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Re-Draft: Anyone think we should have drafted Manti Te'o?
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Boda


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 789
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that I'm one of the only guys who is a big Te'o fan and doesn't think Arthur Brown would have been at all good for us.

Te'o constantly shows up on Notre Dame game tape and impacts the game quite frequently. Also, his INTs were the product of anticipation and a high motor that drives him to be around the ball on every play. He has great instincts.

Brown on the other hand never seems to show up on tape. Didn't really create splash plays or make a name for himself as a game changer. He is also very undersized to play the Mike in our 4-3. People get too caught up in his coverage ability, but his size and strength will be insufficient to take on the blocks that a 4-3 middle linebacker needs to. Looks like a 4-3 weak side guy or 3-4 inside guy to me.

Did you watch K-State games? Because Arthur Brown was huge on film. Sure he didn't have typical size and people used to say the same thing about others such as Zach Thomas or even more recently Lavonte David.

Plain & simple Brown knows how to play the LB position and if he played for a bigger school or was just 1 -2 inches taller most likely would have a sure fire top 10-15 pick. I don't focus too much on size especially if a guy can play which Arthur Brown can do.

Now I'm not saying that I think Te'o will be a bust because I don't I think he'll be a solid pro player or better I just think Brown or even Ogletree would have been much better fits for our defense. Ideally I would have loved to have grabbed Ogletree & Brown and just been set at our LB spots for a long time to come.
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JDBrocks


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I might be in the minority but I severely under value run support in a division that is known for being pass heavy. Pass defense should be priority one before run defense and if you can't beat your division you're not going anywhere in the nfl. A guy like Teo is probably going to be more of a liability then brown in the pass game. When the packers and lions are throwing the ball forty times per game, we won't care how strong of a run defender our MLB is. The nfl is obviously a pass oriented league and I wish the vikes would understand this belief and acquire a MLB who can get back in coverage.
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VikingsFan51


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah nobody has played a down of football yet, so who knows if we should have drafted Te'o. I'll put it another way: should the Vikings have picked DeAndre Hopkins? Or Alec Olgetree? Or Geno Smith?

Who knows.
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VikingsFan51


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I was not impressed by Arthur Brown. I think he was overrated on this board, but I guess we'll see how he pans out in the pros.
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikingsFan51 wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I was not impressed by Arthur Brown. I think he was overrated on this board, but I guess we'll see how he pans out in the pros.


I think soooo many guys get overrated on these boards. Every single year there are guys that we can't believe the Vikings passed on, and yet a year later, they are either not in the NFL, or are finishing up year one of a nondescript career. That's why I'm a big fan of letting them get some actual football under their belts before doing the whole hindsight thing.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcblack34 wrote:
VikingsFan51 wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I was not impressed by Arthur Brown. I think he was overrated on this board, but I guess we'll see how he pans out in the pros.


I think soooo many guys get overrated on these boards. Every single year there are guys that we can't believe the Vikings passed on, and yet a year later, they are either not in the NFL, or are finishing up year one of a nondescript career. That's why I'm a big fan of letting them get some actual football under their belts before doing the whole hindsight thing.


Still can't believe we passed on Dwayne Jarrett... Those idiots!
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CDub


Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikingsFan51 wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I was not impressed by Arthur Brown. I think he was overrated on this board, but I guess we'll see how he pans out in the pros.


I could agree with the "overrated" remark, but I think he still has the potential to be a good LB. Considering our needs, I would have loved to see him here. Very happy with Rhodes/CP/Floyd though.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldnt call Brown overrated as a prospect. We see this all the time with 4-3 LBs. They usually always fall relative to where they are projected to go. The Ravens took a shot on him to fit there 3-4 defense, it will be interesting. T'eo fell as well, which indicates that teams generally didnt value the MLB/ILB prospects as highly as anticipated.

Other positions (such as OL) saw a big run and that obviously impacted how the drat unfolded.

I could see Brown going on to being a similar player to Daryl Washington. Washington had similar "size" concerns coming out. Id love to have that kind of MLB in the Vikes defense. But it will have to wait until next year.
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Boda


Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcblack34 wrote:
VikingsFan51 wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I was not impressed by Arthur Brown. I think he was overrated on this board, but I guess we'll see how he pans out in the pros.


I think soooo many guys get overrated on these boards. Every single year there are guys that we can't believe the Vikings passed on, and yet a year later, they are either not in the NFL, or are finishing up year one of a nondescript career. That's why I'm a big fan of letting them get some actual football under their belts before doing the whole hindsight thing.

I think when people do redrafts this early(speaking atleast from my perspective) it's more about who we think would be better. To go off what they did in the NFL just doesn't make sense(as they haven't played a single down) and it's always easy for people to look back at down the road in a year or three and say we should have taken so and so. Where as doing it now and if you predict someone that should have been taken you have more ground to stand on.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Agreed, what is the point? Its easy to pick out players who make it in the NFL.

I always do a hindsight draft every year, immediately after the draft, simply to most accurately reflect how I valued players at the time. Anyone can look brilliant if they know how there careers play out, but to do a hindsight draft right after the fact with the players you coveted, gives us a more true indication of what we actually would have done on Draft Day. That should be what it is all about.

Just for fun, knowing that MN was going to switch to more press coverage instead of zone:

1 (23) - Xavier Rhodes, CB
1 (25) - Cordarrelle Patterson, WR
2 (52) - Arthur Brown, MLB
3 (83) - Best 1 tech. DT (tough choice between Brandon Williams, Jesse Williams and Akeem Spence)
4 (102) - Quinton Patton, WR
4 (120) - Gerald Hodges, OLB


These guys are all players that I valued highly and had higher grades then where they were taken.

Essentially this draft would have filed the MLB void long-term while ignoring the UT position long-term. But I preferred a true 1 tech player and to continue letting Ballard/Dawkins sit for a year behind KW.
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jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikingsFan51 wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
I knew Arthur Brown wouldn't be a Viking when D'Anthony Thomas dragged him 5 yards for a score. Vikings LBs can't play the run like that.


I was not impressed by Arthur Brown. I think he was overrated on this board, but I guess we'll see how he pans out in the pros.


People on FF love Brown because of his "excellent coverage skills" which is a trendy item for LBs these days. However, I would bet a lot that James Laurinaitis has a better career than Brown. IIRC, nobody praised Laurinaitis' excellent coverage ability coming out, he was called "lucky" because he had 9 INTs in one season (same lame accusation made against Te'o), and he ran SLOWER THAN TE'O at the combine. I would love to have Laurinaitis as our MLB. Tough as nails, team leader, still young. Never missed a game in his career and posted 140+ tackles the past two years, finishing 8th in the league last year.

And I see Te'o being similar to Laurinaitis, and possibly even better.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You stick a guy like Laurinaitis in the middle of a Tampa 2 based defense, youre going to continue to see QBs tear up the middle of the field against the Vikings secondary. To me, the team hasnt addressed the issue since they have been running the Cover 2. Its no secret that the Vikings have generally had a lousy pass defense since switching this scheme. It will continue to be this way until MN actually gets a MLB who can run 15 yards down field and cut off receivers in the "alley" between the two deep Safetys.

Alec Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Dayl Washington, those are the type this team needs as they have the pure athleticism to actually make those difficult coverage assignments.

As long as MN continues to run two deep safety looks, they will need a MLB who can play 15 yards away from the LOS in space.

Until we start to see team's league wide running the ball more then passing, it makes little sense to build a defense designed to stop the run first.

Additionally, a MLB with ideal athleticism is also going to help against mobile Qbs. Just look at what RGIII did to the Vikes or Kaep did to the Packers. Both the Vikes and Packers have slow LBs who simply dont have the ability to play in space. T'eo just fits the mold of a typical thumper "Ted" ILB in the 3-4.
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jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
You stick a guy like Laurinaitis in the middle of a Tampa 2 based defense, youre going to continue to see QBs tear up the middle of the field against the Vikings secondary. To me, the team hasnt addressed the issue since they have been running the Cover 2. Its no secret that the Vikings have generally had a lousy pass defense since switching this scheme. It will continue to be this way until MN actually gets a MLB who can run 15 yards down field and cut off receivers in the "alley" between the two deep Safetys.

Alec Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Dayl Washington, those are the type this team needs as they have the pure athleticism to actually make those difficult coverage assignments.

As long as MN continues to run two deep safety looks, they will need a MLB who can play 15 yards away from the LOS in space.


I didn't like Ogletree and Brown as prospects and I think Washington is a way better fit for the 3-4 as an inside linebacker. In our scheme I see him playing Will quite well but struggling at Mike.

I guess I won't change anybody's opinion, but as of now, mine won't really change either. I like a different breed of MLBs.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Nor should you change your opinion if you that is how you feel. I believe in a league where teams look to spread defenses out (3-4 WR sets) and use complex route trees to get defenders out of position, you need great athletes in the back 7 to compensate. Qbs are getting more efficient, rules are favoring offenses, and offenses are taking advantage of this.

What are defenses going to do? What is the reason for this dramatic increase in passing production? I still believe that there are a lot of teams and schemes that are more ideally suited to defend offenses from a decade ago. The Vikings included. The Bears ran the same scheme for years with mostly success, but they had a great coverage MLB in Urlacher.

Some team's can get away with having a thumper type MLB in a 4-3 scheme, but those teams dont rely so heavily on its MLB for intermediate to deep coverage assignments like the Vikes defense does.

Perhaps running more press and man will take away some of the MLBs deep coverage responsibilities.
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