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Packers RB DuJuan Harris is out for the season; Goes on I.R.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
PackFan4Life wrote:
spilltray wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
As far as RBs on the roster? I'd keep Lacy, Franklin, and Green only. I don't see the value in keeping Starks at all.
So then when Lacy needs a breather or is banged up, then you would be perfectly content with passing the ball almost every play. We know Green has terrible vision, he can maybe run some draws and out of the shot gun but he can not run as a single back with Rodgers under center. And so far Franklin has shown nothing. Starks and Lacy are the best/only natural runners of the group. I see a lot of value in keeping Starks.


I see no value in keeping a guy who has managed to be available for 22 out of 48 games in his 3 seasons. Lacy can get a breather while running some spread sets with Green, and quite frankly, won't be getting enough carries to really need that anyway. If he gets banged up and is going to miss any time, I have absolutely zero faith in Starks ability to stay a healthy backup option.


Do you really think anyone really cares how much faith someone does or does not have in something like that versus what they can offer and have proved to offer prior in their career. At some point you need to understand he is not costing you anything to keep on the roster and your only other option is to start trolling the waiver wire during the season or another PS for someone that does not know the offense and is not costing you much less anyway.


He's costing a roster spot. Yes I think if a guy can't stay healthy it effects their value. That's one of the things he's proven. He can't stay on the field. Dujuan Harris was one of those "trolling the waiver wire" pickups. RBs can be replaced easier than any other position and it doesn't make sense to me to carry a 4th who hasn't been able to stay on the field at any point in his NFL career, or even his college one.


It also took most of the season to find that waiver wire pick up. Time value of money says you keep the commodity that is going to be ready to give it a go if Lacy goes down and then you troll the waiver wire for someone that might be able to step up should Starks get hurt again. The roster spot Starks takes is definitely justifiable given the Harris circumstance, and I was not in favor of keep him prior to the injury. The circumstances have changed and it is obvious you cannot get past that this time.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 2608
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.


I think Green and Franklin can both be serviceable if the OL can open up any holes. The backup lines they've been playing behind don't really do them any favors. The handful of times I've seen them get snaps with the 1s in padded practices, they both look better than we've seen in preseason games. I think the fact that there is more reason to hope they can both be available makes them both better options than carrying Starks on the 53 man roster.

edit for the bold:
Show me any stretch in his NFL career where he's shown he can produce with several solid games in a row. I don't see it. Here this will help.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesstarks/497206/gamelogs
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SDN40


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM had some plans for Harris, thats what is going to hurt the most. Dont know if those plans were packages specific to Harris' skill set or what. No one else on the roster brings what Harris does. You could tell that MM really liked him. That being said, if Lacy can be effective, he also brings a unique set of skills to the table. I wonder what type of power packages will be put together to enhance Lacy. At the end of the day, its MM's job to put together the packages and plays that will allow the players left standing to be successful.
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squire12


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.


I think Green and Franklin can both be serviceable if the OL can open up any holes. The backup lines they've been playing behind don't really do them any favors. The handful of times I've seen them get snaps with the 1s in padded practices, they both look better than we've seen in preseason games. I think the fact that there is more reason to hope they can both be available makes them both better options than carrying Starks on the 53 man roster.

edit for the bold:
Show me any stretch in his NFL career where he's shown he can produce with several solid games in a row. I don't see it. Here this will help.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesstarks/497206/gamelogs


Here you go, from the above site.
Rush Yards Avg Long
23 123 5.3 27
25 66 2.6 13
22 74 3.4 16
11 52 4.7 14
12 57 4.8 17
9 85 9.4 40
11 5 0.5 8
13 63 4.8 22
12 40 3.3 11
13 49 3.8 15
13 75 5.8 20
13 66 5.1 20
13 63 4.8 15
11 38 3.5 20
4 19 4.8 12

Total of 15 games: 205 carries for 875 yards, 4.26 average

Let me know if you want to know what games these are from.
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Revel8


Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 1297
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.



It's a difficult decision, but Starks is the only RB left who actually has shown the ability to take over for Harris. Starks is a better replacement than Green or Franklin, but Starks is probably much more likely to get injured. This will be a tough decision for the front office.

As long as Lacy is healthy though, it shouldn't be too much of a factor.
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Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
It sounds like McCarthy had built a big part of his offense this year around Harris's skill set. He seemed far more devastated about this loss than he has about others in the past, including far better, more proven players. This is another big preseason loss.


Was talking about this with my wife tonight at dinner. Hope like hell Franklin gets some high grade reps in sooner rather than later. Was a great point though, RS.


Ah man so season's over? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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spilltray


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.


I think Green and Franklin can both be serviceable if the OL can open up any holes. The backup lines they've been playing behind don't really do them any favors. The handful of times I've seen them get snaps with the 1s in padded practices, they both look better than we've seen in preseason games. I think the fact that there is more reason to hope they can both be available makes them both better options than carrying Starks on the 53 man roster.

edit for the bold:
Show me any stretch in his NFL career where he's shown he can produce with several solid games in a row. I don't see it. Here this will help.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesstarks/497206/gamelogs


Here you go, from the above site.
Rush Yards Avg Long
23 123 5.3 27
25 66 2.6 13
22 74 3.4 16
11 52 4.7 14
12 57 4.8 17
9 85 9.4 40
11 5 0.5 8
13 63 4.8 22
12 40 3.3 11
13 49 3.8 15
13 75 5.8 20
13 66 5.1 20
13 63 4.8 15
11 38 3.5 20
4 19 4.8 12

Total of 15 games: 205 carries for 875 yards, 4.26 average

Let me know if you want to know what games these are from.


I don't consider that a solid stretch. I consider that completely mediocre. There are a couple nice games in there, along some pretty meh ones and a few poor ones, and that is the only significant stretch in his career where he has even been healthy. In addition, that's the 2010 postseason and 2011 regular season where Rodgers was going God Mode and I know from watching those games first hand that the running game, Starks included was pretty disappointing after flashing in the 2010 playoff run.
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MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 8252
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.


I think Green and Franklin can both be serviceable if the OL can open up any holes. The backup lines they've been playing behind don't really do them any favors. The handful of times I've seen them get snaps with the 1s in padded practices, they both look better than we've seen in preseason games. I think the fact that there is more reason to hope they can both be available makes them both better options than carrying Starks on the 53 man roster.

edit for the bold:
Show me any stretch in his NFL career where he's shown he can produce with several solid games in a row. I don't see it. Here this will help.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesstarks/497206/gamelogs


Total of 15 games: 205 carries for 875 yards, 4.26 average
I'll take that all day for a back up running back. Then we look at Alex Green, and his whopping 3.4 ypc and Johnathan Franklin who has no carries in a real game and has looked below mediocre at best so far. I think we need to keep Starks for our running game. We aren't asking him to be the bell cow like years past, just come in and take 5-8 carries a game tops.
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RashaanSalaami


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kampman74 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
It sounds like McCarthy had built a big part of his offense this year around Harris's skill set. He seemed far more devastated about this loss than he has about others in the past, including far better, more proven players. This is another big preseason loss.


Was talking about this with my wife tonight at dinner. Hope like hell Franklin gets some high grade reps in sooner rather than later. Was a great point though, RS.


Ah man so season's over? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


Also a ridiculous statement. We need this defense to play like a top 10 defense though.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RashaanSalaami wrote:
Kampman74 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
It sounds like McCarthy had built a big part of his offense this year around Harris's skill set. He seemed far more devastated about this loss than he has about others in the past, including far better, more proven players. This is another big preseason loss.


Was talking about this with my wife tonight at dinner. Hope like hell Franklin gets some high grade reps in sooner rather than later. Was a great point though, RS.


Ah man so season's over? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


Also a ridiculous statement. We need this defense to play like a top 10 defense though.


i might very well be wrong, but i read that as "season's over [for Harris]?"
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Kampman74


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 7568
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
Kampman74 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
It sounds like McCarthy had built a big part of his offense this year around Harris's skill set. He seemed far more devastated about this loss than he has about others in the past, including far better, more proven players. This is another big preseason loss.


Was talking about this with my wife tonight at dinner. Hope like hell Franklin gets some high grade reps in sooner rather than later. Was a great point though, RS.


Ah man so season's over? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


Also a ridiculous statement. We need this defense to play like a top 10 defense though.


i might very well be wrong, but i read that as "season's over [for Harris]?"


No its me freaking out like I usually do when something bad happens, I gotta get over that.
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RashaanSalaami


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kampman74 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
Kampman74 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
It sounds like McCarthy had built a big part of his offense this year around Harris's skill set. He seemed far more devastated about this loss than he has about others in the past, including far better, more proven players. This is another big preseason loss.


Was talking about this with my wife tonight at dinner. Hope like hell Franklin gets some high grade reps in sooner rather than later. Was a great point though, RS.


Ah man so season's over? Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


Also a ridiculous statement. We need this defense to play like a top 10 defense though.


i might very well be wrong, but i read that as "season's over [for Harris]?"


No its me freaking out like I usually do when something bad happens, I gotta get over that.


No freakout necessary. We'll be fine as long as Lacy can be a reasonably productive back.

And our defensive improves to play up to its talent level.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
squire12 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I completely disagree. The very fact that Starks hasn't shown any ability to stay on the field makes him a WORSE insurance policy in case something happens to Lacy. You are more likely to end up with Starks already hurt or getting hurt shortly after if Lacy were to go down. Add that to the fact that we've seen almost no growth or progression since Starks has gotten here, and I really don't see the value of keeping him on the roster spot, just because he's a decent runner, when healthy. His lack of all around game, and the inability to count on him to be available when needed make him a bad roster value to me, even with the injury to Harris.


So you are keeping Lacy, Green, Franklin and Kuhn? If so, and Lacy goes down for a 1-2 stretch. Franklin has shown little to nothing at the NFL level, Green has been given a chance and shown little, Kuhn is what he is and that is not a productive running game. Starks has shown to be able to produce...several very solid games. Without another option to keep on the roster at this time, he is valuable on the roster.

Now if a someone becomes available at cutdown time, then you make the upgrade, or if you find a better option aka Harris last year, you make the upgrade.



I think Green and Franklin can both be serviceable if the OL can open up any holes. The backup lines they've been playing behind don't really do them any favors. The handful of times I've seen them get snaps with the 1s in padded practices, they both look better than we've seen in preseason games. I think the fact that there is more reason to hope they can both be available makes them both better options than carrying Starks on the 53 man roster.

edit for the bold:
Show me any stretch in his NFL career where he's shown he can produce with several solid games in a row. I don't see it. Here this will help.
http://www.nfl.com/player/jamesstarks/497206/gamelogs


Here you go, from the above site.
Rush Yards Avg Long
23 123 5.3 27
25 66 2.6 13
22 74 3.4 16
11 52 4.7 14
12 57 4.8 17
9 85 9.4 40
11 5 0.5 8
13 63 4.8 22
12 40 3.3 11
13 49 3.8 15
13 75 5.8 20
13 66 5.1 20
13 63 4.8 15
11 38 3.5 20
4 19 4.8 12

Total of 15 games: 205 carries for 875 yards, 4.26 average

Let me know if you want to know what games these are from.


I don't consider that a solid stretch. I consider that completely mediocre. There are a couple nice games in there, along some pretty meh ones and a few poor ones, and that is the only significant stretch in his career where he has even been healthy. In addition, that's the 2010 postseason and 2011 regular season where Rodgers was going God Mode and I know from watching those games first hand that the running game, Starks included was pretty disappointing after flashing in the 2010 playoff run.


I guess you want your backup RB to be a clone of AP. if MM gives Lacy an average of 13 carries a game, his numbers will not be much better.
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