Up to this point, Ninkovich has showed nothing close to being the player Vrabel was, despite Belichick putting him in position to.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Patriots roster isn't particularly talented but instead overachieving, I'm assuming there are a number of rosters which you deem to be more talented. Other than the obvious (though arguable) like San Francisco, I'd be curious as to what 8-10 other teams you would say are more talented than New England.
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rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Also, Rob Ninkovich is better than Mike Vrabel ever was, and I'm pretty sure Vrabel would be considered talented. It's an unpopular opinion, but the biggest reason Vrabel is deified is because he caught passes at TE and played MLB a little bit.

Bwaaah? Mike Vrabel is deified because he was productive and made big plays for winning teams, and was a pretty good pass rusher in his prime (that he lost a couple years towards after being shifted inside). He was a first team all-pro, even. I like Ninkovich, and the book is hardly closed on his career, but I'd say it's more than a little premature to say he's better than Mike Vrabel ever was.Let's see him put up a 12.5 sack season like the one Vrabel had, at least.


This may well be the year when that happens if Ninkovich continues his upward trajectory. But I take slight issue at the "big play" contention. Ninkovich has made some huge plays for the Patriots in his career as well, and he has played in far fewer playoff games than Vrabel had at the same time due to the rebuilding nature of the defense around him.

It is intriguing that Vrabel really peaked in '05-'07, when he hit 30. We'll see if Ninkovich has a similar pattern. I think he could go for 12 sacks this year though.

If he does, it will be because Jones breaks out and draws more attention on his side. And yes, I could definitely see Ninkovich hitting double digit sacks this year. I think this is going to be his career year, in fact. I still would not take him over Vrabel at this point.


And Vrabel didn't benefit from playing with the likes of McGinest and Bruschi? Vrabel and Ninkovich were/are both around the fifth best players on their respective defenses (I don't think Vrabel was better than the likes of Harrison, Bruschi, McGinest, Seymour, and Law - arguable for Asante and Warren as well.) I'd actually only put Ninkovich behind McCourty, Wilfork, and Jones in terms of importance for NE defenses. Maybe Mayo as well, but there's a reasonable argument to be made that Ninkovich > Mayo.

Also, even though it's not quite the same thing as having to play ILB instead of OLB, Ninkovich was often played out of position at SLB rather than DE and excelled.

In terms of measurables, Ninkovich and Vrabel are also around the same.

Vrabel was a very good player, but I honestly think that if you inserted Ninkovich on those teams, he could have produced the same, if not better.

And now I'm sad because I remember how freaking good our old defenses were.
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This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

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finn54


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Joined: 06 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
My god, some of you will just take some sort of objective criticism in the most offensive way just because it is criticism. And stop taking my post out of context. The Patriots have an overachieving roster. Doesn't change the fact that they are one of the best teams in the league. I may look like a sheep hanging out for bait here, but a lot of posters here would agree. They're just too scared to be attacked by a pack of blood hounds.


Alright, settle down. There's nothing wrong with posting an opinion and then having people disagree with it and refute what you're saying. I've been following this debate and I haven't seen anything out of line. If you think there's something a moderator has missed, PM a moderator and let them sort it out. Don't attack members or call them out on stuff like this.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
, but there's a reasonable argument to be made that Ninkovich > Mayo.


I didn't know you were related to Rob Ninkovich
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
, but there's a reasonable argument to be made that Ninkovich > Mayo.


I didn't know you were related to Rob Ninkovich


He's my uncle.
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Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
, but there's a reasonable argument to be made that Ninkovich > Mayo.


I didn't know you were related to Rob Ninkovich


He's my uncle.


You do look alike
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never in my life seen Mcmurtry so positive about the Pats....thanks Patsfan! Laughing

I like this version of you MM. Dancing
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Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Peter King reported Tim Tebow received an "inquiry" from an NFL team about changing positions, but he declined


https://twitter.com/evansilva/status/375769368094703616
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw that WR Kamar Aiken was released from injured reserve with an injury settlement on the NFL transactions wire.
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