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Preseason Week 4: Washington Redskins @ Tampa Bay Buccaneers
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
the gap is really not that large in pass blocking, but yes, Royster has never been a fullback so he's not a good run blocker.

On the flip side, Royster has some experience as a returner, which Keiland does not.


Irrelevant, since he won't be doing any returning. That's why Chris Thompson is on the roster.

Quote:
Here is my breakdown of the two

1. Rushing-Royster > Williams
2. Receiving =
3. Pass blocking =
4. Run blocking Williams > Royster
5. Kick off returning Royster > Williams
6. Kick coverage Williams > Royster


Receiving equal? Williams caught 39 balls with us in 2010.

Pass blocking equal? I don't recall having seen Royster pass block.

Again, returning is irrelvant. On kickoffs, the two deep men will likely be Thompson and Paul.

Quote:
I mean when you break down things, they're basically equal in my book but Royster is a more effective rusher


I guess I have a different book ...

Prior to this game, I thought Williams had stolen Royster's lunch money. Now it's going to be much harder to make that call (unless Williams gets stashed on IR).
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Royster is in no way shape or form equal to Williams pass blocking. Royster got Griffin killed a few times last year. He's far to passive in general, nights like tonight where he shows aggression he's good but he's normally far to patient.

You're just attempting to make up reasons for Royster over Williams now instead of actually listening to my argument.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Royster may have just won the 3rd RB spot due to Williams getting hurt, still not sure he showed us anything more to be honest.

Briscoe is probably gone. He's made one play as a Redskins and that was in the game today. I'd rather run 5 Wr's with Lewis and Williams on the PS.


Royster is our bell cow if Morris goes down. Helu is not an everydown back. Royster can be. This is why you have Morris, Helu and Royster with a Chris Thompson thrown in (and Williams hopefully on IR)


Counter argument is that Keiland Williams is more flexible. He can handle RB as well as FB, and plays teams. While he might not be as good a runner as Royster, I think he could have held his own in this offense.

If he's really hurt, well, it makes the decision process much easier.
Counter argument is that Keiland hasn't led the team this preseason in rushing and they are comparable in all other areas. They are virtually identical on special teams, in pass receiving and blocking. The only thing is that Royster has never played full back, but remember the team tried Keiland at full back in 201- and from what I remember it didn't go that well and he was cut. Keiland is a running back, not a full back


Yes, he was cut, and then signed on with Detroit ... as a full back.
he was listed as a running back for them, when he played when LeShore and Best were hurt- Keiland played running back in 2011
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
the gap is really not that large in pass blocking, but yes, Royster has never been a fullback so he's not a good run blocker.

On the flip side, Royster has some experience as a returner, which Keiland does not.


Irrelevant, since he won't be doing any returning. That's why Chris Thompson is on the roster.

Quote:
Here is my breakdown of the two

1. Rushing-Royster > Williams
2. Receiving =
3. Pass blocking =
4. Run blocking Williams > Royster
5. Kick off returning Royster > Williams
6. Kick coverage Williams > Royster


Receiving equal? Williams caught 39 balls with us in 2010.

Pass blocking equal? I don't recall having seen Royster pass block.

Again, returning is irrelvant. On kickoffs, the two deep men will likely be Thompson and Paul.

Quote:
I mean when you break down things, they're basically equal in my book but Royster is a more effective rusher


I guess I have a different book ...

Prior to this game, I thought Williams had stolen Royster's lunch money. Now it's going to be much harder to make that call (unless Williams gets stashed on IR).
Keiland caught 39 balls in 2010 when McNabb would check down. In Det, he had 10 receptions in 2 years. Royster was on the practice squad in 2011 until the last month of the season so he didn't get a Chance to take advantage of check down Beck like Helu did. In 2012 RG3 didn't check it down to the backs much at all, instead RG3 would run it himself.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
Royster is in no way shape or form equal to Williams pass blocking. Royster got Griffin killed a few times last year. He's far to passive in general, nights like tonight where he shows aggression he's good but he's normally far to patient.

You're just attempting to make up reasons for Royster over Williams now instead of actually listening to my argument.
I only remember him getting killed when he was asked to block one of the best DEs in the game like JPP or Ware.

I mean you're making the assumption that Keiland could block a DE that great 1on 1, and I don't agree with assumption
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markrc99


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bubble Discussions...

Wide Receiver:
I don't see Lance Lewis as competing against Dezmon Briscoe, who is more in the mold of Hankerson & Morgan. He's big, strong and has good speed. Problem for him is that both those guys in front of him look like they're ready to contribute consistently. However, Lewis doesn't possess any exceptional trait. Accordingly, Briscoe only sustained a sprain, so I would think he's still in the mix. But if the team feels they can forego the depth he'd otherwise provide, then I think they'd opt for a Skye Dawson, as everyone already knows is ultra-elusive and fast!

Running Back:
I haven't followed this position as closely but I do believe the discussion is considering the right players. Jamison & especially Thompson (according to scouting reports) is a serious threat out of the backfield, but unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen any of that. Still no screen game. Makes me wonder why they bothered to draft this type of RB when what they give you most isn't anything you're looking for. I thought these picks made perfect sense because they didn't have that player and the glaring weakness of the OL was pass-protection in known passing situations. It can be argued that Roy Helu is going to be their down & distance RB, but they haven't done anything with him in that respect either. Okay, so collectively there was what, some faith in Helu, Royster & Williams? It has to have been at least some, because if there were none, they'd of gotten rid them by now. So they draft not one, but two other RBs and are looking for them to be primarily ball-carriers?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markrc99 wrote:
Bubble Discussions...

Wide Receiver:
I don't see Lance Lewis as competing against Dezmon Briscoe, who is more in the mold of Hankerson & Morgan. He's big, strong and has good speed. Problem for him is that both those guys in front of him look like they're ready to contribute consistently. However, Lewis doesn't possess any exceptional trait. Accordingly, Briscoe only sustained a sprain, so I would think he's still in the mix. But if the team feels they can forego the depth he'd otherwise provide, then I think they'd opt for a Skye Dawson, as everyone already knows is ultra-elusive and fast!

Running Back:
I haven't followed this position as closely but I do believe the discussion is considering the right players. Jamison & especially Thompson (according to scouting reports) is a serious threat out of the backfield, but unless I'm mistaken, we haven't seen any of that. Still no screen game. Makes me wonder why they bothered to draft this type of RB when what they give you most isn't anything you're looking for. I thought these picks made perfect sense because they didn't have that player and the glaring weakness of the OL was pass-protection in known passing situations. It can be argued that Roy Helu is going to be their down & distance RB, but they haven't done anything with him in that respect either. Okay, so collectively there was what, some faith in Helu, Royster & Williams? It has to have been at least some, because if there were none, they'd of gotten rid them by now. So they draft not one, but two other RBs and are looking for them to be primarily ball-carriers?
They were concerned about Helu's injuries and when they drafted Thompson, Helu wasn't even running much. Jamison was one of the best players on the board in the 7th round when they drafted him.

It's clear that Thompson has special speed as a running back and special skills that no other running back on the roster has- even Helu. Grant Paulsen said that the team knows that Thompson is great on the outside zone running plays and the reason that Thompson wasn't asked to do that much the last two games was because they knew he could do it. They had him do it one time last game and he made one cut outside the offensive tackle and took the ball for a 10 yard gain. The offensive coaching staff had Thompson run more of the inside zone running plays (inside the tackle box) to see what he could do.

I was against that pick up until the past two weeks but the kid has made a believer out of me and proven me wrong and I have to say, I'm elated that's happened. I wanted to root for Thompson, I was just concerned because of his knee that he wasn't going to be able to make the 53 man roster, up until the last two weeks.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markrc99 wrote:
Bubble Discussions...

Wide Receiver:
I don't see Lance Lewis as competing against Dezmon Briscoe, who is more in the mold of Hankerson & Morgan. He's big, strong and has good speed. Problem for him is that both those guys in front of him look like they're ready to contribute consistently. However, Lewis doesn't possess any exceptional trait. Accordingly, Briscoe only sustained a sprain, so I would think he's still in the mix. But if the team feels they can forego the depth he'd otherwise provide, then I think they'd opt for a Skye Dawson, as everyone already knows is ultra-elusive and fast!


One advantage that Lewis has is that he can be stashed on the practice squad (I think). Briscoe certainly cannot. He's either in or out.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
markrc99 wrote:
Bubble Discussions...

Wide Receiver:
I don't see Lance Lewis as competing against Dezmon Briscoe, who is more in the mold of Hankerson & Morgan. He's big, strong and has good speed. Problem for him is that both those guys in front of him look like they're ready to contribute consistently. However, Lewis doesn't possess any exceptional trait. Accordingly, Briscoe only sustained a sprain, so I would think he's still in the mix. But if the team feels they can forego the depth he'd otherwise provide, then I think they'd opt for a Skye Dawson, as everyone already knows is ultra-elusive and fast!


One advantage that Lewis has is that he can be stashed on the practice squad (I think). Briscoe certainly cannot. He's either in or out.
From what Thai was saying in the cut thread is that Briscoe's shoulder injury is more serious than we thought and it will keep him our 4 to 6 weeks, meaning he's a prime candidate for IR. sucks for him, but it's good for us and certainly our future at WR seeing that we could lose moss and Morgan next year and Briscoe has experience starting in the NFL and experience in our offense. It certainly sucks for him though.

Lance Lewis was on IR last year, so he has two years of practice squad eligibility.

I see us keeping 5 Wrs:

Garçon
Morgan
Moss
Hankerson
Robinson

4 RBs:

Morris
Helu
Royster
Thompson

4 TEs: (3 of which have WR skills and one was drafted as a
WR and 3 of them are special teams players)

Davis (WR skills)
Paulsen (special teams)
Paul (special teams & WR skills)
Reed (special teams & WR skills)

I see them putting Lance Lewis on the practice squad for sure and possibly Nick Williams or Skye Dawson but I'm not sure they will feel the need to keep 2 wrs on the practice squad.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Pass blocking equal? I don't recall having seen Royster pass block.


Royster was pass protecting all last season. I don't disagree with the general notion that Keiland Williams is probably more versatile than Royster in terms of Special Teams, blocking, and maybe receiving, but he's such a poor runner that I frankly agree with the team keeping Royster instead. I've never liked Keiland Williams. Royster's lack of improvement in running is disappointing but he's still far better than Williams, who I consider a liability running the ball.
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