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Antonio Smith Swings Helmet at Richie Incognito
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patdt13


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@BenVolin RT @McClain_on_NFL: Antonio Smith said he thinks suspension is harsh cause he pulled back and wasn't trying to hit Incognito
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Jaytotha


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdt13 wrote:
@BenVolin RT @McClain_on_NFL: Antonio Smith said he thinks suspension is harsh cause he pulled back and wasn't trying to hit Incognito


Then why swing the helmet.....
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.


Interesting....the league and several coaches who have reviewed the tape have reported that Incognito did nothing wrong on the play....
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViolentMonk71 wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.


Interesting....the league and several coaches who have reviewed the tape have reported that Incognito did nothing wrong on the play....


Yes, very confused by your stance [b]JCool[b]... Even everyone in the NFL News thread agrees that Smith should be punished.. some think he deserves more games as well. Only Texans fans seem to disagree.

Typical trench play rough stuff is normal. Does Incognito test the limits? Absolutely. Is that even close to being the same thing as swinging a 15lbs helmet full force at someones unprotected head?
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.


Then take the baseball bat analogy. If a baseball player gets in a fight during a game, he will probably be suspended for a game. If he swings a baseball bat at someone's head, he will probably be suspended for the year. One of those things could kill or seriously maim a person. the other is pretty typical. And in Incognito's case, it was within the realm of the game, so no suspension is needed. Any NFL person who has commented on it says Incognito deserved nothing more than a 15 yard penalty.

Was it nasty? yes. Was it illegal in the context of the game? yes. Did it put Smith in any danger? no. As a football player Smith needs to control his anger better. Probably needs anger management classes. I've had my helmet grabbed like that. I've had my balls grabbed and squeezed a few times at the bottom of a pile. But I've never taken a guy's helmet off and tried to hit him with it.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.


Then take the baseball bat analogy. If a baseball player gets in a fight during a game, he will probably be suspended for a game. If he swings a baseball bat at someone's head, he will probably be suspended for the year. One of those things could kill or seriously maim a person. the other is pretty typical. And in Incognito's case, it was within the realm of the game, so no suspension is needed. Any NFL person who has commented on it says Incognito deserved nothing more than a 15 yard penalty.

Was it nasty? yes. Was it illegal in the context of the game? yes. Did it put Smith in any danger? no. As a football player Smith needs to control his anger better. Probably needs anger management classes. I've had my helmet grabbed like that. I've had my balls grabbed and squeezed a few times at the bottom of a pile. But I've never taken a guy's helmet off and tried to hit him with it.


Ditto!!!! There is no excuse for brandishing a weapon against another person with the exception of self defense or sanctioned warfare, and neither applies in football.
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.


Then take the baseball bat analogy. If a baseball player gets in a fight during a game, he will probably be suspended for a game. If he swings a baseball bat at someone's head, he will probably be suspended for the year. One of those things could kill or seriously maim a person. the other is pretty typical. And in Incognito's case, it was within the realm of the game, so no suspension is needed. Any NFL person who has commented on it says Incognito deserved nothing more than a 15 yard penalty.

Was it nasty? yes. Was it illegal in the context of the game? yes. Did it put Smith in any danger? no. As a football player Smith needs to control his anger better. Probably needs anger management classes. I've had my helmet grabbed like that. I've had my balls grabbed and squeezed a few times at the bottom of a pile. But I've never taken a guy's helmet off and tried to hit him with it.


I can accept that argument- you're right. I still think Incognito was clearly out of line in terms of provoking it, and if it weren't for the loads of bureacracy and political niceties that the NFL has to deal with, in other words, if this were a schoolyard fight, Incognito would deserve punishment. But I guess the NFL isn't trying to be fair- they're trying to prevent injuries and serious outbursts.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
JCool333 wrote:
I think this whole punishment is ridiculous. Both clearly hit each other, both clearly were involved. I think they were just both heated and it should be ignored- these kinds of rivalries and hatred in the trenches is part of why I love watching football. And if they want to punish, obviously Incognito deserves it too.


So if Smith pulled a knife out and tried to stab Incognito, that would be OK? You have to draw a line somewhere, and what Incognito did happens every single football game. What Smith did was tear a helmet off and try to hit a player in the head with it. It could have cracked his skull.

That's like saying, fights are part of Baseball, so who cares if the guy swung a baseball bat at someone.


A knife is an awful analogy. What Incognito did was clearly over the top, give me a break. He grabbed his face under the mask and wouldn't let go even after the play. And it's not as if what Smith did resulted in any damage.

If you want to say that both should be punished, well, I can get behind that even though I disagree. But if you want to say that only Smith should, then you've gotta take the aqua/teal/whatever color it is these days and orange glasses off and look at this objectively.


Then take the baseball bat analogy. If a baseball player gets in a fight during a game, he will probably be suspended for a game. If he swings a baseball bat at someone's head, he will probably be suspended for the year. One of those things could kill or seriously maim a person. the other is pretty typical. And in Incognito's case, it was within the realm of the game, so no suspension is needed. Any NFL person who has commented on it says Incognito deserved nothing more than a 15 yard penalty.

Was it nasty? yes. Was it illegal in the context of the game? yes. Did it put Smith in any danger? no. As a football player Smith needs to control his anger better. Probably needs anger management classes. I've had my helmet grabbed like that. I've had my balls grabbed and squeezed a few times at the bottom of a pile. But I've never taken a guy's helmet off and tried to hit him with it.


I can accept that argument- you're right. I still think Incognito was clearly out of line in terms of provoking it, and if it weren't for the loads of bureacracy and political niceties that the NFL has to deal with, in other words, if this were a schoolyard fight, Incognito would deserve punishment. But I guess the NFL isn't trying to be fair- they're trying to prevent injuries and serious outbursts.


I think if you just took the NFL out of the whole equation and thought that if this happened in a High School or NCAA game, the outcome would still be a punishment for Smith and nothing much for Incognito except an unsportsmanlike penalty perhaps.

It's not unheard of for Olinemen to unintentionally get a hand under a Defenders facemask.......and once that hand is there it's impossible for an official to see what the fingers are doing to the face.
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JCool333


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:

I think if you just took the NFL out of the whole equation and thought that if this happened in a High School or NCAA game, the outcome would still be a punishment for Smith and nothing much for Incognito except an unsportsmanlike penalty perhaps.

It's not unheard of for Olinemen to unintentionally get a hand under a Defenders facemask.......and once that hand is there it's impossible for an official to see what the fingers are doing to the face.


I don't think anyone would be punished in high school. No flags were thrown and a ref was right there. Only in the NFL do plays go under such careful consideration after the fact.

And it's not about HS vs. NFL. I'm saying that in terms of pure fairness, no part of me doubts that Incognito provoked Smith's reaction and that Incognito is just as big a part of this altercation as Smith. I agree with the punishment difference as far as the NFL is concerned but in terms of fairness, Incognito probably brought that reaction on himself. Maybe not only on that play (though on that play he certainly got away with a penalty), but throughout the course of the game. I'm not arguing about the penalty at this point, just saying it's definitely unfair but the world's an unfair place, I guess.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCool333 wrote:
green4gulf wrote:

I think if you just took the NFL out of the whole equation and thought that if this happened in a High School or NCAA game, the outcome would still be a punishment for Smith and nothing much for Incognito except an unsportsmanlike penalty perhaps.

It's not unheard of for Olinemen to unintentionally get a hand under a Defenders facemask.......and once that hand is there it's impossible for an official to see what the fingers are doing to the face.


I don't think anyone would be punished in high school. No flags were thrown and a ref was right there. Only in the NFL do plays go under such careful consideration after the fact.

And it's not about HS vs. NFL. I'm saying that in terms of pure fairness, no part of me doubts that Incognito provoked Smith's reaction and that Incognito is just as big a part of this altercation as Smith. I agree with the punishment difference as far as the NFL is concerned but in terms of fairness, Incognito probably brought that reaction on himself. Maybe not only on that play (though on that play he certainly got away with a penalty), but throughout the course of the game. I'm not arguing about the penalty at this point, just saying it's definitely unfair but the world's an unfair place, I guess.


yes, there is bad blood between both of those players that goes back to last season. And we have seen from the bar fight that Incognito likes to provoke people. (Or at least has a tendency to have a lot of people that want to take a swing at him)
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As per ESPN; Smiths suspension is upheld in spite of his appeal. He stands to lose $400,000 in salary.

This suddenly looks like a much more serious punishment than before when considering the salary loss.

Still appropriate IMO.
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Dolphinemidget


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont get peoples logic, so if I say shoot me and a person shoots me, they shouldnt be charged with murder or manslaughter? Smith should get the hammer on this and anything less then 4 games and about 25K is kiddie gloves.
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