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Kirk Cousins: Best Backup in NFL
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:

Good points. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

What did you mean about the Browns? What happened to Weeden?


Reportedly, Jason Campbell is outplaying him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000203104/article/jason-campbell-reportedly-outplays-brandon-weeden


OhMan That is HiLaRious Laughing

I hope he wins the starting job. I'd like to see him get yet another shot, just not here. Go Jason!!

But that news makes me SO happy we have RG3+Kirk behind our Center!!...(I'd hate to be guessing like a Browns fan right now, and I'd take either one of our QB's over Campbell)
yeah, same here, but I'd still take Campbell over Grossman...
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
DCRED wrote:

Good points. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

What did you mean about the Browns? What happened to Weeden?


Reportedly, Jason Campbell is outplaying him.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000203104/article/jason-campbell-reportedly-outplays-brandon-weeden


OhMan That is HiLaRious Laughing

I hope he wins the starting job. I'd like to see him get yet another shot, just not here. Go Jason!!

But that news makes me SO happy we have RG3+Kirk behind our Center!!...(I'd hate to be guessing like a Browns fan right now, and I'd take either one of our QB's over Campbell)
yeah, same here, but I'd still take Campbell over Grossman...


I wouldn't. Grossman can actually run our offense.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:


I wouldn't. Grossman can actually run our offense.


Word.

Ecstatic that it doesn't come to that with Cousins on the team though...
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I knew that would be the reaction of a few, probably should have kept the comment to my self since JC got such a chance to prove himself in the Shanahan offense. Rolling Eyes
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my 2 cents on KC.....As you all well know I was crazy happy when we drafted Cousins in the 4th round...A backup QB that you can depend on is rare, and he came up huge for us last year... That being said, Kirk deserves a chance to play. If he proves that he can pay in this league, I think he should get an opertunity to start. He has been a true professional and a great teammate during this tough time. He never complained or winned about being behind Griff. He just went out and did his job, and steped up when we needed him. Griff will be our starter for the next ten years, and there is no reason to keep KC behind him when can obviously play.
Trading KC for picks or a player can be a win win for both the team and KC. We can always draft another late round QB to develope behind Griff. I say let the kid play!!!!!
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
Just my 2 cents on KC.....As you all well know I was crazy happy when we drafted Cousins in the 4th round...A backup QB that you can depend on is rare, and he came up huge for us last year... That being said, Kirk deserves a chance to play. If he proves that he can pay in this league, I think he should get an opertunity to start. He has been a true professional and a great teammate during this tough time. He never complained or winned about being behind Griff. He just went out and did his job, and steped up when we needed him. Griff will be our starter for the next ten years, and there is no reason to keep KC behind him when can obviously play.
Trading KC for picks or a player can be a win win for both the team and KC. We can always draft another late round QB to develope behind Griff. I say let the kid play!!!!!


Not now. You do that his final year of his contract. He has plenty of time to get a chance to start. But you got to keep a capable back up around if he is young and cheap as KC.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
Just my 2 cents on KC.....As you all well know I was crazy happy when we drafted Cousins in the 4th round...A backup QB that you can depend on is rare, and he came up huge for us last year... That being said, Kirk deserves a chance to play. If he proves that he can pay in this league, I think he should get an opertunity to start. He has been a true professional and a great teammate during this tough time. He never complained or winned about being behind Griff. He just went out and did his job, and steped up when we needed him. Griff will be our starter for the next ten years, and there is no reason to keep KC behind him when can obviously play.
Trading KC for picks or a player can be a win win for both the team and KC. We can always draft another late round QB to develope behind Griff. I say let the kid play!!!!!


Not now. You do that his final year of his contract. He has plenty of time to get a chance to start. But you got to keep a capable back up around if he is young and cheap as KC.


I agree dante. Especially since Kirk loves the opportunity to learn from Kyle and Mike and really appreciates being able to be developed by them. He has stated repeatedly that he is not going to press the issue of starting somewhere else and will enjoy playing for the Redskins for however long that is.

I agree that if we make a trade it is AFTER year 3 so that we can recoup a pick or two and his new team has him on a 1-year flyer. Makes sense for everyone.
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
After this year or after next year really doesn't matter to me, I'd just like to maximize our leverage when we can to get the best draft pick we can before we lose Cousins for nothing, because that day will happen.

I'm Glad he's considered the #1 back up by some people because as I said that's good for us should we chose to move him before we lose him for nothing, which will happen when his contract is up in the 2016 offseason.

I guess I never thought of the compensation angle before. We could wait till he becomes a free agent, hopefully he signs a big deal and then we'd receive a 3rd rounder in the 2017 NFL draft for losing Cousins in the 2016 offseason. Of course, then were talking about the 97th or later pick in the draft instead of getting a late 1st or 2nd round pick for him.


Right now with the injury to RGIII no way am I trading Cousins even for a first round pick. Also unless RGIII plays this year well AND next year without loosing any playing time Cousins for me should stay for all 4 years.

This team has been without a quality QB for way too long to screw around with this position.

And turtle let me tell you something. Aaron Rodgers was there for the taking, but we picked stone hands Carlos Rogers when we had a MAJOR need at QB. And please don't tell me that Aaron was an unknown. Many analysts had him going number one overall to SF. My point is when you have a chance to pick/keep a QB that puts your team ahead of many others you do it, and damn the picks you may get trading him when your main QB has shown a tenancy to get hurt.

That debacle with Rodgers IMO was the worse mistake Gibbs has made in his football career. he just focused on Cambell because he trade up for him and didn't adjust when he saw that the SF 49ers messed it up by picking Smith.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreeK1973 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
After this year or after next year really doesn't matter to me, I'd just like to maximize our leverage when we can to get the best draft pick we can before we lose Cousins for nothing, because that day will happen.

I'm Glad he's considered the #1 back up by some people because as I said that's good for us should we chose to move him before we lose him for nothing, which will happen when his contract is up in the 2016 offseason.

I guess I never thought of the compensation angle before. We could wait till he becomes a free agent, hopefully he signs a big deal and then we'd receive a 3rd rounder in the 2017 NFL draft for losing Cousins in the 2016 offseason. Of course, then were talking about the 97th or later pick in the draft instead of getting a late 1st or 2nd round pick for him.


Right now with the injury to RGIII no way am I trading Cousins even for a first round pick. Also unless RGIII plays this year well AND next year without loosing any playing time Cousins for me should stay for all 4 years.

This team has been without a quality QB for way too long to screw around with this position.

And turtle let me tell you something. Aaron Rodgers was there for the taking, but we picked stone hands Carlos Rogers when we had a MAJOR need at QB. And please don't tell me that Aaron was an unknown. Many analysts had him going number one overall to SF. My point is when you have a chance to pick/keep a QB that puts your team ahead of many others you do it, and damn the picks you may get trading him when your main QB has shown a tenancy to get hurt.

That debacle with Rodgers IMO was the worse mistake Gibbs has made in his football career. he just focused on Cambell because he trade up for him and didn't adjust when he saw that the SF 49ers messed it up by picking Smith.
I totally agree. I can't believe that we passed on Aaron Rodgers and I said all along that Draft Aaron Rodgers should go #1 overall.

We could have been trying to trade up to get Rodgers in 05 because we didn't think the Packers would take a Qb, but when they did, then we felt we'd take the 2nd best Qb on the board. I've seen a lot of debate about that trade and what they thought they were going to get but I don't think I've ever seen of they were focused on getting Rodgers or Campbell with the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL draft.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreeK1973 wrote:


Right now with the injury to RGIII no way am I trading Cousins even for a first round pick. Also unless RGIII plays this year well AND next year without loosing any playing time Cousins for me should stay for all 4 years.

This team has been without a quality QB for way too long to screw around with this position.


And turtle let me tell you something. Aaron Rodgers was there for the taking, but we picked stone hands Carlos Rogers when we had a MAJOR need at QB. And please don't tell me that Aaron was an unknown. Many analysts had him going number one overall to SF. My point is when you have a chance to pick/keep a QB that puts your team ahead of many others you do it, and damn the picks you may get trading him when your main QB has shown a tenancy to get hurt.

That debacle with Rodgers IMO was the worse mistake Gibbs has made in his football career. he just focused on Cambell because he trade up for him and didn't adjust when he saw that the SF 49ers messed it up by picking Smith.


+5 Laughing

Have to agree on all counts. If we can't trade KC we still had one heck of a value getting a QB who can start for a 4th round pick and having that position solid for 4 years. Alot of people underestimate what stability that brings to the whole team, knowing you have real talent and can still run your Offense if your starter goes down.
Quote:

When the Redskins prepared with Kirk Cousins under center last season, the team stayed away from the read-option offense and let Cousins run a more traditional drop-back scheme.

Morgan explained that while it may look different on the field, the offense Cousins ran was also a staple in the playbook.


These guys are going to play hard for KC if he is forced into action. They truly believe he is a leader, and Morgan said KC trusts his arm MORE than RG3.

Quote:
As a receiver, I want to say [Cousins and Griffin III] pretty much have the same type of ball. Strong arms get it there when they need it to go, he said. Of course the foot speed is a little bit different, so if the decision is a little iffy for Rob, he knows he can make some positive yards with his legs. Rob can really break the play down and create more time.

Kirk [Cousins] has more confidence in his arm, so hes going to put it in there. Kirks more like a computer; hes going to get through all four of his reads before he throws it away. Robert [Griffin III] gets through one or two of his reads and then says, Im just going to make a play myself.


http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Morgan-Compares-Kaepernick-RGIII-Cousins/39759099-4a40-4c1b-ba55-f687d5b2c0c3

And yes, getting Campbell, especially trading UP to get him, was a horrible mistake which set us back as much as any other decision in recent history. I will say that most analysts I read were of the opinion Rodgers did need some time to develop. But man did that pay off!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
TheGreeK1973 wrote:


Right now with the injury to RGIII no way am I trading Cousins even for a first round pick. Also unless RGIII plays this year well AND next year without loosing any playing time Cousins for me should stay for all 4 years.

This team has been without a quality QB for way too long to screw around with this position.


And turtle let me tell you something. Aaron Rodgers was there for the taking, but we picked stone hands Carlos Rogers when we had a MAJOR need at QB. And please don't tell me that Aaron was an unknown. Many analysts had him going number one overall to SF. My point is when you have a chance to pick/keep a QB that puts your team ahead of many others you do it, and damn the picks you may get trading him when your main QB has shown a tenancy to get hurt.

That debacle with Rodgers IMO was the worse mistake Gibbs has made in his football career. he just focused on Cambell because he trade up for him and didn't adjust when he saw that the SF 49ers messed it up by picking Smith.


+5 Laughing

Have to agree on all counts. If we can't trade KC we still had one heck of a value getting a QB who can start for a 4th round pick and having that position solid for 4 years. Alot of people underestimate what stability that brings to the whole team, knowing you have real talent and can still run your Offense if your starter goes down.
Quote:

When the Redskins prepared with Kirk Cousins under center last season, the team stayed away from the read-option offense and let Cousins run a more traditional drop-back scheme.

Morgan explained that while it may look different on the field, the offense Cousins ran was also a staple in the playbook.


These guys are going to play hard for KC if he is forced into action. They truly believe he is a leader, and Morgan said KC trusts his arm MORE than RG3.

Quote:
As a receiver, I want to say [Cousins and Griffin III] pretty much have the same type of ball. Strong arms get it there when they need it to go, he said. Of course the foot speed is a little bit different, so if the decision is a little iffy for Rob, he knows he can make some positive yards with his legs. Rob can really break the play down and create more time.

Kirk [Cousins] has more confidence in his arm, so hes going to put it in there. Kirks more like a computer; hes going to get through all four of his reads before he throws it away. Robert [Griffin III] gets through one or two of his reads and then says, Im just going to make a play myself.


http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Morgan-Compares-Kaepernick-RGIII-Cousins/39759099-4a40-4c1b-ba55-f687d5b2c0c3

And yes, getting Campbell, especially trading UP to get him, was a horrible mistake which set us back as much as any other decision in recent history. I will say that most analysts I read were of the opinion Rodgers did need some time to develop. But man did that pay off!
Hardly. It was a mistake to trade up for Campbell no doubt but that wasn't as big of a mistake as it was to sign Haynesworth and Hall to huge contracts we are still playing for, it wasn't as huge of a mistake as letting Ryan Clark go who we never really replaced, it wasn't as big of a mistake as trading for Donovan McNabb or Jason Taylor.

Jason didn't work out but let's not act like that was one of the worst decisions and set us back the most of all the horrible decisions made from 2000 till 2011. He has been a starter for all but two of his seasons in the NFL (as a rookie ans last year behind Cutler) and it looks like he has a good shot at starting for the Browns this year. He's a average Qb for sure, but people have this sour taste about him like he never was the best QB on our roster from 06 to 09 or something.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Hardly. It was a mistake to trade up for Campbell no doubt but that wasn't as big of a mistake as it was to sign Haynesworth and Hall to huge contracts we are still playing for, it wasn't as huge of a mistake as letting Ryan Clark go who we never really replaced, it wasn't as big of a mistake as trading for Donovan McNabb or Jason Taylor.

Jason didn't work out but let's not act like that was one of the worst decisions and set us back the most of all the horrible decisions made from 2000 till 2011. He has been a starter for all but two of his seasons in the NFL (as a rookie ans last year behind Cutler) and it looks like he has a good shot at starting for the Browns this year. He's a average Qb for sure, but people have this sour taste about him like he never was the best QB on our roster from 06 to 09 or something.


You may have a point about Haynesworth and Hall, since the NFL put us in cap hell after we signed them to new contracts that the NFL approved..

But we didn't spend two firsts on McScrubb or Jason Taylor so they very obviously were not as big a blunder as Campbell. I HATED Taylor for his lethargic play here but they were relatively cheap compared...And letting Ryan Clark go was not great but so what... It was Polamalu that is their star and carried their Defense

Best qb on our roster from 06-09 ain't saying much, especially compared to what we have now. That's like saying he's better than Jeff George at the end of his career, Todd Collins or Mark Brunell, who at least Crushed Dallas with two HUGE TD's to Moss...

Campbell was NOT worth 2 First-Round Picks in any event. Don't be afraid of change, sometimes it's a good thing... Yes, Grossman and Beck were Putrid, but look where we are now because they had the balls to realize JC was not the guy, and draft 2 studs when we finally had the opportunity under Shanahan
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot we used the 2006 1st to trade up to get Campbell. I guess it's on par with the McNabb and Taylor trades then IMO because they were one year rentals and cost twice as much $

Also, Ryan Clark has been a pro bowl FS several times since he left the skins. We haven't had a coverage safety as good as him since he left and then Sean passed. Yes, Polamalu is good around the line of scrimmage and making the right reads in the box, but he's not a free safety. The steelers pass D was #1 in the NFL last year even though Polamalu and Taylor a lot of the year and their best pass rushers were hobbled most of the year with injuries.
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I forgot we used the 2006 1st to trade up to get Campbell. I guess it's on par with the McNabb and Taylor trades then IMO because they were one year rentals and cost twice as much $

Also, Ryan Clark has been a pro bowl FS several times since he left the skins. We haven't had a coverage safety as good as him since he left and then Sean passed. Yes, Polamalu is good around the line of scrimmage and making the right reads in the box, but he's not a free safety. The steelers pass D was #1 in the NFL last year even though Polamalu and Taylor a lot of the year and their best pass rushers were hobbled most of the year with injuries.


Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce for me should never have left this team.

The horrid drop by Gibbs in the 2005 draft not to pick Rodgers when he was there and picked Rogers came to hunt us until last year when we got RGIII. Still think about the turmoil that decision cost us.

Without waiting for the draft he already traded a number 1 pick to move up in the first round for JC. Then we have to trade 2 number ones and a #2 to get RGIII. In retrospect that decision by Gibbs cost us.

5#1s 2 we spend for JC and 3 we spend for RGIII

2 #2s, one we spend for RGIII and one we spend Mcnuggets.

1 #3, spend on Mcnuggets.

That is just mind-boggling, especially considering we missed out on a probable HOF QB and that the first additional pick we spend on Rogers (the one we should have spend on Rodgers) is for a player who is not on the team anymore.

Lets just hope RGIII makes us all forget the above facts.

As for Rodgers needing to mature and the argument he did that behind a HOF QB in BF its total BS IMO. Push comes to shove we had Brunell who you can argue would have been a good teacher/cheerleader as Grossman was to RGIII last year.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreeK1973 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I forgot we used the 2006 1st to trade up to get Campbell. I guess it's on par with the McNabb and Taylor trades then IMO because they were one year rentals and cost twice as much $

Also, Ryan Clark has been a pro bowl FS several times since he left the skins. We haven't had a coverage safety as good as him since he left and then Sean passed. Yes, Polamalu is good around the line of scrimmage and making the right reads in the box, but he's not a free safety. The steelers pass D was #1 in the NFL last year even though Polamalu and Taylor a lot of the year and their best pass rushers were hobbled most of the year with injuries.


Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce for me should never have left this team.

The horrid drop by Gibbs in the 2005 draft not to pick Rodgers when he was there and picked Rogers came to hunt us until last year when we got RGIII. Still think about the turmoil that decision cost us.

Without waiting for the draft he already traded a number 1 pick to move up in the first round for JC. Then we have to trade 2 number ones and a #2 to get RGIII. In retrospect that decision by Gibbs cost us.

5#1s 2 we spend for JC and 3 we spend for RGIII

2 #2s, one we spend for RGIII and one we spend Mcnuggets.

1 #3, spend on Mcnuggets.

That is just mind-boggling, especially considering we missed out on a probable HOF QB and that the first additional pick we spend on Rogers (the one we should have spend on Rodgers) is for a player who is not on the team anymore.

Lets just hope RGIII makes us all forget the above facts.

As for Rodgers needing to mature and the argument he did that behind a HOF QB in BF its total BS IMO. Push comes to shove we had Brunell who you can argue would have been a good teacher/cheerleader as Grossman was to RGIII last year.
I used to feel that way about Pierce, but Fletcher is still playing while Pierce had to retire at the age of 31 because of a neck injury. Yes, we had to wait 2 years to get Fletcher, but in 05 our defense played great with LeMar Marshall in the milddle. In 06 losing Ryan Clark, injuries to the DL, Marcus Washington, and losing Arrington killed our D.

Brunnell was a better teacher than Grossman because he was a better qb. I do agree its crazy what we've done over not only the last decade but 2 to try to obtain a franchise qb. We've used 3 top 10 draft picks.

1. Heath Shuler (3rd overall in 94)
2. RG3 (2nd overall, 6th overall to trade up)

Then there were the others:

3 picks to get Brad Johnson (including 11th overall in the 99 draft), our 3rd in 99 and a 2nd in 2000. Only to have Snyder and Vinny chose Jeff George over him the next season.

4. JC [25th overall and 4th rounder in 05, 22nd overall in 06]

5. Mcnabb (2nd round pick in 2010, 4th round pick in 2011)

6. Rg3 2nd round pick in 2012, 22nd overall in 2013, 2014 1st round pick.

That's a heck of a lot of amo to give up in 20 years to find a franchise qb. Shocked

I mean its just crazy to think how our team could have looked from 1999-now if we hadn't made so many mistakes.

Instead of taking a QB who wasn't ready like Shuler or even Dilfer we could have taken McGinnest or Sam Adams in 1994.

Instead of taking the bipolar Michael Westbrook in 1995 we could have taken Warren Sapp.

Could you imagine how great our D would have been with those guys brought the 1990s and most of the 2000s? We wouldn't have signed Stubifield and wouldn't have traded for Wlikinson.

Then, if we had given more $ to sign Trent Green, how good would those 3 draft picks we gave up to get Brad Johnson have been?

If we had drafted Aaron Rodgers in 05 because we thought Green or Johnson's career was coming to a close with our top 23 pick, we wouldn't have traded up for Jason Campbell. Then, we could have taken any # of good players at the end of the 1st round of the 06 draft.

If we had Aaron Rodgers we don't need to trade for McNabb nor up for RG3.

How good would our team be if that had happened?

I guess it's hard to say, I think we would have had more chances to get more talent around the qbs over the years because we wouldn't have traded away so many picks and we possibly could have been better than we are today.
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