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Green Bay's Top 22 for 2013 (#10) Comment!
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who is #10?
Eddie Lacy
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Datone Jones
7%
 7%  [ 3 ]
Tramon Williams
9%
 9%  [ 4 ]
James Jones
9%
 9%  [ 4 ]
JerMichael Finley
9%
 9%  [ 4 ]
Morgan Burnett
39%
 39%  [ 16 ]
Ryan Pickett
7%
 7%  [ 3 ]
Nick Perry
7%
 7%  [ 3 ]
T.J Lang
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
AJ Hawk
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 41

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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
I see Hawk's name up there. I understand his importance at some level, but in his case, there are players behind him that have years of experience in this scheme that could plug and play while not dumbing down the defense Capers wants to play. That is not the case in Burnett's position so I would not consider Hawk for quite some time on this list based on his level of production.


Not sure I agree with you on the years of experience in our scheme part. I have said before that I like our depth at ILB, but I think it is a fairly unproven and young group. Francois does have a few season in the scheme, but aside from that no one else has more than one season. Lattimore has been on the team for 2 years, but the first was at OLB. Manning is entering his 2nd season and Barrington is a rookie. Aside from Francois the experience at the backup ILB is pretty equivalent to the safety spot.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
Frank-O wrote:
Now I'm not going to say Burnett is a great player by any means, but he is one of the key guys we need to step up and take a leadership role. He's played average to good thus far, if he takes that next step, he'll be a special player in this defense.


Aside from Clay, there is no player more unreplaceable in this current defense than Morgan Burnett. The options behind him are nowhere near viable going into this year based on what we saw last year. Not enough experience in this complex defense behind Burnett in any shape or form on this roster. You take Burnett away from the equation this year, and the defense is going to be extremely dumbed down.

I am not overstating Burnett the player, but everyone arguing against Burnett is severely under rating his importance to the success of the defense going into this year. It is laughable and borderline embarrassing. If Burnett continues his assencion as a player, this defense is no longer just good enough to get the Packers to the play offs, it is good enough to topple anyone in their way towards the trophy that belongs in Titletown. That is how important his position is back there in this defense.

Someone tried making the argument against my position a couple positions back, and in the same post, destroyed his own argument. No sense is even responding to a post that makes your counterpoint for you.

Right now we have players up there that are currently back ups to the starters because well, we liked what they produced when given the opportunity. That is all well and good and I am excited about the future for those players, but they do not hold the level of irreplacability on this roster that comes close to Burnett's at this time.

I see Hawk's name up there. I understand his importance at some level, but in his case, there are players behind him that have years of experience in this scheme that could plug and play while not dumbing down the defense Capers wants to play. That is not the case in Burnett's position so I would not consider Hawk for quite some time on this list based on his level of production.


Yes Burnett is an important player, mainly because we have little to no talent behind him, but that doesn't make him a better football player. Burnett needs to step up his game this year.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 3963
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
PackFan4Life wrote:
Frank-O wrote:
Now I'm not going to say Burnett is a great player by any means, but he is one of the key guys we need to step up and take a leadership role. He's played average to good thus far, if he takes that next step, he'll be a special player in this defense.


Aside from Clay, there is no player more unreplaceable in this current defense than Morgan Burnett. The options behind him are nowhere near viable going into this year based on what we saw last year. Not enough experience in this complex defense behind Burnett in any shape or form on this roster. You take Burnett away from the equation this year, and the defense is going to be extremely dumbed down.

I am not overstating Burnett the player, but everyone arguing against Burnett is severely under rating his importance to the success of the defense going into this year. It is laughable and borderline embarrassing. If Burnett continues his assencion as a player, this defense is no longer just good enough to get the Packers to the play offs, it is good enough to topple anyone in their way towards the trophy that belongs in Titletown. That is how important his position is back there in this defense.

Someone tried making the argument against my position a couple positions back, and in the same post, destroyed his own argument. No sense is even responding to a post that makes your counterpoint for you.

Right now we have players up there that are currently back ups to the starters because well, we liked what they produced when given the opportunity. That is all well and good and I am excited about the future for those players, but they do not hold the level of irreplacability on this roster that comes close to Burnett's at this time.

I see Hawk's name up there. I understand his importance at some level, but in his case, there are players behind him that have years of experience in this scheme that could plug and play while not dumbing down the defense Capers wants to play. That is not the case in Burnett's position so I would not consider Hawk for quite some time on this list based on his level of production.


Yes Burnett is an important player, mainly because we have little to no talent behind him, but that doesn't make him a better football player. Burnett needs to step up his game this year.


Again, he is one of the top players for this year because the Pack cannot afford to do without him, they can afford to go without Shields or Heyward because they have other options that will definitely get them through large stretches of the season without dumbing down the entire defense.
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PackFan4Life


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 3963
Location: De Pere, WI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rbens06 wrote:
PackFan4Life wrote:
I see Hawk's name up there. I understand his importance at some level, but in his case, there are players behind him that have years of experience in this scheme that could plug and play while not dumbing down the defense Capers wants to play. That is not the case in Burnett's position so I would not consider Hawk for quite some time on this list based on his level of production.


Not sure I agree with you on the years of experience in our scheme part. I have said before that I like our depth at ILB, but I think it is a fairly unproven and young group. Francois does have a few season in the scheme, but aside from that no one else has more than one season. Lattimore has been on the team for 2 years, but the first was at OLB. Manning is entering his 2nd season and Barrington is a rookie. Aside from Francois the experience at the backup ILB is pretty equivalent to the safety spot.


Francois is well versed with this defense and will be plenty capable of backing up for Hawk without dumbing down the defense. The same cannot be said for the S depth behind Burnett. Completely different level of complexity between what the ILB in this scheme is responsible for versus Burnett's S spot.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
PackFan4Life wrote:
I see Hawk's name up there. I understand his importance at some level, but in his case, there are players behind him that have years of experience in this scheme that could plug and play while not dumbing down the defense Capers wants to play. That is not the case in Burnett's position so I would not consider Hawk for quite some time on this list based on his level of production.


Not sure I agree with you on the years of experience in our scheme part. I have said before that I like our depth at ILB, but I think it is a fairly unproven and young group. Francois does have a few season in the scheme, but aside from that no one else has more than one season. Lattimore has been on the team for 2 years, but the first was at OLB. Manning is entering his 2nd season and Barrington is a rookie. Aside from Francois the experience at the backup ILB is pretty equivalent to the safety spot.


Francois is well versed with this defense and will be plenty capable of backing up for Hawk without dumbing down the defense. The same cannot be said for the S depth behind Burnett. Completely different level of complexity between what the ILB in this scheme is responsible for versus Burnett's S spot.


I agree that there is not a ton of experienced depth behind Burnett, but I do not think just because Francois is behind Hawk the position is leaps and bounds ahead of the safety position. Plus if you consider Bush as a S/CB tweener he is just as well versed in the defense as Francois, maybe a little more because he has seen the field more. Now, the complexities of the position might be different, but Hawk is also the main communicator out on the field, which definitely increases his importance.

I do not want to take away from Burnett and his importance because I feel that he is important to our defense and worthy of being put/discussed at that spot, but at the same time I think that it is reasonable to discuss Hawk in/around that spot on the list.
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 6812
Location: @_G_Tom
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
Pugger wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
This is a terrible list. It got off track at 3 and it can't be fixed.


What would your list look like?

Rodgers
Mathews
Raji
Bulaga
Cobb
Tramon (trusting the coaching staffs opinion here)
Sitton
Shields
Burnett
Finley
Pickett
Hayward
Nelson


You realize that your list is not that much different than the one voted on right?

Not even close to splitting hairs here. There are clear reasons for every slot on my list--undeniable reasons.
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DavidatMIZZOU


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 8590
Location: The ZOU
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackFan4Life wrote:
Frank-O wrote:
Now I'm not going to say Burnett is a great player by any means, but he is one of the key guys we need to step up and take a leadership role. He's played average to good thus far, if he takes that next step, he'll be a special player in this defense.


Aside from Clay, there is no player more unreplaceable in this current defense than Morgan Burnett. The options behind him are nowhere near viable going into this year based on what we saw last year. Not enough experience in this complex defense behind Burnett in any shape or form on this roster. You take Burnett away from the equation this year, and the defense is going to be extremely dumbed down.

I am not overstating Burnett the player, but everyone arguing against Burnett is severely under rating his importance to the success of the defense going into this year. It is laughable and borderline embarrassing. If Burnett continues his assencion as a player, this defense is no longer just good enough to get the Packers to the play offs, it is good enough to topple anyone in their way towards the trophy that belongs in Titletown. That is how important his position is back there in this defense.

Someone tried making the argument against my position a couple positions back, and in the same post, destroyed his own argument. No sense is even responding to a post that makes your counterpoint for you.

Right now we have players up there that are currently back ups to the starters because well, we liked what they produced when given the opportunity. That is all well and good and I am excited about the future for those players, but they do not hold the level of irreplacability on this roster that comes close to Burnett's at this time.

I see Hawk's name up there. I understand his importance at some level, but in his case, there are players behind him that have years of experience in this scheme that could plug and play while not dumbing down the defense Capers wants to play. That is not the case in Burnett's position so I would not consider Hawk for quite some time on this list based on his level of production.


So if Thompson signed me tomorrow as the back-up FB, does that make John Kuhn more valuable? Because I would be a horrible FB, at any level.
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My god it must be so terrible to have three teams that consistently make the playoffs
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Blink


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
Posts: 717
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was debating between Burnett, Perry, and Finley...ended up voting Perry.

The D desperately needs another edge rusher to free up Clay. With the type of secondary we have I think it would do wonders for us as a team if we could make a few more plays in the backfield and force a few wobbly throws. Burnett is very important to our D because of lack of depth, but I think if Perry blossoms this year it will make Morgans job a whole lot easier.

Finley is a good answer as well, IMO. This offense is a nightmare to face when he is focused.
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badgers0821


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
Pugger wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
This is a terrible list. It got off track at 3 and it can't be fixed.


What would your list look like?

Rodgers
Mathews
Raji
Bulaga
Cobb
Tramon (trusting the coaching staffs opinion here)
Sitton
Shields
Burnett
Finley
Pickett
Hayward
Nelson


You realize that your list is not that much different than the one voted on right?

Not even close to splitting hairs here. There are clear reasons for every slot on my list--undeniable reasons.


Yes, everyone thinks they know what is best and their "opinions" are "un-deniable".
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 6812
Location: @_G_Tom
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
Pugger wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
This is a terrible list. It got off track at 3 and it can't be fixed.


What would your list look like?

Rodgers
Mathews
Raji
Bulaga
Cobb
Tramon (trusting the coaching staffs opinion here)
Sitton
Shields
Burnett
Finley
Pickett
Hayward
Nelson


You realize that your list is not that much different than the one voted on right?

Not even close to splitting hairs here. There are clear reasons for every slot on my list--undeniable reasons.


Yes, everyone thinks they know what is best and their "opinions" are "un-deniable".

Rodgers- Best football player in the NFL.
Mathews- All Pro at a premier position.
Raji- super rare keystone to the defense.
Bulaga- protecting the franchise's backside.
Cobb- top offensive weapon.
Tramon- the top cover guy and leader.
Sitton- pro bowl road grader.
Shields- smooth playmaking cover corner
Burnett- the lid to the defense and brain of the secondary.
Finley- opens the defense up.
Pickett- consistent run stopper and DLine leader.
Hayward- young playmaking slot corner
Nelson- best deep threat on offense
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 12174
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
Rodgers- Best football player in the NFL.
Mathews- All Pro at a premier position.
Raji- super rare keystone to the defense.
Bulaga- protecting the franchise's backside.
Cobb- top offensive weapon.
Tramon- the top cover guy and leader.
Sitton- pro bowl road grader.
Shields- smooth playmaking cover corner
Burnett- the lid to the defense and brain of the secondary.
Finley- opens the defense up.
Pickett- consistent run stopper and DLine leader.
Hayward- young playmaking slot corner
Nelson- best deep threat on offense


Just because Bulaga is the LT doesn't mean he should be above better players like Sitton, Cobb, Nelson. I think Sitton is #3 and at the very least #4. It isn't un-deniable, it is opinion. I'm sure everyone's list is undeniable to them, doesn't make anyone more right than anyone else.


And how is Raji "super rare?" The guy is someone that collapses the pocket and moves well for a big guy but he isn't this superb pass rushing NT everyone wants him to be. He is above average, nothing more/nothing less.
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badgers0821


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
Pugger wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
This is a terrible list. It got off track at 3 and it can't be fixed.


What would your list look like?

Rodgers
Mathews
Raji
Bulaga
Cobb
Tramon (trusting the coaching staffs opinion here)
Sitton
Shields
Burnett
Finley
Pickett
Hayward
Nelson


You realize that your list is not that much different than the one voted on right?

Not even close to splitting hairs here. There are clear reasons for every slot on my list--undeniable reasons.


Yes, everyone thinks they know what is best and their "opinions" are "un-deniable".

Rodgers- Best football player in the NFL.
Mathews- All Pro at a premier position.
Raji- super rare keystone to the defense.
Bulaga- protecting the franchise's backside.
Cobb- top offensive weapon.
Tramon- the top cover guy and leader.
Sitton- pro bowl road grader.
Shields- smooth playmaking cover corner
Burnett- the lid to the defense and brain of the secondary.
Finley- opens the defense up.
Pickett- consistent run stopper and DLine leader.
Hayward- young playmaking slot corner
Nelson- best deep threat on offense


Thank you for taking the time to list what each player does, it helps the people who may not know.
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 6812
Location: @_G_Tom
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
badgers0821 wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
Pugger wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
This is a terrible list. It got off track at 3 and it can't be fixed.


What would your list look like?

Rodgers
Mathews
Raji
Bulaga
Cobb
Tramon (trusting the coaching staffs opinion here)
Sitton
Shields
Burnett
Finley
Pickett
Hayward
Nelson


You realize that your list is not that much different than the one voted on right?

Not even close to splitting hairs here. There are clear reasons for every slot on my list--undeniable reasons.


Yes, everyone thinks they know what is best and their "opinions" are "un-deniable".

Rodgers- Best football player in the NFL.
Mathews- All Pro at a premier position.
Raji- super rare keystone to the defense.
Bulaga- protecting the franchise's backside.
Cobb- top offensive weapon.
Tramon- the top cover guy and leader.
Sitton- pro bowl road grader.
Shields- smooth playmaking cover corner
Burnett- the lid to the defense and brain of the secondary.
Finley- opens the defense up.
Pickett- consistent run stopper and DLine leader.
Hayward- young playmaking slot corner
Nelson- best deep threat on offense


Thank you for taking the time to list what each player does, it helps the people who may not know.

Make an argument if you disagree.
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